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Author Topic: Ambassador vs Chapel?  (Read 3536 times)

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theory

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Ambassador vs Chapel?
« on: June 12, 2011, 10:07:53 pm »
+2

Here's a game where I opened with 5/2 against a 4/3 on an Ambassador board.  I went for Horse Traders/Chapel, hopeing to deflect his Ambassadors and trash down into a Warehouse/Conspirator deck, but as you can see it was quite unsuccessful.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110531-080957-ee6ea144.html

Is it just generally true that Chapel is always going to lose to Ambassador? What situations can Chapel's superior trashing power beat Ambassador's attack?
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papaHav

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Re: Ambassador vs Chapel?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 10:36:22 pm »
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I think warehouse early game is the perfect example of where ambassador is better than chapel.
2xtrash+attack is preferred if you never get the full 4xtrash out =\

Imho... however if the econ gains from trashing accelerated faster you'd prefer chapel as conspirators are explosive endgame but don't have a great low-gear when you're battling with trashing
Something like chapel/workers village/peddler-xyz I would lean towards chapel because you get the full 4x trash constantly... econ boost from trashing is greater... and the attack would soon become insignificant
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Saucery

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Re: Ambassador vs Chapel?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 11:55:09 pm »
+1

In a game with handsize decreasers like this, ambassador can usually maintain its full effect whereas chapel can't. In order for chapel to beat it I think you needed to be trashing 4 at once every time not 3. I also noticed how fast his deck cycled compared to yours due to the early warehouse and tournament buys, leading to an ambassador play virtually every turn.

Tournament/ambassador is also ranked#2 in best openers behind mountebank/chapel. I think tourney gets a bad rep as an opener because people tend to keep buying more. I mean getting an early treasury is great but stacking them isn't.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 01:51:24 am by Saucery »
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chwhite

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Re: Ambassador vs Chapel?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 12:40:00 am »
0

Here's a game where I opened with 5/2 against a 4/3 on an Ambassador board.  I went for Horse Traders/Chapel, hopeing to deflect his Ambassadors and trash down into a Warehouse/Conspirator deck, but as you can see it was quite unsuccessful.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110531-080957-ee6ea144.html

Is it just generally true that Chapel is always going to lose to Ambassador? What situations can Chapel's superior trashing power beat Ambassador's attack?

Well, I'd certainly prefer Chapel in Possession games...
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boloni

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Re: Ambassador vs Chapel?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 09:34:12 am »
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I think chapel if often the better choice.
According to councilroom.com I played 8 games so far which had ambassador and chapel and I won every single one of them opening with chapel. In three of the games I bought or gained an ambassador later, but I only really used it in one of them to give curses to my opponent.

But I agree that cycling with a warehouse favors ambassador. On the other hand chapel should be better in games where you can draw your whole deck every turn, because chapel makes it easier to keep your deck clean once you build your engine. I think it's very important in ambassador games to build and maintain the ability to draw your whole deck every turn, if the setup allows it. Otherwise you could get swamped by bad cards in the midgame if your opponent plays several ambassadors per turn.
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DG

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Re: Ambassador vs Chapel?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 12:27:37 pm »
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It all depends on the kingdom. I've generally gone for the ambassador but the chapel can be just as good. I wouldn't even want to start providing any general rules as to when either might be better since there are so many variations. You can throw masquerades, lookouts, stewards, and remakes into the mix as well as they all have their day.
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