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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #1 and #2!  (Read 63369 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #100 on: July 02, 2012, 10:50:57 pm »
0

This time I edited rinkworks post to discuss the too strong or weak cursers I don't plan to approve.  Not with this one and the last one that there may be other cards I don't approve for a different reason.
Challenge #2 - Ballot

Titan
Too strong

Callisto
Weak

Titania
Weak

Rhea
Strong in an ambassadorish way.  If I deny it an approval vote, it can't really be for power. I think.

Iapetus
Strong

Ariel
Strong





Dysnomia
Weak

Hyperion
Too strong (compare to igg)

Namaka
Too strong

Puck
$5 - Action
Too strong.  Compare to YW

Despina
This produces 2$ less than Loan.  Loan is weak.  This compares really poorly to Loan and Sea Hag.
Too weak.

Hydra
Too weak

Thebe
Too weak.

Juliet
Too strong.  Compare to village, do I want to draw a card or hand out curses?  Hand out curses, by a lot.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #101 on: July 02, 2012, 10:54:09 pm »
0

Elara is strictly worse than Witch.  Donald avoids strictly worse because it annoys some people (I think I read that in the secret histories?).  But in a game with an ever changing card pool strictly better is okay, the cards may not show up together. 

Of course, if you are strictly worse than a borderline card like Loan, then there is concern that maybe the card is too weak to even be purchased with enough frequency.

Edge case: Elara is stronger against Library!
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jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #102 on: July 02, 2012, 11:09:13 pm »
0

Something I see a lot of which I really don't like for the curse cards is when the best defense against the curser is to buy the curser yourself. I mean, as it is you likely already want to get a witch just to dish out curses faster, so do we really need to further incentivize that?
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rspeer

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #103 on: July 02, 2012, 11:16:01 pm »
0

Comments on the Peddler-style cards that get my attention:

I see Betelgeuse wasn't on pops's strong list. It seems rather strong at $2. Isn't it nearly a cartographer?

The fact that Achernar does the opposite card-type permutation of Betelgeuse is amusing. The Curse bonus is interesting. It's definitely an "assist" card rather than the star of either a money deck or an engine, but I can see it being worth the price in big-card-draw engines or in games that are slowed down by cursing cards. Right?

Aldebaran: I think like it. That's the first $5 reaction, right? I wish there wasn't such a proliferation of mats in the game, though, and if I had this card I'd be tempted to make a house rule that the Aldebaran mat and the NV mat are the same. Which could make some fun combos. But I digress because that's not the card we're voting on.

Acrux: *political head-explody*

It's great in a two-player game. In 3P, isn't the end result basically going to be to enable collusion against the guy to your left?

Peacock: Wow. That really takes the weird effect of Black Market and milks it for all it's worth. Is the fact that I really want to play Peacock/Tactician a good thing or a bad thing?

We haven't seen many nonterminal trashers before. The only reason Gacrux isn't strong as hell, I think, is that it will quickly run out of fuel (cards to trash). As a nonterminal trasher/gainer, isn't Castor really really strong? Not just $5 strong?

Murzim: Too strong, you say? I see that it can be remodeled into Provinces or Colonies, but then Peddlers can be remodeled into Provinces or expanded into Colonies and they're not broken. Unless you can abuse the heck out of that, I don't think it's too strong: when you're not doing remodeling shenanigans it's an average-cost to expensive Peddler.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #104 on: July 02, 2012, 11:16:23 pm »
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I don't think the idea is to incentivize it.  Strong cursers are mandatory anyway.  Given that, providing the other mechanics makes the games have a unique quality so the game feels different from a Witch game, and you buy your other cards differently because of it.

That said, it's a bad thing if the do-cool-stuff-with-curses effect is so strong that you can just stack the power curser to curse super fast, then not even suffer from having too many of them later.  Then it becomes kinda like IGG in that all your 5$ purchases are getting dictated and it's boring.
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thirtyseven

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #105 on: July 02, 2012, 11:24:57 pm »
+1

Quote
Pollux
$6 - Action-Attack
Upon playing this card, you may reveal and discard a Province from your hand.  If you do, each other player must discard a Treasure or reveal a hand with no Treasure.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

This card is like a cantripped Cutpurse that gives $1 not $2 and rarely attacks, or an ever-so-slightly improved Peddler. The attack just seems too weak, and the cost $1 or even $2 too steep. The attack will mostly happen during the endgame, where it probably won't matter much, especially against playing an engine or no trashing (still has Copper).
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I'm only a mid-level player, so I may be wrong...

popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #106 on: July 02, 2012, 11:25:55 pm »
0

ninja'ed - Bertelguese (however you spell it) isn't a cartographer because to get the best bonus, +card, you have to discard an action, something you definitely want to leave on top.  For instance, if the action is Lab, you can discard it for +1 card this turn, -1 card next turn, which is nothing at all.   If it's a cheaper action, you get some benefit out of it because you split the difference. 

It otherwise plays as a copper with a deck inspection utility if you choose not to superspy yourself by chunking an action.

It also fizzles sometimes.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 11:29:01 pm by popsofctown »
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jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #107 on: July 02, 2012, 11:34:21 pm »
0

Hydra
$7 - Action-Attack-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn: Each other player takes a curse or reveals a hand with no curse cards.


Am I reading this wrong or does this card not ever give out curses by itself? You only get a curse if you already have a curse?
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #108 on: July 02, 2012, 11:43:47 pm »
0

You're reading it right.  I'm guessing the writer wasn't "writing it right"
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jonts26

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #109 on: July 02, 2012, 11:44:37 pm »
0

I don't think the idea is to incentivize it.  Strong cursers are mandatory anyway.  Given that, providing the other mechanics makes the games have a unique quality so the game feels different from a Witch game, and you buy your other cards differently because of it.

That said, it's a bad thing if the do-cool-stuff-with-curses effect is so strong that you can just stack the power curser to curse super fast, then not even suffer from having too many of them later.  Then it becomes kinda like IGG in that all your 5$ purchases are getting dictated and it's boring.

No, I know the point isn't to incentive it, that's just the result. And it's more like, by having a card be the best defense to curses while still giving them out, well why would you ever buy another curser. As of now, say you have both witch and mountebank on the board, well you have interesting decisions to make about what to get.

And yeah, I agree that any curse givers which are easily stackable are even worse.
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #110 on: July 02, 2012, 11:50:20 pm »
0

Edge case: Elara is stronger against Library!

How?

Edits to avoid multiple posts...

----

Bellatrix seems way too strong; it basically lets you carry forward up to $10 of unused money to future turns for free (not to mention TR/KC), and gives the player in the lead a much easier time ending the game on piles.

----

Despina
This produces 2$ less than Loan.  Loan is weak.  This compares really poorly to Loan and Sea Hag.
Too weak.

I'm not so sure. It does a bit of what Loan does *and* it curses. And you surely remember how underrated JoaT was initially... on a board with a lot of engine potential, being able to get rid of your Copper and slow opponents down at the same time seems pretty valuable. I could see an argument that it should give $1 though.

(But I don't know what you mean about producing $2 less than Loan. Loan only produces $1 if I'm thinking straight.)

----

With Nix, would you get +2 cards by discarding a Harem?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 12:20:45 am by zahlman »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #111 on: July 03, 2012, 01:12:55 am »
0

I feel disincentivized to vote since it disadvantages me. I will anyway since I don't think mine are the very best.

My curser is in the top half. Opinions:

Enceladus: With a 5/2, this seems too powerful, otherwise weak. It only makes sense as an opener or if there are no other good terminals or trashers. It takes 3 uses to make it a worthwhile addition to your deck.
Miranda: I like this more, though it is very powerful. A Miranda/Miranda opening leads to an extremely cursed game, though that means there are few curses to dish out. Seems okay.
Proteus: It gives players the choice to discard a card for the rest of their lives to save themselves from the many curses. Doesn't work amazingly well in multiples, and I am fine with that. This one seems dynamic and interesting; the key is that it is okay to take the curses after each reshuffle. Seems fun.
Mimas: Nearly always weaker at cursing than Sea Hag, but you can catch someone off guard and steal a Silver from their hand. You can steal a key Copper from a player about to buy a useful card. Seems time consuming and too strong for multiplayer.
Dysnomia: What about naming Curse?! That seems cruel that the Cursing gets worse over time or if the opponent messes up.
Nereid: Seems okay.
Hyperion: An Embargo that hits a card that the opponent buys once seems like a big victory. This card could become a problem if nearly every 4/3 player gets one, but that happens often. Seems fun.
Phoebe: Too strong.
Larissa: Too random.
Janus: Playing Curses as Silvers is more complicated than saying you can discard Curses for 2 coin each. Seems okay.
Galatea: In cursing games, trashing Coppers is often weak. Thought about another way: half of these cards are +4 coin, the other half are weak Sea Hags. Too strong.
Himalia: Too random for my tastes, but seems like it can be controlled for.
Namaka: This starts out as a Chapel, but extremely lucky players can trash their starting Estates for a massive lead. Other than that case, seems okay.
Amalthea: Often weak, since it requires you to mass 2-cost cards. The reaction could be changed to on gain, since it would then protect against Cursers, but then it would protect against itself.
Puck: I play Puck. I have 7 cards in hand, 4 coppers, 2 estates, 1 terminal action. I can discard 1 of each, curse my opponent and get a card worth 5. I play Witch. I have 6 cards in hand, 4 coppers, 1 estate, 1 terminal action. I curse my opponent a get a card worth 4. Later in the game you can always discard 3 of the 4: terminal actions, Copper, Estates, Curses. Seems too strong with +$2.
Despina: Being a treasure doesn't seem interesting. It seems like the only difference between that and a non-terminal action is that this one can be used in Smithy+BM.
Portia: I don't want to have the game slow down because all of my opponent's buys that aren't good for him to turn into Curses.
Epimethus: Would be better worded as "Each other player reveals their hand. Each player that reveals a Curse places it on top of their deck. Each player that didn't reveal a Curse gains a curse, placing it in their hand."
Hydra: Likely has a typo.
Thebe: Seems weak, since it is a combo card that only works with itself and only a couple of times per game.
Juliet: Too strong.
Nix: Too strong, since it is at least a Cellar. Cursing or $2 is nearly always better than +1 card. It would have to cost at least 4.
Elara: Is much weaker than Witch.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #112 on: July 03, 2012, 02:53:02 am »
0

I've printed both lists in full and will be going over them at work. Since there're just too many cards to compare, my first move will be to immediately eliminate any cards worded incorrectly, with wrong typings, or with gaping rules issues (e.g. on my first read through I saw a number of cursers typed simply as "Attack").
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #113 on: July 03, 2012, 07:50:47 am »
+1

Sorry for a very long post, but I think discussing is a lot easier with the card description right there. Is there a collate-option?
Here's my reaction to the Peddlers. One of them is mine, but I just commented on that one too to not raise attention.


Sirius
$2 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is in your hand during your Buy phase, +$1, +1 Buy.
> It looks like an interesting take on Pawn, albeit a tad stronger (since not playing it effectively nets you an action, $1 and a buy). However, I would consistently not play it and use it for the second effect. In that case, it's just a copper with a buy. As card design goes, I'd rather have it that simple: a copper with a buy.

Canopus
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand.
>Very powerful card, maybe a tad boring. I think it should be $5. I would pick one up pretty much whenever I'd see it. I'm afraid it take some of the thunder from other trashers, which are usually more interesting.


Arcturus
$0 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
At the end of your turn, return this card to the supply.
--
When another player plays [This Card], you may set this aside from your hand.  If you do, gain a copy of [This Card], and return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
>Interesting. Hard to say how this would play out. I think it combines well with remaking curses and coppers and such; also with Goons, of course. I don't know - I wouldn't deliberately go for them since playing them can help your opponents out a lot. But I would still pock them up if I had buys to spare. Not sure if that is a good thing.


Vega
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card. If you do, +1 Card.
> I think this is the more interesting and better priced little brother of Canopus. It's still a little boring and effective though. Almost as if it was designed by a player, who just really wished he always had this power at his disposal ;) Pretty nice still.


Rigel
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Gain a copper in hand.
>I like this. It's not the strongest $5, and it's difficult to play well. I'd keep trying to make it work, even though it usually won't be the best choice.


Procyonc
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Treasure card.  If you do +Buy for each $ the card generates.
>Fantastic in any Goons engine. Again, I think this card indulges the needy player a bit too much. Buys are a pretty rare commodity. If there ever comes a card that gives more than one, I don't think it should be a cantrip. As is, I would pick one up every time. Maybe the discard should be mandatory?


Betelgeuse
$2 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  Reveal and discard up to 3 of them.  Put the rest back in any order.
If you revealed an Action card, +1 Card.
If you revealed a Treasure card, +1 Action.
If you revealed a Victory card, +$1.
>Very nice in greening decks (alternate VP) and a bit of trap in engines and BM-likes (as said before: discarding your action cards for 1 card is not always a good deal). Kind of like crossroads, actually. I like it, and I think the price is fine.

Achernar
$3 - Action
Reveal your hand.
If you reveal a Victory card, +1 Action.
If you reveal an Action card, +$1.
If you reveal a Curse, +1 VP.
If you reveal a Treasure card, +1 Card.
>Fun. The VP-clause is interesting: do you want do curse someone, if it will net him some positive VP over time? I think you still do. Early game, curses cripple, and late game, they won't net as much VP. Nice. I think it should be $4 though. Getting a full peddler out of it shouldn't be hard, and it's a non-terminal VP-gainer!

Hadar
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may gain a card costing up to $4 that is not a [This Card] or a Victory card.
>Could be worded simpler by leaving out the [this card]-rule. I think it's fine, but it feels a bit too familiar.


Capella
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
If there are 1 or fewer empty piles in the supply, +1 Card. If there are no empty piles in the
supply, +$1.
> The variance hides it a little, but this card is weak. It's a copper with a buy first half of the game, then a cantrip with a buy after that. Again: I'd rather see a copper with a buy if that's what it effectively is. If it's the only source of +buy, I would probably pick one up.


Altair
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
--
If you have no actions left during your action phase, you may reveal and discard this. If you do, +1 Action.
>As said before: not a peddler-variant. But Rinkworks said not to judge by that, so I won't :) Makes for a much smoother, easier Village/Smithy-type deck. I'd want some in my engine, yes. I think it's a little too easy and it removes some of the challenge of building an engine. A little.


Aldebaran
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may set aside an action card from your hand face down on your [This Card] mat; or take a card from your [This Card] mat and place it in your hand. You may look at the cards on your mat at any time; return them to your deck at the end of the game.
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this card. If you do, set aside an action card from your hand face down on your [This Card] mat.
>I don't think the Reaction part is necessary. That is only useful if you have this and at least two cards in your hand you'd like to set on your mat. Besides that, it might be too strong. It's a Haven/Island-Juggernaut. But I love Haven and Island and would buy the shit out of this. Make it $6, to prevent lucky first-round buys, and I'm in.


Spica
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player may discard a Treasure card from his or her hand. If nobody does, +1 Buy and +$1.
>Nice. Simple. It'll be a cheap market up until players start having $7 and $9 in hand. Do the players discard in clockwise order? Not the strongest $4, but still the right price.


Antares
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal your hand.  If you reveal
any victory cards, +1 Card
any action cards, +1 Action
any treasure cards, +$1
>The price fits better here than with Achernar, and it's a fine card. However, I'd like Achernar at $4 better than this. But Achernar isn't $4, so there's that...


Pollux
$6 - Action-Attack
Upon playing this card, you may reveal and discard a Province from your hand.  If you do, each other player must discard a Treasure or reveal a hand with no Treasure.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
>As said before: the attack is almost exactly Cutpurse, but you can't trigger it often. Your opponents will probably have a copper on hand. It's non-terminal, but the attack isn't, since you discard the Province. I'd say a very weak $5, and the effect isn't really interesting enough considering the buildup.


Fomalhaut
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player may trash a treasure card from their hand. If no player trashes a card, +$1.
You may trash a card from your hand.
>I like it, but I like Vega better. The opponents' boon is huge early game, gimping this card for you while you're trying to build up your deck. Trash-not-for-benefit-cards are early game cards. I'd always pass this one up.



Deneb
Action - $4
When there is at least one [This Card] card in the supply:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
When there are no more [This Card] cards in the supply:
+1 Action
+1 VP
>I like it. Hard to judge. I don't think it's too strong, because the two effects will never collide. If the second part also had +card, then it would be overpowered. I would want many, but a hand full of these (end game) is close to worthless, save the 5VP. You won't be able to influence the end game, just get tie-breaker points.

Mimosa
$5 - Action
Take a card from your discard pile and place it on the bottom of your deck.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
>Nice and simple. It slows the game down, rummaging through your discard, but no more than Inn and Philosopher's Stone. I don't think it's too powerful, but would still love to have some.

Regulus
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Gain a card costing $4 or less.
--
While this is in play, Treasure cards cost $1 more.
>Very similar to Hadar, but I like its drawback better (don't gain green cards). I don't understand what the extra rule here accompishes. Now, if it were a Duration card and also effected your opponents, that I would get. And hate (in a cantrip) :)

Acrux
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
The player to your right draws 1 card.
--
When you buy this card, the player to your left gains it in his hand.
>So, a Peddler for him and a Caravan for you. Probably a fine deal, but you're both helping each other too much. It just wouldn't feel right and I would loath buying it and playing it. It's fun, but I don't think you can strike a balance that makes buying this worth your while. After all, your opponent can choose not to play it. In which case, it's kind of a 0VP curse you can deal out by buying it... Oh. That's actually pretty cool!


Adara
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Card
+$1
--
When you buy this, gain another [This Card].
While this is in play, you may not buy cards costing more than $6.
>Yes, this card is great for me. I love Alternate VP ánd Bridge/Highway/Princess. I also like the on-gain effect, though I'm not sure it's necessary.


Shaula
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top three cards of your deck. You may put one into your hand. You may trash one; if you do, +$1. Discard the remainder.
>Ok, so it's a super-Outlook. I like Outlook, but to be honest, I like it better than this. It's obviously weaker, but that makes it an interesting opener. Shaula just negates all its drawbacks. Kind of boring (and like Canopus, Vega, Procyonc, Altair and Aldebaran: it's a card every player would want to have. It's strong and easy (not the same as simple). Since when do people know what's good for them?)


Gacrux
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a card from your hand.
>Very similar to Canopus(btw, that's a nasty name, Rinkworks!), but the trash being mandatory makes this definitely my favorite of the two. Not sure if this would beat Vega, which is also very similar.



Bellatrix
$1 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Card
+$1
--               
When you buy this card, +1 Buy.
If you played this card on your turn, during clean up, return it to the supply.
>As said before: too strong for the leader, end game. Also incredible with Goons. I definitely prefer Arcturus.


Miaplacidus
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
When you play this, if you have gained no cards this turn, you may gain a card costing up to 1 coin for each action card you have in play, counting this. If its a victory card, trash this.
>I love to play with cards like these, but I think it is overpowered. You can just rake up de Miaplacides, Markets, Stables etc. and in time the Platinums. Horn of Plenty is weaker and much more interesting.

Alioth
$2 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
>It's a weaker Rigel, and I like both. If I have to choose, I'd go for Rigel because that card isn't worthless* when you choose not to gain.


Mirfak
$6 Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Each other player may reveal a Gold from their hand.  If no one does, gain a Gold, placing it on your deck, and each other player gains a copper, placing it on their deck.
>What I like about this card, is that while it $6 and therefore competes with Gold, its presence also stimulates buying Golds. I think I would like this better if it was +2 cards or something, instead of a cantrip. This shouldn't be an engine card.


Wezen
$3 - Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any...
Action cards, +1 Action
Treasure cards, +$1
Victory cards, +1 Card
>wow, Tribute-inspired cards are hot this season! This is exactly Entares without the +buy. I don't believe the buy adds much. Both cards are fine, but I really like Achernar's VP-clause.

Sargas
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Gain a card costing no more than $1 for every action you have played this turn (counting this).  If that card costs more than this, then trash this.
>This adresses my problem with Miaplacidus, making it much better. You can still pile up the Miaplacides, though. I'd like this to be $6 and say 'If that card costs at least the same as this...'. This way it still works for Dukes. Oh, I'd love that :)

Alhena
$5 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Discard 2 cards, if you do look through your discard pile and draw a card from it.
>With this punctuation, the if/then is reversed, but I'll look past that. It's a nice card, but would be better at $4, I think. Lovely in decks that start greening at an early stage.

Peacock
$6 - Treasure
Worth $1
+1 Buy
--
Immediately begin a new action phase.
+1 Card
+1 Action
--
(Rules clarifications:  This card interrupts your buy phase; you begin a new action phase before purchasing anything. This new action phase does not have an inherent action, nor do any remaining actions from the previous action phase carry over to the new action phase. After completing this action phase, the player re-enters their buy phase.)
>Don't know what to think of this. We already have a crazy card that allows you to play treasure cards 'during' the action phase, which is pretty much what this does. Since it doesn't cost an action to play but the new action phase starts without extra actions, Peacock nets a Market, as long as there are no crazy situations like Tactician or Quarry. I need to test this. I already think it needs a wordy 'no more than one extra action phase' rule.


Castor
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
At the start of your clean-up phase, you may trash any number of action cards you have in play, including this. Then you may gain a card costing up to $1 per the number of trashed cards other than this, plus $2 if you trashed this.
>I like that this happens in your Clean-up phase, because of the 'keeping track' problem Mining Village has. Almost exclusively relevant in the very last turns; it adds a little excitement to the PPR.

Polaris
$4 - Action
+1 card
+1 action
+$1
You may trash a treasure card from your hand.
If you don't, trash this card.
>Nice. A little more difficult than Vega, I like that.


Murzim
$4* - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
--
This costs $1 more per Action card you have in play.
>Too expensive. If this started out at $2, it would probably work (because playing Murzims would make buying Murzims more difficult). I think I already saw that card around here recently. Nice with trash for benefit, because it happens immediately (as opposed to Peddler).


Alphard
$4 - Action
Look at the top card of your deck and discard it or put it back.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
>Self-Spy is weak enough to add to Peddler and still be a $4, I think. Strong card at its price. A tad boring.


Hamal
$5 - Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Put one into your hand, discard the other card.
+1 Action
+$1
>Marginally stronger than Alphard, this is correctly priced as a weak $5. Nothing earth-shattering, but I like both cards (though not both/together).
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2012, 09:16:21 am »
0

I feel disincentivized to vote since it disadvantages me. I will anyway since I don't think mine are the very best.

A way to fix this would be to give any person who votes 1 vote on each of their own cards. That way, they won't be able to give 2 or 3 to their own card, but voting still helps them by making their vote equivalent to the approval level.

Either way, I plan on voting even if it hurts my chances. What's the fun in not voting!
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2012, 09:27:12 am »
+1

I agree with Schneau.  Giving an auto-approval vote to my own cards makes sense to me.

We all are misreading Capella!  It's not a City, it's a Tournament!

What's the deadline for voting?  I think it's important to discuss the cards before voting. I misread one for crying out loud! I'm suprised anyone's voted already.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:31:43 am by popsofctown »
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iangoth

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #116 on: July 03, 2012, 09:49:48 am »
0

You're right! I misread Capella, too. The text isn't at all ambiguous, but the phrasing feels backwards, somehow. I would've understood it more easily if the wording had been more like this:


Capella
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
If there are no empty piles in the supply, +1 card, +$1. If there is exactly one empty pile in the supply, +1 Card.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #117 on: July 03, 2012, 10:17:10 am »
+1

I feel disincentivized to vote since it disadvantages me. I will anyway since I don't think mine are the very best.

A way to fix this would be to give any person who votes 1 vote on each of their own cards.

This is an excellent idea.  I'll modify the voting rules post accordingly, but just to make it clear:  By submitting votes for a challenge, you will earn 1 point for your entry in that challenge.

I don't see how Altair meets the requirements? You can't discard and play the same copy of the card...

Yes, that was me screwing up.  I somehow missed that this card was technically ineligible until the deadline had passed.  Since I'd been telling people whenever they submitted an ineligible card -- so they'd have a chance to submit something else instead -- I didn't think it was fair to disqualify it at that point.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #118 on: July 03, 2012, 10:23:19 am »
0

More comments. Again, my card is in the top half.

Bellatrix: I would buy this card with any of my excess coin. I already do a similar thing with Border Village, but I cannot just buy 4 of them whenever I can't get the 5 cost I want. This card would get silly and run out too quickly.
Alioth: Seems fun, however weak it turns out to be, it ends you up with a larger hand which is useful sometimes.
Mirfak: Seems very punishing for not revealing Gold. If it was a Silver on top of the deck instead, I would like it more.
Wezen: Getting an action from revealing an action card is almost the same as always getting one.
Sargas: Gains you an estate or copper way more often than you would like, likely weak.
Alhena: Seems fun.
Peacock: Needlessly complex, but a good implementation of the Blind Draw is OK mechanic. Would a version that just let you put Action cards from your hand to your deck for extra coins be simpler?
Castor: Complex but seems fun.
Polaris: Mostly like a Spice Merchant with a "middle" option. Seems okay.
Murzim: Great for trash for benefit/ upgrading, otherwise just a consolation prize for BM. It seems likely this forum already talked about a similar card.
Alphard: Since $4 is the value agreed to be right for a Peddler, tacking on a nearly always ability makes me think it is too strong.
Hamal: Seems fun.
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2012, 12:04:47 pm »
+2

I've printed both lists in full and will be going over them at work. Since there're just too many cards to compare, my first move will be to immediately eliminate any cards worded incorrectly, with wrong typings, or with gaping rules issues (e.g. on my first read through I saw a number of cursers typed simply as "Attack").

I think it's unfortunate if the community ends up rejecting what they (unknowingly) agree is a superior concept over a technicality. I don't have a good solution, however.

Adara
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Card
+$1
--
When you buy this, gain another [This Card].
While this is in play, you may not buy cards costing more than $6.
>Yes, this card is great for me. I love Alternate VP ánd Bridge/Highway/Princess. I also like the on-gain effect, though I'm not sure it's necessary.

With the on-gain effect, I'm not really sure you need alt-VP/etc. for it to be strong. I'm picturing a City-Adara-Duchy rush.

Quote
Alioth
$2 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
>It's a weaker Rigel, and I like both. If I have to choose, I'd go for Rigel because that card isn't worthless* when you choose not to gain.

... but the gain on Rigel is mandatory. I didn't like Rigel. My gut feeling is it's too weak with a mandatory gain, and would be too strong with an optional gain. Based on my experiences with IGG games, "you may gain a copper in hand" is almost as good as an extra $1, especially if there is any kind of copper trashing available at all (since you only take it when you need it to buy whatever it is you're planning to buy - typically, the rest of the stack of that card).

Quote
>wow, Tribute-inspired cards are hot this season!

I think "reveal your hand and match stuff for goodies" plays a lot differently from "reveal an opponent's deck and match stuff for goodies", though. For the same reason that Menagerie is an interesting card.

Quote
Alhena
$5 - Action
+1 Action
+$1
Discard 2 cards, if you do look through your discard pile and draw a card from it.
>With this punctuation, the if/then is reversed, but I'll look past that.

Ha, I suppose it is. Gotta love English. :) I'm not sure I agree it'd be better at $4. Being able to choose your card from the discards is pretty powerful, since you'll have basically half your deck there on average and thus a good chance of picking out a rather nice card. Also, it gets better over time and is pretty weak to start, so why give it a price point that guarantees first-shuffle access?

I'm envisioning this having some synergy with Counting House. Although that seems like a trap.

Quote
Castor
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
At the start of your clean-up phase, you may trash any number of action cards you have in play, including this. Then you may gain a card costing up to $1 per the number of trashed cards other than this, plus $2 if you trashed this.
>I like that this happens in your Clean-up phase, because of the 'keeping track' problem Mining Village has. Almost exclusively relevant in the very last turns; it adds a little excitement to the PPR.

I don't think I approved this one, but now I kinda wish I had. Hmm. The effect would be more interesting with +Buy, but then it would be strictly superior to Market.

Quote
Murzim
$4* - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
--
This costs $1 more per Action card you have in play.
>Too expensive. If this started out at $2, it would probably work (because playing Murzims would make buying Murzims more difficult).

I'd say $3. Otherwise it'd be too good to pick up a Murzim on 5/2 openings and then ignore them after that.

Quote
Hamal
$5 - Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Put one into your hand, discard the other card.
+1 Action
+$1
>Marginally stronger than Alphard, this is correctly priced as a weak $5. Nothing earth-shattering, but I like both cards (though not both/together).

I thought this was really weak (it didn't help that it was listed right next to Alphard). But maybe selecting from the top two cards - explicitly and with full information - is worth more than I think.

Oh, forgot one:

Quote
Capella
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
If there are 1 or fewer empty piles in the supply, +1 Card. If there are no empty piles in the
supply, +$1.
> The variance hides it a little, but this card is weak. It's a copper with a buy first half of the game, then a cantrip with a buy after that. Again: I'd rather see a copper with a buy if that's what it effectively is. If it's the only source of +buy, I would probably pick one up.

Uhh? No, it's a Market in the first half of the game. "No empty piles" qualifies for "1 or fewer empty piles" as well. It's actually ridiculously powerful, except for the part where everyone wants them, but nobody wants for them to run out. (Ignoring them initially and then buying the last one probably isn't a viable strategy, since the damage is done by that point.)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 12:49:34 pm by zahlman »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2012, 01:17:58 pm »
0

Quote
Capella
$3 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
If there are 1 or fewer empty piles in the supply, +1 Card. If there are no empty piles in the
supply, +$1.
> The variance hides it a little, but this card is weak. It's a copper with a buy first half of the game, then a cantrip with a buy after that. Again: I'd rather see a copper with a buy if that's what it effectively is. If it's the only source of +buy, I would probably pick one up.

Uhh? No, it's a Market in the first half of the game. "No empty piles" qualifies for "1 or fewer empty piles" as well. It's actually ridiculously powerful, except for the part where everyone wants them, but nobody wants for them to run out. (Ignoring them initially and then buying the last one probably isn't a viable strategy, since the damage is done by that point.)

You're right, I misread this card. Ignore my comment on it.

I think you're right about Murzim on $3. Still not crazy about it, though.

I hate to admit I didn't realize Rigel's copper gain was mandatory. Still like it, though. Even if you count the copper gain as +$1, it is an activated Conspirator. Is that too strong for a $5, considering the (usual) downside of an extra copper?
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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2012, 01:59:02 pm »
0

The more I think about Capella the more interesting it gets. Definitely a game-changer, making the game much more likely to end on piles. Probably disadvantages 5/2 openings; everyone else will want to open Capella/Capella without a really compelling reason otherwise since it's clearly better for initial money density than Silver/Silver. Basically there's just so much pressure for everyone to run out the Capella pile cooperatively, and then if there are decent $2 cards on the board the +buy will still be good, but otherwise idk how much a cantrip buy is really worth.

I think you're right about Murzim on $3. Still not crazy about it, though.

On further reflection, maybe $4 is fine. Opening Murzim/Murzim is still strong, and as others noted you can get cool Remodel/etc. effects if you do manage to acquire a whole bunch.

Quote
I hate to admit I didn't realize Rigel's copper gain was mandatory. Still like it, though. Even if you count the copper gain as +$1, it is an activated Conspirator. Is that too strong for a $5, considering the (usual) downside of an extra copper?

"an activated Conspirator", AKA a GM without the +buy. That's a lot, but adding copper hurts. IDK, maybe $5 is fine.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #122 on: July 03, 2012, 02:30:14 pm »
0

Rigel is like Cache in that it works out balanced for alt-vp because alt VP strategies don't typically go after 5$ cards.

Of course, Rigel is stronger than a 5$ Gold.  But alt-VP also gets less value out of a cantrip with the lower money density.  I think it works out fine.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2012, 07:22:27 pm »
0

I think I need a couple of clarifications:

For Procyon, how are cards like Bank treated? Is it 1 (because it generates 1 by itself)? Or reveal your hand and calculate what it would be worth in your buy phase in which case it could be worth a lot?

For Tethys, does the if-then trigger mean an additional 2 actions, for 4 actions total and the person who played the card discards (not anyone else)? This was clarified for me: +2 actions either way. You either give out curses if no one reveals a curse, or you discard down to three if someone does.

For reference:
Procyon
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Treasure card.  If you do +Buy for each $ the card generates.

Tethys
$4 - Attack
+2 Actions
Each other player gains a curse.
If another player reveals a curse from hand: +2 Actions, discard down to three cards in hand.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 08:07:38 pm by Polk5440 »
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Part 1!
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2012, 08:33:36 pm »
0

I didn't need clarification on Procyon because it was a novote for me either way.
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