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WanderingWinder

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2012, 02:33:43 pm »
+2

Comments on my playoff match with inverseParanoid. Don't have the logs at this point - when rrenaud gets all moved and settled and CR is back, I will try to get them up. In the meantime, there's the videos. If someone wants to move this, because they think it fits better somewhere else, feel free.

Game 1: So he goes for a little bit of upgrade along with BM-Oracle, basically, and I more or less am BM-smithy. I wondered at some point if Chancellor/Stash may have been the way to go here, but sims seem to think otherwise, relatively convincingly. Strategically, I'm not so hot on upgrade here, especially without trying to pound like 5 of them, which I don't see that much reason to do on this board anyway. Moreover, though, my willingness to just slide into provinces when I am hitting 8, or just when the board is getting vaguely close to ending (even in lieu of platinum here), I think are pretty big. But biggest is most likely shuffle luck?

Game 2: He gets an early mint, which hurts me a bit. But I can come back and grab one of my own to stabilize things ok. But he gets a little bit of a lead, and I'm playing catch-up as player 2. Then comes the very very very interesting moment. Turn 21. About 6:40 into the video. I am behind 56-53, with 2 colonies, 2 provinces left. I have $14 and 2 buys. I know that he has the chance to get some multiples buys also. I have some options: colony + estate, colony and a building card like trade route or silver (don't increment the trade route mat), province + duchy, or duchy + duchy. It's a very long think, and I in the end go duchy/duchy. Perhaps a mistake, but it's very hard to tell. Then we each have a dud hand, and before my next massive hand gets to play... he province/province off a massive hand of his own, and wins off first player. This really felt like theft at the time I played it.

Game 3: Bit of an ugly board with no village in sight. I try to roll with some upgrades, he gets a gold before his first goons, but apparently the upgrades are not so good here after he starts being able to goons me all the time, he gets goons, and I get just shut out of contention. A bit confused on this one, to be honest.

Game 4: I take secret chamber over silver, looking to build a big minion/market engine with villages. Quarry is out, which I intend to use to really build up. Mining villages are also out. Things basically go to plan here for me. He gets a trading post (not as an opener), which I just don't like so much here. Piles start running down, but he goes after them too aggressively with not much of a lead, and that leaves the door open for me. I put it away.

Game 5: Pretty darn weak board. I go for island. He gets warehouse as an opener (seems questionable) along with smugglers. I get the turn 3 smugglers, which I love from 1st player. And then we go to town. No 5s at all on the board, and I get 5 so many times early on, it seems. Anyway, all game I feel like I have a slightly better deck with a small lead, and then I get to buying provinces phase, and his smugglers (he had to smuggle smugglers on turn 3...) are dead. If we'd done the best of 5 thing, I would be won here....

Game 6: We get 2/5 split on an ambassador/tournament board. By the way, if you're looking for 1st-turn advantage, an amb/tournament board is a good place to start. I go double amb, he only gets one, and while I get a lead in the deck-size war, I got oodles of amb collision and not a ton to do with it, and it's only a very slight lead. Meanwhile, he can connect stuff together pretty well, gets a gold somehow, province pretty early, wins a prize, has a chance to win all the prizes.... oofda. I feel like fewer ambassadors and I get snowballed under. Probably would have helped if I saw golem as a way to play multiple actions sooner. So we get into the infinite final set at the tennis major......

Game 7: Wharf game. I spend way too long building my draw, whereas he gets some money, and is able to build a nice double wharf every turn engine later anyway. Meanwhile, I have like no money. I am destroyed, outplayed here.

Game 8: I have to break serve here and win as p2, or I am toast. Fortunately, I like the board, and I like what I do here. remake into border village/minion, and, very importantly, monuments out the wazoo. Peddlers are out too, but no +buys. Cellar as well. He gets caravans early rather than monuments.... which I think is a decently substantial mistake. It's not super clear about who's doing better for a while, but eventually it crystalizes that I'm in the driver's seat, and I'm able to eventually remake a monument into a minion, buy the last minion, to pile out with a 1 point lead. On the other hand, my other option was playing a monument and getting the penultimate province to give myself a nice-sized lead, so it wasn't that I'd just gotten THE perfect draw or something.

Game 9: So much forge! He gets one very early, which I jester, but then he jesters back my first platinum before I play it. Overall, I think slightly better jester luck favored him, and I had some nasty terminal collisions (somewhat due to me jestering like excess forges from him) which didn't help me, but he also played well. And he won decently cleanly here.

Game 10: Again, my back is to the wall. I go wishing well instead of silver for familiars, and it pays off. Increased cycling is pretty good too. And then I just get a massive massive economic lead and steamroll him.

Game 11: Scrying pool game with swindlers and governors. I like my hamlet gets. We both hilariously play the inter-combination of scrying pool with swindler and governor's draw ability. Anyway, he gets out to what seems to be a lead, in deck quality, but is unable to maintain/break through. A key point is where he's forced to swindle one of my provinces into a province. Cripples his comeback chances.

Game 12: University. He gets a big Governor lead, a city lead, and it's too much. He uses first turn well, and piles me out.

Game 13: Very strange game. I see a big engine, which is good except... there's tactician forge, which he hits early. So he has a pretty substantial lead, and, I think he ought to convert that into a win by racing provinces before I'm ready. But he follows me into building an engine, where I'm actually ahead. And a forge of my own helps a lot. I am drawing my whole deck, and his margraves make sure I have a kick-start to my engine. And the bishops are big, chewing things up and making points. I have extra bishops. We both get bureaucrats to not run out of gas. And after an epic penultimate turn, where he closes in, he can't follow it up with another to tie, and I pull out the win.

Personman

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2012, 04:41:26 pm »
0

Day 1 Semifinals has just completed.

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-121625-564a0621.html
#1 knaacku + Personman
#3 pirate ship economist
#4 CieloAzor

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-122917-2f80af7a.html
#1 pirate ship economist
#2 knaacku + CieloAzor
#4 Personman

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-125726-9e8e933b.html
#1 Personman
#2 knaacku
#3 pirate ship economist
#4 CieloAzor

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-133350-8520fe30.html
#1 Personman
#2 pirate ship economist
#3 CieloAzor
#4 knaacku

Final standings:
#1 Personman with 18pts, 6+0+6+6
#2 pirate ship economist with 14pts, 2+6+2+4
#2 knaacku with 14pts, 6+4+4+0
#4 CieloAzor with 6pts, 0+4+0+2

EDIT: The email that was sent to the participants didn't mention anything about this, but pirate ship economist tells me that ties are scored as the average of the position tied for and the one below. If that mattered, I would probably want to contest it, since it wasn't in the email, which I took to be the complete official rules. But happily it doesn't, and gives us:

#1 Personman with 17pts, 5+0+6+6
#2 pirate ship economist with 15pts, 2+6+3+4
#2 knaacku with 11pts, 5+3+3+0
#4 CieloAzor with 5pts, 0+3+0+2
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 04:53:47 pm by Personman »
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nopawnsintended

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2012, 04:45:42 pm »
0

Congrats Personman!  All the games were hard fought and interesting.  Best of luck in the finals.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2012, 06:29:36 pm »
0

EDIT: The email that was sent to the participants didn't mention anything about this, but pirate ship economist tells me that ties are scored as the average of the position tied for and the one below. If that mattered, I would probably want to contest it, since it wasn't in the email, which I took to be the complete official rules. But happily it doesn't, and gives us:

#1 Personman with 17pts, 5+0+6+6
#2 pirate ship economist with 15pts, 2+6+3+4
#2 knaacku with 11pts, 5+3+3+0
#4 CieloAzor with 5pts, 0+3+0+2

Glad it didn't matter.  For completeness, this accounting of the ties is off.  For one, knaacku took second outright in the second game by taking one fewer turn.  For another, I had one fewer point than knaacku in the third game (again, he was a solid second).

#1 Personman with 17pts, 5+0+6+6
#2 pirate ship economist with 14pts, 2+6+2+4
#2 knaacku with 13pts, 5+4+4+0
#4 CieloAzor with 4pts, 0+2+0+2

Still the same ordering (so it doesn't matter), but is good to clarify.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 07:15:36 pm by nopawnsintended »
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theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2012, 06:36:22 pm »
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Ah, yes.  I forgot to specify that.  I'm happy it didn't lead to a conflict.

For future reference, yes ties should be the avg of points.
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ednever

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #105 on: July 01, 2012, 10:14:16 am »
0

Day Three Semi-Final:

ednever 18 (2-1-3-1)
Mazwa 14 (1-4-1-3)
Fading 11 ([3]-3-2-2)
Kayo 5 ([3]-2-4-4)

The logs:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/01/game-20120701-061221-8b952aef.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/01/game-20120701-063029-2075cadb.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/01/game-20120701-064335-9f4d6c73.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/01/game-20120701-065614-19494631.html

Comments:

Game 1:
We open 5/2 on a Lab/Fool's Gold kingdom. I was thrid player. Both F and K ignored FG. I've been burned on FG in 4-player before (if three people go for them the other guy can usually go up the middle). But when p1 and p2 both say "no" it leaves a great opening. Both M and I went the FG route. I picked up two early WV on $4 and used it to take a three-FG turn which made a lot of difference.

M ends up taking it when I mistakenly turn 2 FG into Golds to pick up a province "next turn" instead of a Duchy this one. And it ends before my next turn, and I'm down 3 points...


Game 2:
Goons with Farming Village and Margrave. I think we all knew what the play here was, it was just tactical decisions. Goons is my best card according to CouncilRoom, so I did well here. I think M got unlucky as his deck composition looks right (if a little light on Goons)

Game 3:
I was playing fourth position. With split the match score was 10-6-3-5 for me, so my goal was just to not come in fourth - and I would have p1 position for the last game.  It was a silly board. We opened 5/2 with no $5 on the board. I decided to jut go super heavy into Barons with Scheme and Haven support, and then start greening really early with Duchies and Estates and hope to end on piles not in last place. It kind of worked. I was even ahead for a little while. On my last turn I took two Estates moving me into second place (by 2 points) and leaving a single estate behind that would let anyone end it (Duchies and Havens already gone). Unfortunately  F picked up a Province and jumped into 2nd and M ended it.

Score going into Game 4: 12-12-7-5

So I just needed to beat Mazwa in the last game

Game 4:
Another simple board. Big money with courtyard support. First choice was whether to open silver-CY or Mining Village-CY. I did the latter (likely a mistake?) and fell behind M in deck composition. I was worried.
But my draws were just a little luckier (and his were terrible - M, I think you got really unlucky in both this game and the Goons game) and I won it pretty comfortably.


Excited for the final!

Ed
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theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #106 on: July 01, 2012, 10:17:51 am »
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I think you guys are Day 4, right?
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Mazwa

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #107 on: July 01, 2012, 12:05:35 pm »
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Yes, Ed's group was the Day 4 group.

Very nice playing, Ed.  A couple comments:

Its kind of you to say I was unlucky on the Goons game, but I dont think so.  I went for upgrades, which was a big mistake in a game where we were all constantly playing with only 3 cards.  I had way too many discards where I had to decide whether to keep upgrade+copper in hand, or farming+margrave.  With margrave on the board i should have just went margrave and hoped to hit an early platinum like the 2 of you did.  Because once there were so many goons and margraves out there, I never had a chance to hit $9.   I also could have gone a bit more for points towards the end and potentially try to sneak into 3rd, but I actually didn't expect the game to end when it did.  You had done so many estate-estate-copper buys that I figured your deck was too junky for you to ever hit $12.

On the fool's gold game, I think you made the right call.  You trashed two fool's golds and bought an estate, then lost by 3.  You could have kept the golds, bought a duchy, but you still would have lost by 1.

I am quite surprised you won the last one though.  I was so pleased when I saw you open Mining Village/Courtyard, because I figured Silver/Courtyard was a much better opening.  And then I spiked a gold on turn 3.  I may have erred in buying a 2nd courtyard on turn 4 rather than a 2nd silver though.  I hit $11 on turn 7, which was a waste of money.  Hard to say beyond that in what way I got unlucky.  I didn't have any $7 hands thanks to the courtyards.  I would blame it on your extra turn, but you beat me by 9.


Fun games (quick ones too).  Good luck you in the final.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #108 on: July 01, 2012, 01:06:10 pm »
+2

Loooooooooooooooong write-up on my semi, as there aren't going to be in-game play videos. I think I will try to also make videos of me going through the logs to supplement though. Anyway, here's this (and again, feel free to move it):

Game 1: Here is the gameplan: in a 2-player or 3-player game, the engines will run absolutely rampant here - it is a GREAT engine board. But this is 4p, and I don't expect the game to last very long. Furthermore, since my opponents are also all going engine (which was pretty evident from the start), I can expect them to play a million margraves every turn. While this hurts me some, it also is not SO bad, because I can filter to something that is pretty close to my best 3-card hand all the time. So I think Hoard is very important to get here, because it will give me high money variance, which ought to be good with the filtering their margraves give me. I want a margrave or two myself, because it's just a good card, good card for money too, and then I want to blitz the green. Especially being fourth player, probably one of the engines will nip me anyway, but there's not a lot to do about that. I consider opening shanty town (someone needs to work out the shanty town/silver opening probabilities) but decide against it for two reasons. First, I think that silver/silver helps me be more likely to actually hit 6, and hoard is I THINK better than margrave for me here, though I do want both (also, ST should make it a little more likely to get 5, but if I get bad enough luck to miss 5 on silver/silver, I figure I'm probably toast anyways). Further, I think it will be SLIGHTLY less useful in the long term for the deck. I THINK.
Okay. Toaster and zxcvbn2 both open ironworks. I am very dubious of this decision. Sure, in a 2 player game, it might be ok. You want to grab lots of stuff, particularly FVs, for your engine. Actually, with KC and so many villages, I don't actually think I like the play there either. Here, though, it must be a pretty clear mistake. I mean, the you aren't really going to get more fishing villages this way than just buying them, with so many players (even moreso if I went with their plan also), and moreover, the game will be over too fast, and the ironworks are a bit slow.
allfail goes FV/Shanty town. I am not sure on this. Mostly, it's the shanty town. It labs you early, but an early lab isn't so great - the cards it draws are not so good, though I guess it does cycle you. The question is how likely does it make you to miss $5. I think decently likely, though most often you should still get it? But getting to 5 is MASSIVE here for that deck. Further, you have this shanty town which may not be so useful later on. Or it might be. But sometime, you're going to need cash.

Turn 3, toaster gets silver - I think I would have preferred FV. zxcvbn gets FV+FV, but I think I would have considered silver off the ironworks, then buying margrave (FV next turn). He has very little chance of getting a margrave this shuffle, the way he plays it. allfail get the perfect draw of FV on 3, so it doesn't miss the shuffle, and exactly $3 off his shanty town hand, meaning nothing is wasted here. I also get a very good draw for my hoard (though I wouldn't say that this isn't terribly lucky - it happens 42.4% of the time off a silver/silver opening!, not to mention that margrave is not so much better than hoard for me here - it's generally preferrable to get margrave before the first gold, even on $6, if hoard isn't around; actually, I'm not 100% that it's better to hoard than margrave even on what I draw).
Turn 4, and both toaster and zxcvbn can't get margrave. For some reason, allfail doesn't get a border village with his margrave. Not sure whether this was an oversight, or a strategic play against later opposing margraves/pile endings. But probably an oversight - especially with the shanty town and in the engine he wants to build, the BV must be a boon. I only get $2, which is a bit unfortunate - I don't expect this haven is actually going to be so good in my deck, and I'm not totally sure I even want it. But I think I do. Silver would have been much better though.

After EVERYONE gets a margrave turn 5, they all also get margraves turn 6, whereas I'm stuck with... another haven. They continue to build their engines up, but fortunately, my margrave comes up turn 7, and even off my 3-card+haven hand, I am able to snag the first province and a gold to boot off my hoard. The lead is big for me, because eventually their decks will be better, if the game doesn't end first.
And now the margraves start REALLY hopping. zxcvbn is the first to KC, but I get hit with SO many margraves, that I play mine again on turn 8, and I'm able to get another province with Gold. I feel pretty good about my position at that point, though I think I thought my most probable finish was 2nd.

And here the play becomes sort of scripted, they all play out their engines, I get to keep some good cards and buy something fairly decent. As in turn 9, I margrave, province/gold combo AGAIN. Even with getting attacked so much, this is pretty good fortune for me, of course. Oh. I should mention, the FVs are gone, the margraves down to 1 already, and I'm looking for potential piling options, though the next lowest is haven which get down to like 5.
They start to consistently province around here as well, just in time for me to get a dud hand - nothing better than haven, copper, silver. I store my silver away and buy... an estate, which could certainly be real important in the end, and can't hurt me much. allfail is charging hard, with the best engine of the other three, and double provinces on turn 11, putting him within striking distance. zxcvbn isn't doing so badly either. And on turn 12, allfail can't get his KC or harvest, and after some thought, ends the game a point behind me. I had the province on my next turn, and of course, being 4p, I had fewer turns than all of them anyway. So I don't feel like I really stole this one, though it's true that with a bit of a better draw, one of them (especially allfail) could easily have capitalized on their turn advantage and won.


Game 2: The fool's gold game. Truth be told, there's just sort of a power vaccuum here. There's not that much else to do. I have the 1p advantage and intend to use it. If all four of them follow, I probably 'win' the split, and they can't expect to be in better position than me. If 2 follow (as happens), then I probably win the split and actually have a decent number of FG. If only one follows, I get a really nice amount of FG for what will likely be a short game. And if none follow, well, I ought to be golden. Also 4 players means a lot of chances to use the reaction, in all likelihood. Furthermore, salvager is really good to pair with FG, as well as being a good front-running card.
Now, three people follow me, which sort of surprises me actually, and one goes remake/silver. I am not sure, but maybe silver/silver into stables is better, given the context? It's hard to say. Salvager/silver also has a shot. I actually think he has a pretty good shot though, being the one and only contrarian.
Anyway, I win the split 4/3/3, which is good - probably a little better than average, but it has to be the most expected, being 1p. zxcvbn gets an early stables and mediocre remake luck. allfail turns 4 into a mining village, whereas toaster prefers a remake (don't like that play, but maybe it's ok?).
Turn 5 allfail and I get stables, zxcvbn gets a pretty good kick to finish off remaking his estates, gaining 3 silvers in the turn to boot, and toaster is able to trash an estate and copper AND get a stables - pretty good luck all for the last two, okay for us first two, but we do have unmatched FGs in there.

Then the beginning of turn 6 stuff starts to happen. I drop estate #2, getting another stables, and then allfail is able to match his two FGs left with 3 copper, getting a province without needing to trash his MV. After some thought, I decide to give up my 3FG hand for golds, thinking they'll be good in the long run, particularly with salvager and farmland out. But it's not the easiest call ever.
allfail is then able to stables into ANOTHER province on turn 7, and I feel in pretty bad shape. Of course I end up playing both stables (on coppers at least) in my hand with 3 golds, and end up with salvager, 3 copper, 3 gold, about to reshuffle. I can quite double province, but it would take me salvaging one gold, farmlanding another to province, and (perhaps wrongly) I think this will leave me too crippled. So I just salvage a copper and grab province and silver. allfail follows up by saccing a mining village and salvaging a gold (which he'd just top-decked off my provine buy) to get another province (I cash in my last FG as well), and I feel in... not great shape. And the other two are grabbing provinces also at this point.
Then allfail and I have dud hands - I turn $4 into a great hall, seeing the game ending soon, and allfail instead chooses to grab a mining village with his rather miserable draw of 4 copper and a salvager. zxcvbn gets another province, which allfail uses to turn his last two FG into gold. I am not sure about this decision, as it gives him exactly nothing right now, and the game is about to end. On the other hand, it does give him a good hand after, which he could use to likely smash down another, perhaps conclusive province.

Turn 10 I again get three golds together, with my salvager, (and two copper) and... I think I make a definite mistake here. I sac a gold and buy province and duchy, but maybe it's better to hold a gold back, farmland it into province, and buy a duchy, for two more points? I was worried about my economy prematurely collapsing. But as luck as it, allfail has his total dud, and the other two get remaining provinces number 4 and 3, so the game is ending like right away. I have two of the three golds left (I had three, not two, at that point - on of them gets trashed here, and I end up with 2 after that), along with 3 copper, which is enough to farmland one into a province, giving me a 6 point lead over allfail. Well, this is a pretty good thing for me, above average for sure, but on the other hand, there are lots situations that are even better, revolving entirely around salvager, where I either can get a duchy rather than farmland or get both provinces (trashing one of my existing ones in the process most likely), ending in an outright win.
Fortunately enough for me, allfail is only able to buy the last province, and nothing more, to tie, not giving zxcvbn a chance to overtake (which he may well have) on an equalizing turn, and making my earlier mistakes not hurt too much.


Game 3:
The Young Witch game. Not really a good game to go last. I even consider going haven/haven here, but after toaster buys a cutpurse, that's scuttled. Probably bad anyway. Well, the thing is, haven is a pretty good bane, but it's really apt to miss reshuffles. And also they run out FAST. So I see a 3-pile ending happening on curses, havens, and... something. I also see huge curse slogs happening. There is so much going on here, I'm not going to make as in depth comments. If you want that, tune in to the videos I'm going to make of the logs. It's just a lot to type.
In brief: I like my talisman buy, I get pretty good luck, especially on the curse front. zxcvbn gets golems but ends up not having much in the way of actions to go with, and I think repeatedly makes mistakes by playing havens before young witches on golem choices. toasters ghost ships are... pretty well just bad in such games, I think. I mean, not TERRIBLE, but they do not have all that much of a devastating effect, as we are used to. And even with FV, forget about an engine in this slog. The cutpurses hurt, but you can't have enough haven cover to make YW not hurt more. I repeatedly get pretty lucky to nab exactly 8 and provinces, but I think I played fairly well anyway. I have enough of a lead that I consider trying to manipulate game-end timing to try to get allfail not in 2nd (I feel zxcvbn has a stronger long-term deck than him), but I don't have enough  to really feel comfortable avoiding duchies enough. zxcvbn ends on the same number of points as allfail, but with an extra turn, so a place behind. WEll, you can argue that he should have waited to try to get 2nd, as he's pretty clearly ahead of toaster, so there's basically no danger there, but on the other hand, he also has pretty darn small chances of actually passing allfail, with only 1 duchy left, so I can't really blame him too much.


Game 4: There is a lot of talk before this game. Somehow zxcvbn and/or toaster don't even realize I haven't clinched yet. They're totally out of it, and I have a 4 point lead over allfail AND own the tiebreak, so basically he needs to win with me getting last (or tie for first with me getting last, or get outright first with my tying for 3rd/last) for me not to advance. He jokes that everyone should collude against me, and I argue back to just play normal. Well, I don't think it was serious anyway, and even less think that the other two were actually going to do that. allfail has 1st here, but I have 2nd. I have sort of 2 goals, and I only need to actually hit one of them. Get first, or make sure allfail doesn't. He thinks for a long time before making his first move here, while this joking around is going on, and he says something to the effect that he wants to take the similar strategy to me, so that he can stay close? Well, I don't understand it exactly, and if that's what he actually means, I really don't understand it strategically. Maybe he was trying to take a psychological ploy and make me play differently from him. I don't know, but I basically played what I thought was overall straight best. Which is to play the luck game and go familiars. The big decidign factor, or a big supporting factor, anyway, is the presence of philosopher's stone, which should help me in the long run. I am also very prepared to rush VP (and tunnel is out too) if need be, to make sure I don't get last. Not last = I win. Anyway, everyone opens potion/silver, except allfail, who goes for baron.

And right off the bat, he gets a province. Now, I'm not actually sure how good a luck this is - I tend to think that this early, gold is better. But it is the fast-ending 4 player game, and with an impending curse slog, there may not be many more chances. Also, tournament is on the board. Well, I rather stupidly get a tournament after this happens for him, and right afterwards, I kick myself. I mean, I thought tournament ought to be good, because it's just a peddler, and nobody's getting provinces... like ever, right? Because normally I don't think tournament is very good in 4p - too many other people to block. Well, I luck out and this ends up not really hurting me. But I do think baron was way better for me there.
Moreover, I get extremely lucky, in that I get familiar on turn 4. And 6. And 8. Meanwhile, the two other guys with potions fail to hit until... turn 9. Heck, allfail ends up giving more curses than the two of them combined, off two plays of followers.

Now, governors are in play, and everybody rushes them. I don't know that this is so great here as it usually is, because there's like no chance to actually chain them very well - it's hard for anyone to get so many, and the decks are filled with junk. And when you can't chain them, governor isn't so great of a card.
I load up on baron after my initial probably-a-mistake of getting a tournament. This is really good here, I think, for a few reasons. People playing governor for draw lets me connect them, I can defensively trash them, and the gaining estates is actually really good for me - it's some points, and I can run them out, espeically in conjunction with allfail's followers, and since the governors end up actually emptying pretty fast (I snag the last one more to empty them than anything else), I am sitting pretty. But mostly it's down to my huge cursing advantage. Somehow, my greenstorm combined with the curse cloud actually gets me ahead of allfail, which is peachy great, but that wasn't really the point in my mind - the point was that I was miles from last.



A couple more overall notes. First, I got pretty darn lucky. I did not play perfect, but I think I played fairly well, too, though. I am most proud of game 1. allfail played well too, and also got decently lucky. The others I veel played a touch worse and got a touch worse luck, but it's not normally enough that they should be getting 3rd and 4th EVERY time. So, the completely huge nature of the gaps in the results is artificially large, for sure. There was not all that much differentiation.
There was a little bit of a note with me turning off allfail's point counter plug-in, without asking. Well, I had thought about this after the playoff, and I knew that I wanted to turn it off no matter waht. I find it extremely rude to ask permission to do something and then NOT abide by the answer, but I was turning the thing off no matter what, so I didn't ask him. Probably it would have been better had I told him that I was doing it before I did, but oh well. Didn't think of that in the 10 seconds between noticing it was on and actually disabling it.

yuma

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #109 on: July 01, 2012, 01:40:08 pm »
0

I think I will try to also make videos of me going through the logs to supplement though. Anyway, here's this (and again, feel free to move it):

I like this idea. Learning from logs after a game is something I struggle with and would like to improve upon. There can be such a wealth of information in a log it is hard to know what to concentrate on.
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timchen

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifying Day Results
« Reply #110 on: July 01, 2012, 02:23:24 pm »
+1

Quote
For some reason, allfail doesn't get a border village with his margrave. Not sure whether this was an oversight, or a strategic play against later opposing margraves/pile endings. But probably an oversight - especially with the shanty town and in the engine he wants to build, the BV must be a boon.
Yeah, completely forgotten about BV. The shanty town buy I thought later may help my harvest (and it did.) The border village can potentially do the same, I just forgot I could get it right there. This game as progressed I thought I had decent chance to win it, as I have the best engine by intentionally not getting to treasures and use KC/harvest to get coins. The early shanty town I think is overall better than a silver here, because I can take advantage of its +actions and its extra cycling. The chances need to be calculated, though, but considering the case when they both appear in turn 3/4, the only extra case comparing to silver that cannot get to $5 is if I draw $4 at turn 3 without FV and Shanty Town. There is also a slight gain when my turn 3 shanty town draws FV. So overall I think it is not that bad for getting to $5.

Quote
I have two of the three golds left (I had three, not two, at that point - on of them gets trashed here, and I end up with 2 after that), along with 3 copper, which is enough to farmland one into a province, giving me a 6 point lead over allfail. Well, this is a pretty good thing for me, above average for sure, but on the other hand, there are lots situations that are even better, revolving entirely around salvager, where I either can get a duchy rather than farmland or get both provinces (trashing one of my existing ones in the process most likely), ending in an outright win.
I forgot your last FG. So indeed you still had 3 gold left. Ok, so probably not really that a huge hand as I have thought. (I was probably biased by the fact that I could only get 3 FG)

Quote
He jokes that everyone should collude against me, and I argue back to just play normal. Well, I don't think it was serious anyway, and even less think that the other two were actually going to do that. allfail has 1st here, but I have 2nd. I have sort of 2 goals, and I only need to actually hit one of them. Get first, or make sure allfail doesn't. He thinks for a long time before making his first move here, while this joking around is going on, and he says something to the effect that he wants to take the similar strategy to me, so that he can stay close? Well, I don't understand it exactly, and if that's what he actually means, I really don't understand it strategically. Maybe he was trying to take a psychological ploy and make me play differently from him.
You have misunderstood me there. I was talking about the previous game for the whole time. I meant I should have just taken the hit and got YW after you did, even though it probably meant that I gave the edge to toaster who went cutpurse. In that particular game at 4th seat I felt if I went YW I was just in a bad shape, (last player out of the 3 players who went YW) and I decided just to try something different. But of course, playing this way I think I just handed the game to either you or zxcvbn (if he hadn't gone potion), with myself and toaster down there, which is what I didn't want at all (except somehow probably due to toaster's epic bad luck I managed to steal a second there). Thus the comment at the beginning for the last game.

For the last game, I could have thrown the dice and go familiar too-- but that will actually give WW a better chance by not getting the familiar. This is why I have thought about this for a long time. The 4th place would probably belong to a player going familiar and draw 2+P. On the other hand, if 3 players are going for familiars, I might do okay w/o one if they all get their familiar in time (or if WW missed it, that would be even better.) My plan was to go baron-governor-province-tournament, hope to connect before too many curses creep in my deck. (Or in the worst case, getting a few governors and golds in exchange for 2-3 more curses, should be handy at getting Duchies.) But it turned out that WW was the only one that were cursing, and it pretty much guaranteed him a win.

I dunno why I always have to lose to WW in tournaments, which I really hate to do. But truth is he plays better. At least more consistent. So best of luck in the finals!
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jtl005

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Finals results
« Reply #111 on: July 02, 2012, 05:19:57 pm »
+3

We played 5 games because after the 5th the results were decided.  The final score is:

21 points: jtl005
12 points: ednever
12 points: personman

The gamelogs are shown below:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/02/game-20120702-124248-9eca17ec.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/02/game-20120702-130507-c5d07eec.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/02/game-20120702-132826-4d28b281.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/02/game-20120702-135602-322c4422.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/02/game-20120702-140844-93a7a061.html

Good games.

Question: do I have to do anything to accept my award?  Whoever is in charge please email me about the logistics/travel plan.  Also if I have to adhere to any schedule or other such details.  I'm totally new to this kind of thing.  I'm kind of curious how it will be verified that jtl005=me in real life.
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jtl005

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Re: Finals results
« Reply #112 on: July 02, 2012, 05:23:07 pm »
0

Oh also where could I find more detailed rules on nationals? (For instance, what format it is, if it's 2p, 3p, or 4p, notetaking allowed, etc.)
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theory

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Re: Finals results
« Reply #113 on: July 02, 2012, 05:24:21 pm »
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Congratulations!

I'll put you in contact with Jay via email.
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timchen

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2012, 05:56:41 pm »
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Probably not the best thing to say, but it's kind of a pity to see someone only has 3 posts winning... not to mention at least two are in this thread.
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Rabid

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #115 on: July 02, 2012, 05:58:53 pm »
+1

Congratulations jtl005 !
Welcome to the forum.
Good luck at nationals.
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Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #116 on: July 02, 2012, 05:58:59 pm »
+4

Hopefully this will spur jtl005 to become a more active member of the community :)
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Qvist

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2012, 06:10:18 pm »
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Congrats and I agree. Hopefully we here some more from you jtl005.

theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #118 on: July 06, 2012, 05:40:56 pm »
+1

jtl005 has decided not to attend Nationals.  As a result, he is disqualified from advancing.

The finals consisted of six games, but the sixth game was not actually played.  In the five games played, both ednever and Personman earned 12 rank points.  However, ednever started from third position twice, second position twice, and first position only once, whereas Personman started from third position once, second position twice, and first position twice.  Given the fact that the last game would have had ednever in first position and Personman in third position, ednever will be considered the champion of the qualifier, and I have submitted his name to Jay.  Hopefully Jay will permit him to advance in jtl005's place.
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Personman

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #119 on: July 06, 2012, 05:53:18 pm »
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Can we not have a playoff? That was the stated tournament rule for breaking ties.

Just to nip any further drama in the bud, if we do have a playoff, I will record and post video of me not using any external memory aid whatsoever, including paper. I could even upload actual video from a camera of me sitting at my computer so you can tell for sure : )
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 05:56:22 pm by Personman »
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theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2012, 05:57:06 pm »
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The tournament rules for breaking ties assumed that all games had been played.  Given the imbalances in seating order, this seemed to be the most fair way to adjudicate an incomplete but tied match, akin to P1 losing on turns.
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O

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2012, 05:59:50 pm »
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The tournament rules for breaking ties assumed that all games had been played.  Given the imbalances in seating order, this seemed to be the most fair way to adjudicate an incomplete but tied match, akin to P1 losing on turns.

Did you even ask Ednever? If you haven't asked Ednever whether he's fine with a playoff, I think this ruling is so obviously tainted that if it stood I would probably just leave this community.
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Personman

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2012, 06:00:43 pm »
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Well, we could just finish the match instead. Since jtl005 presumably doesn't care to play, this would just look like a single 2p game between me and ednever. If jtl005 does want to play, he would be welcome to.

We didn't finish out the match because we all thought it was decided and ednever had expressed a need to move on with his day. I never dreamed I might be punished in this way for not insisting that we play out the full match, which I apparently should have done.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 06:03:02 pm by Personman »
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2012, 06:03:51 pm »
+5

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theory

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Re: DominionStrategy Qualifer Results
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2012, 06:04:30 pm »
0

The tournament rules for breaking ties assumed that all games had been played.  Given the imbalances in seating order, this seemed to be the most fair way to adjudicate an incomplete but tied match, akin to P1 losing on turns.

Did you even ask Ednever? If you haven't asked Ednever whether he's fine with a playoff, I think this ruling is so obviously tainted that if it stood I would probably just leave this community.
Well, you know, if I asked ednever, I assume he'd say he didn't want a playoff.  Whether or not he or Personman wants one should be irrelevant.

I'd like for you to play a 3p playoff match.  But what, do you just insert a random third person as P2?
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