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Author Topic: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver  (Read 2302 times)

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RisingJaguar

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Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« on: June 25, 2012, 01:46:36 pm »
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The Game: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120326-102040-5c2a480d.html

Key cards, Ambassador, Colony/Platinum, Haven, Nothing else.

I meant to post this awhile ago as ARTJoMS had some interesting things to say to me.  Essentially, he told me that my choice of double ambassador was a horrible decision in general, especially BM.  I responded that a Colony BM game is longer and helps my double ambassador choice.  Also the fact that there is Haven gives me two things.  Avoids terminal collision better and something to purchase at $2.  I also think that at worst, I come away with ambassador two coppers and purchase a silver/haven. 

Now he also said I won because I was lucky, and its pretty evident that T3/T4 could not have gone better for me so I don't disagree there.  What I am curious is that I think that amb/amb (in this board) is competitive if not better for the reasons I said above.  Or was it just because I am lucky this one time and using this to springboard my argument?

You can comment on the game itself, but it's not that interesting after T4...
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DG

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 02:00:37 pm »
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It depends upon the kingdom. Ambassador/silver aims for strong cards at cost 5 that outclass the ambassador. Double ambassador is helped by handy 2 cost cards. Looks pretty straightforward for this kingdom.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 02:02:15 pm »
+5

I meant to post this awhile ago as ARTJoMS had some interesting things to say to me. 

Didn't you know that if you beat him, it was due to BS luck overcoming your terrible decisions?
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jonts26

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 02:23:35 pm »
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Double Amb is much better on this board. I usually only open amb/silver when there are $5 cards I really want asap, like hunting party, but with no $2 targets, you can still make an argument for it. This game does have a $2 target and no good $5 cards so double amb has to be the winning play.
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qmech

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 02:48:20 pm »
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That's one of the weakest Kingdoms I've ever seen.  I had to count to make sure there were 10 cards.

I don't think I've come across a case where Ambassador/BM was so good before.
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Obi Wan Bonogi

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 02:51:35 pm »
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ARTjoMS wrong about a build?  I'm flabbergasted.
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Eevee

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 03:01:40 pm »
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I'm terrible at colony, but double ambassador looks better.
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DrFlux

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 04:02:05 pm »
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This game is also yet another illustration of contraband being awful. It gets worse the better opponents you play against, because its not that hard to track roughly how much money an opponent could have and what their deck needs. Especially here where there really aren't that many good alternate options.
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ftl

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 04:28:22 pm »
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I think the rules of thumb that I'm starting to accumulate about Amb/Amb vs Amb/Silver is:

1) If there are 2-cost cards that you want, might as well start Amb/Amb because you can still get to 2 on an amb hand
2) If there are 5-cost cards that you really want, might as well start Amb/Silver and have reasonable odds of chance of picking up the 5-cost card and the second amb after the first shuffle
3) I think if you're P2, that's a slight point in favor of Amb/Amb because you'll get junk in your deck a turn earlier, and need to keep up with the Ambing so it doesn't spiral out of control?
4) If your opponent does not buy any ambassadors at all, and you think that the board is still Amb-friendly, then a single ambassador is probably enough, so amb/silver.
5) Conversely, if you intend to win the Amb war, and your opponent gets an Amb or two, you have to get two Ambs of your own (or an engine to play the single Amb more often), so Amb/Silver should be used to pick up a second Amb on T3 or T4, if you didn't go Amb/Amb? 
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Jorbles

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 04:45:36 pm »
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Contrabands actually seem so bad on this board, that I thought RJ must have bought one just to shove it into his opponents deck at some point. There's nothing to buy except for treasure and victory cards. The choices of what to prohibit are so trivial that a Contraband is almost as bad as an Estate.
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blueblimp

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Re: Amb/Amb vs. Amb/Silver
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 05:35:49 pm »
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The choices of what to prohibit are so trivial that a Contraband is almost as bad as an Estate.

It's not that bad in a Colony game, because it can be difficult to choose between banning Gold and Platinum early on, and a little later Platinum vs Province, and later Colony vs Province.

It does fail the Silver test in this game, though. On turn 9, if the Contraband were a Silver, ARTjoMS could buy a Gold instead of a Harem. On turn 10, the double Haven purchase is a bit suspect anyway, so I'm not convinced of the value of the +buy. On turn 11, if the Contraband were a Silver and the Harem a Gold (since it's the one bought on turn 9), then ARTjoMS would have $9, enough for Platinum. Instead he settles for a Gold and a Haven.
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