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Author Topic: With my Dominion Time Machine...  (Read 49622 times)

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chwhite

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 03:35:51 am »
0

Cornucopia:

Sweet set, no lie.

That's for sure!

I will say that I'm very glad Woodcutter is in the base set: having no sources of +Buy under $5 would be pretty bad IMO. I could see swapping out Spy: I like the card just fine, but it feels like it belongs in Intrigue instead, where it can combo with Swindler/Saboteur, help set off Conspirators, that sort of thing.

I'm fine with Saboteur: it's good to have a couple of those sorts of cards, and I like that it looks scary but isn't very good (except when it is!).  I'm also very happy with Bridge and Coppersmith being Throne/Kingable, and I'd say Coppersmith in particular needs that to be good enough often enough.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind an IGG that just had $1 on top.  But that's because IGG is my least favorite card in the Dominion universe by a long shot.  So anything to knock it down a peg. :P  In general I'm fine with Hinterlands' complexity, though.
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pst

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 03:53:58 am »
0

Change Masquerade so that the passing only happens if every player has at least one card in hand

I would just add "Any player with no cards in their hand gain a Copper to their hand" before the passing. If the Coppers run out, so be it, but it would fix most pins, and also the "unfairness" of one player not getting a card sometimes in a multiplayer game.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 04:48:35 am by pst »
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Davio

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 04:24:38 am »
+9

I would go back in time to say to Donald: Don't worry, we like the game anyway.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 05:15:21 am »
+31

changes are to drop the reactions from Fool's Gold and Trader...
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Davio

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 05:28:54 am »
0

Hehe, nice XKCD edit!  :D
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Grujah

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 06:14:42 am »
+1

Someone care to explain Blue Dog joke? I came across it too many times to ignore now, and have no idea what it is about.
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Morgrim7

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 06:15:28 am »
0

Someone care to explain Blue Dog joke? I came across it too many times to ignore now, and have no idea what it is about.
I don't understand it either...
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Qvist

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 06:23:02 am »
+3

Donald X. tried to explain the interaction between Ironworks and Trader with a blue dog.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=880.msg13340#msg13340
or more specifically:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7743728#7743728

Davio

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 06:30:11 am »
0

He just loves walking blue dogs, but he doesn't know whether he is actually walking the blue dog.
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sitnaltax

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2012, 08:49:37 am »
0

I would go back in time to say to Donald: Don't worry, we like the game anyway.

Truth. Lesson learned: Do some serious research with the person who knows best before messing with the space-time-game continuum.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2012, 09:27:37 am »
+8

That post should go in the Bible of Donald X. section.

Death to Sea Hags

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2012, 09:57:14 am »
0

Donald X. tried to explain the interaction between Ironworks and Trader with a blue dog.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=880.msg13340#msg13340
or more specifically:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7743728#7743728

Shorter ruling: Ironworks is not a whore.

It only gives a bonus to "a" card "it" chooses.  Yes there's a better dog joke, but its definitely "bluer".  :)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:14:36 am by Death to Sea Hags »
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angrybirds

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2012, 10:29:37 am »
+3

changes are to drop the reactions from Fool's Gold and Trader...


Where is the scroll over? That is always the best part!
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Donald X.

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2012, 03:50:55 pm »
+1

One thing I was thinking about Adventurer when reading through your description of Lookout though: is it like,  a reverse situation? I have just seen so many new players buy adventurer because either it costs 6 or it sounds cool. And sure experienced players will find it a fine card, occasionally useful but not always. But do we really have to have a card in the base set that the new players have to learn not to buy. especially since there are no other kingdom cards to compete with it at the same cost?
I think in fact it is great to have cards in the base set that your evaluation of changes over time.

@O: I don't think Wishing Well would be a problem in the base set, because the worst case is you don't buy it because you don't like it, but it was an example of how easy it is to do better than Woodcutter and Feast.
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Jedit

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2012, 06:02:13 pm »
0

Familiar is "obviously" too strong at $2P, just as Chapel is too strong at $2. Like Chapel's low cost, this makes broadens the availability of the power card; the change would make it much less likely that you can't buy one on T3/4.

Chapel being too cheap is no reason to make Familiar too cheap.  When you want Familiars most, between the first and second reshuffles, their opportunity cost is only $4.  Dropping that to $3 would be obscenely overpowered for a cantrip curser, which as a card is at least as strong as Sea Hag - perhaps stronger, as it cycles when the Curses are gone while Sea Hag is effectively dead - and not all that far off the power level of Witch.

If I had a time machine and could only change things about Dominion, I'd raise the cost of Chapel to $3, and add a $5 cost $3 Treasure Duration that made you discard a card at random the next time you drew your hand.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2012, 08:26:33 pm »
+1

Familiar is "obviously" too strong at $2P, just as Chapel is too strong at $2. Like Chapel's low cost, this makes broadens the availability of the power card; the change would make it much less likely that you can't buy one on T3/4.

Chapel being too cheap is no reason to make Familiar too cheap.  When you want Familiars most, between the first and second reshuffles, their opportunity cost is only $4.  Dropping that to $3 would be obscenely overpowered for a cantrip curser, which as a card is at least as strong as Sea Hag - perhaps stronger, as it cycles when the Curses are gone while Sea Hag is effectively dead - and not all that far off the power level of Witch.
Can you explain what you mean when you say the "opportunity cost is only $4"? This doesn't really make much sense to me. The opportunity cost is pretty high -- you have to buy an otherwise useless Potion at the opening, then buy the Familiar -- and it's hard to quantify that in $.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:28:49 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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Davio

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2012, 07:46:24 am »
+1

I like Chapel for $3, because this causes 5/2 openers to either spend 5 on Chapel or take the good 5 first (Witch, Mountebank) and get the Chapel later (or not at all). I think this is more fair for the unlucky 4/3 opener who stands more of a chance against the 5/2s this way.
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cherdano

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2012, 09:17:45 am »
0

I like Chapel for $3, because this causes 5/2 openers to either spend 5 on Chapel or take the good 5 first (Witch, Mountebank) and get the Chapel later (or not at all). I think this is more fair for the unlucky 4/3 opener who stands more of a chance against the 5/2s this way.
This would make it more fair when there is a superduper $5 card, but I think on all other kingdom's it would just add chapel to 5/2-opening's nightmares, and make it too unfair in the other direction. The silver in a tyipcal silver/chapel opening is quite important (especially since you may spend two of the next four turns not buying anything.
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theory

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2012, 09:44:35 am »
+3

Quote from: Donald X.
People often talk about changing the cost and I don't think that gets you anywhere. At $4 you get less interesting games, not more interesting ones, and exchanging the 2/5 opening being especially good for the 2/5 opening being especially weak is a wash for me. If I had thought it was a mistake to print it at $2, I would have replaced it, not charged more for it.
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tlloyd

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2012, 11:47:18 am »
+1

Masquerade originally triggered gain/trash things; I would look at that again, but honestly I would be unlikely to just reword it to address the King's Court / Masquerade / Goons combo. Masquerade has a clear simple wording and I would rather kill the card than make the wording awful, an awful that you dear reader may be mystified as to the awfulness of, I have come to terms with that. But I'm not sure I need to kill the combo and Masquerade is a pretty cool card.

I think I mentioned this in an earlier discussion, but the fix for Masquerade is actually pretty simple:

"Each player passes a card from his hand to the left at once. Then, If you passed a card, you may trash a card from your hand."

This still allows you to trade something for nothing, it just prevents you from doing it more than once. And while new players might be confused by the mandatory "pass a card" and the seemingly optional "If you did" language, that is easily dealt with in the FAQ. Besides, there are plenty of cards that are somewhat confusing to new players. I doubt this wording would puzzle anyone for long.
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AJD

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2012, 02:05:15 pm »
0

I think I mentioned this in an earlier discussion, but the fix for Masquerade is actually pretty simple:

"Each player passes a card from his hand to the left at once. Then, If you passed a card, you may trash a card from your hand."

This still allows you to trade something for nothing, it just prevents you from doing it more than once. And while new players might be confused by the mandatory "pass a card" and the seemingly optional "If you did" language, that is easily dealt with in the FAQ. Besides, there are plenty of cards that are somewhat confusing to new players. I doubt this wording would puzzle anyone for long.

I wonder if that's too easy to misunderstand as meaning anyone may trash. Dominion cards don't use "you" generically, but casual players might not notice that rule, and misinterpret "If you passed a card, you may trash one" as meaning 'anyone who passed a card may trash one'.
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qmech

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2012, 03:16:19 pm »
0

but casual players might not notice that rule, and misinterpret
There's also "What do you mean, if I passed a card?  You just told me to.  Why would I ever not?" which takes new players quite a long way off course.
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toaster

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2012, 03:28:06 pm »
+1

There's also "What do you mean, if I passed a card?  You just told me to.  Why would I ever not?" which takes new players quite a long way off course.

That's a wording that already appears on a number of other cards though.
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qmech

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2012, 03:46:52 pm »
0

There's also "What do you mean, if I passed a card?  You just told me to.  Why would I ever not?" which takes new players quite a long way off course.

That's a wording that already appears on a number of other cards though.

It is, but the edge case is more removed from normal experience than it is with some other cards.  With Mining Village you only have to mention Throne Room; with Moneylender you hardly have to explain anything.  With Masquerade you'd be getting into things which have never come up in any of the games I've played.
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tlloyd

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Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2012, 05:19:39 pm »
+2

but casual players might not notice that rule, and misinterpret
There's also "What do you mean, if I passed a card?  You just told me to.  Why would I ever not?" which takes new players quite a long way off course.

I directly addressed this in my post.
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