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Author Topic: What card is worst for you?  (Read 17932 times)

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cayvie

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What card is worst for you?
« on: June 17, 2012, 11:04:48 pm »
+2

I've managed to get a Win Rate given available > 1 with every card in Dominion.

Except one.

Cache, stupid card, I apparently have no idea when to buy you. -4.04 effect without is pretty damning.
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michaeljb

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 01:13:10 am »
0

It's a decent opener, it's good with alt VP, it's an excellent buy with trader or watchtower in hand, and that's about it off the top of my head. It's not really one of the big power 5's, but in a BM type game the 2 Coppers aren't too damaging.
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iangoth

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 01:15:00 am »
0

Treasury is my worst card. I think I got overwhelmed by it a few times when I was new to the game and have tried way too hard to do that to my opponents since then.

Incidentally, Cache somehow managed to become by 3rd best card by winrate given avail. It's not so bad in big money games, and the coppers can actually help when you're greening or swimming in curses.
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jsh357

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 02:08:40 am »
0

Scrying Pool.  We either both go for it and my master plan blows up in my face or I think it's nonviable and my opponent proves me wrong.
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qmech

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 04:50:28 am »
0

In terms of win rate given available, it's apparently Margrave at 1.02.  That surprised me, as it's not a card I feel I have particular problems with (unlike Governor, who's lurking a few spots further up).  Looking further up the list, the bottom is heavily weighted towards Hinterlands, which suggests that there's a significant time factor involved: like most people I had a bit of a wobble when Hinterlands came out, and the general standard seems to have risen significantly since then.
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brokoli

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 05:53:13 am »
0

Cache is a nice card, better than Contraband I think.

My worst card is... fishing village. I buy it too often instead of a silver...
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Asklepios

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 07:20:53 am »
0

Surprisingly to me, Councilroom gives my worst card from (winrate where avail) as Mining Village. I still do better with it than the average player, it seems, but its my only <1.0 card.

I consider myself surprised by this as I always thought I used this card quite well, timing its trashing for cash very sensibly. Where it looks like I may have gone wrong is that I've been buying it way more than the average. Likely there have been a lot of times when I should have gone silver/silver and instead went mining village / silver.
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yudantaiteki

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 07:43:31 am »
0

My worst is apparently Throne Room.
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pingpongsam

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 08:53:47 am »
0

Philosopher's Stone and Transmute.

Ironically, my win rate is favored for Alchemy cards.

I noticed that I stand a decent chance of winning if I buy Possession but I stand even better chances of winning if I do not.
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Kahryl

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 09:01:38 am »
0

Tactician. It.. just doesn't like me. It doesn't work for me, ever, and always seems to work for the enemy.
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Qvist

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 09:25:37 am »
0

Tactician. It.. just doesn't like me. It doesn't work for me, ever, and always seems to work for the enemy.

Exactly. If I skip over Tactician, it's why I lose. If I buy Tactician, that's why I lose. It's my second worst card accoring to councilroom, only Noble Brigand is worse.

popsofctown

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 09:32:01 am »
0

It's a decent opener, it's good with alt VP, it's an excellent buy with trader or watchtower in hand, and that's about it off the top of my head. It's not really one of the big power 5's, but in a BM type game the 2 Coppers aren't too damaging.

Strong(er) against cursers.  Especially "no one has any money" cursing like sea hag.
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Watno

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 12:52:28 pm »
0

Im also in the "bad with hinterlands category", 7 out of my 8 worst cards are from that set, with only hamlet being mixed in. Worst is silk, road, which i seem to buy too often. Still all above 1.00 though (yay). Hinterlands is also my weakest set
Intrerstingly, my best card is Pearl Diver with 1.49 winrate given available. cant really explain that to myself.
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Archetype

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 01:28:37 pm »
0

It says my worst card is Mine. Which to me makes sense, I don't know exactly how to use it  ;D.

It also says my best is Caravan, which is kind of a surprise to me.
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pingpongsam

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 02:18:34 pm »
+1

It also says my best is Caravan, which is kind of a surprise to me.

That means you are not buying it too frequently. In other words take this as  an indication that you should NOT increase your buying of this card over your typical pattern.
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chwhite

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 02:44:05 pm »
0

Noble Brigand, by a country mile.  At first I thought "okay, better Thief, maybe I should try this", and lost with it, then I thought "nah this card is still garbage" and started to lose without it, often on the back of some early, lucky, Silver-stealing, and even now I'm trying to get a more nuanced picture of the card and not doing a very good job at that.  I mean, often it's irrelevant (and when other players know that too, which is usually, that evens the playing field), and when it's not irrelevant it promotes the sort of game I flail about with.  Also I sometimes pick it up as a desperation buy and that doesn't help.

There was a period where almost all of my "worst cards" were from Hinterlands, which is pretty common I suspect: we've had less time to get used to it, it upends/devalues a lot of traditional engine strategies in favor of decks that actually like Copper and Silver, some cards are very very tricky to use even in skilled hands (Develop, Mandarin) while others all too often lead to brainless, luck-heavy rushes (IGG, FG).  And the general level of competition on Iso has been steadily improving, so win rates are going to be down across the board.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 02:49:17 pm by chwhite »
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popsofctown

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 02:56:36 pm »
0

Have you picked up the player 2 reshuffle manipulation + 1/3 silver steal trick?  That's a large part of mastering the card I think.
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chwhite

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 03:01:03 pm »
0

Have you picked up the player 2 reshuffle manipulation + 1/3 silver steal trick?  That's a large part of mastering the card I think.

...Huh, you're right it is a one-in-three chance at stealing Silver for p2 on Turn 1.  That's higher than I thought, for whatever reason.  Also edges the card into "too frustratingly swingy" territory, to be honest.
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Piemaster

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 03:16:59 pm »
0

Strangely, my worst win rate given availability is Chancellor, way down at 0.88.  I can't really fathom this as I almost never buy Chancellor (0.05 buys per game) and to the best of my recollection I don't tend to lose to opponents who buy Chancellor either.  So this leads me to conclude that either:

a)  There is something weird about boards with Chancellor that don't directly involve Chancellor.  Maybe the fact that I am only choosing from 9 cards rather than 10 causes me to make worse decisions, or my opponent better or something.  OR

b)  Randomness is random.  I shouldn't read much into my worst rated card and neither should you.

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cayvie

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 03:19:54 pm »
0

Strangely, my worst win rate given availability is Chancellor, way down at 0.88.  I can't really fathom this as I almost never buy Chancellor (0.05 buys per game) and to the best of my recollection I don't tend to lose to opponents who buy Chancellor either.  So this leads me to conclude that either:

a)  There is something weird about boards with Chancellor that don't directly involve Chancellor.  Maybe the fact that I am only choosing from 9 cards rather than 10 causes me to make worse decisions, or my opponent better or something.  OR

b)  Randomness is random.  I shouldn't read much into my worst rated card and neither should you.

Your effect without is -2.75. Looks like you're losing when your opponents buy it and you do not :)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 03:21:11 pm »
0

Yeah, but he has 65 games where it's available. Which means only a few and his stats are really swung.
For comparison, I have 830 with it, which is still not terribly stable, I don't think. But a lot more stable, anyway.

brokoli

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2012, 03:28:36 pm »
0

Strangely, my worst win rate given availability is Chancellor, way down at 0.88.  I can't really fathom this as I almost never buy Chancellor (0.05 buys per game) and to the best of my recollection I don't tend to lose to opponents who buy Chancellor either.  So this leads me to conclude that either:

a)  There is something weird about boards with Chancellor that don't directly involve Chancellor.  Maybe the fact that I am only choosing from 9 cards rather than 10 causes me to make worse decisions, or my opponent better or something.  OR

b)  Randomness is random.  I shouldn't read much into my worst rated card and neither should you.

My win rate given availability is 1.06 and I buy it more often than you (0.36).
I'm not a very good player so maybe I buy it too often, but I think you simply underrate this card.
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Wingnut

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 03:29:33 pm »
0

For me it's Hunting Party but that can be easily explained. I hate the Hunting Party stack and think it very boring, especially in a mirror match. Therefore I never play it and often get beat by it (it is one of the few things I don't mind losing too because I so hate winning with it that I am happy to have not played using it).

If I cared to play Hunting Party optimally (it still wouldn't be great because I was awful with it when I first started), my lowest would be Philosopher's Stone. I only buy it 28% of the time but my Effect With is -2.06 and my Effect Without is a marginally better -1.91. In other words, it doesn't matter what I do, if this card is in the kingdom I am basically screwed for some reason. And if I knew the reason I would be a bit better with it.
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Robz888

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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2012, 03:48:31 pm »
0

My win rate given availability is only < 1 for exactly two cards.

Vineyard, which doesn't surprise me. I'm getting better with them, but for a long time, I was just clueless there.

But the other card shocked me: Monument! I'm terrible at Monument?? Also, Bishop and Goons are both in my bottom 10 win rate given availability. I guess I'm the world's worst VP Chip player.
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Re: What card is worst for you?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2012, 03:53:33 pm »
+1

I've been meaning to ask this forever.. how does one read the councilroom stats (for invidual cards)?
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