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[pokeman7452]

My friend that introduced me to Dominion did not like using Harems, and did not think they belonged in this otherwise family card game. He retitled and reimaged the card as an Abbey Church, and I decided to do the same. Here is the new card for anyone who is interested in replacing their own card.
(click for full)

[eHalcyon]

Saw the image and was gonna say, "that already exists!"

Good thing I read the description before replying. 

[Kahryl]

It doesn't make much sense for what it does.. but Harem makes even less sense!

[eHalcyon]

Well, it retains the flavour.  Victory point cards tend to be places (Nobles notwithstanding).  A harem may refer to a group of wives/concubines but it can also refer to a part of a residence reserved for that group.  An abbey is also a place that may be filled with women, though in this case they are nuns.

Abbey might have monks instead.  I think I would have gone with "Convent".

[pokeman7452]

I also did this humorous fix for another friend who did not like playing with Shanty Town (one of my favorite cards.)

"You should not take advantage of shanty towns, they should give you a curse when you use them."

[Morgrim7]

I also did this humorous fix for another friend who did not like playing with Shanty Town (one of my favorite cards.)

"You should not take advantage of shanty towns, they should give you a curse when you use them."

+1 for the humor. Wait, scratch that, for liking Shanty Town.

[CaptainNevada]

Harem doesn't belong in a "family card game" ... and Torturer does.  The logic escapes me, but maybe there is an explanation out there.  Or did he remake it as "Extremely Persuasive Person" ?

My friend that introduced me to Dominion did not like using Harems, and did not think they belonged in this otherwise family card game. He retitled and reimaged the card as an Abbey Church, and I decided to do the same. Here is the new card for anyone who is interested in replacing their own card.
(click for full)

[pokeman7452]

Harem doesn't belong in a "family card game" ... and Torturer does.  The logic escapes me, but maybe there is an explanation out there.  Or did he remake it as "Extremely Persuasive Person" ?

Well, he did make Witch->Vagabond and Curse->Plague, but I didn't want to go that far. I think a kid knows what a torturer is, even if the idea of using it isn't the best. I would rather not explain what a harem is to a child, and the image isn't helpful either in my opinion. Beyond that, to each his own.

[popsofctown]

I think the flavor for Victory point cards is that they are something you can show off to the lords of a different kingdom.  So lush Gardens, paved Silk Roads, subservient Nobles.. concubines.. and Great Halls and so on.

I have a lot more trouble figuring out how Harem is a treasure.

[eHalcyon]

Hmm, interesting take on it.  Though Tunnels don't quite strike me as something particularly royal.  Fairgrounds don't seem so brag-worthy to me either, but that might be because I imagine them to be creepy fog-covered abandoned Fairgrounds. 

Island sort of works, as does Vineyard.  Not sure about Farmland, but I guess you could gloat about having superior agricultural yield.

[Schlippy]

I personally think that possession, militia, thief, witch, scheme, conspiriator, torturer, black market, goons, rabble, cutpurse, young witch, sea hag and smugglers are far more severe in a "family game" than harem is. Might be that Europe/America thing though. Several of these are forbidden things in nearly every country, whereas harems are perfectly legal in quite a lot of countries.
That does not mean that I care at all about the fact that any of these cards are in a Dominion, even if I were playing it with exceptionally young or exceptionally old people.

[Nakamura]

The new name fits very well to the actual name of the card if you want the religious background and see an abbey as the house of god's harem (nuns or monks).

[nightdance]

There is nothing wrong with harems from history. Centuries of European misconception really have harmed the image...

[michaeljb]

Though Tunnels don't quite strike me as something particularly royal.

Just tell yourself your Tunnels are basically Dwarrowdelf, that'll impress the competing monarchs.

[werothegreat]

Every kid knows what a witch is - a lot of them dress up as one (or at least used to) on Halloween.  And what's wrong with Curse?  Does your friend help run the No-Cussing Club or something?  At any rate, I never really saw Dominion as intended to be a kid-friendly game. 

[werothegreat]

Harem doesn't belong in a "family card game" ... and Torturer does.  The logic escapes me, but maybe there is an explanation out there.  Or did he remake it as "Extremely Persuasive Person" ?

Well, he did make Witch->Vagabond and Curse->Plague, but I didn't want to go that far. I think a kid knows what a torturer is, even if the idea of using it isn't the best. I would rather not explain what a harem is to a child, and the image isn't helpful either in my opinion. Beyond that, to each his own.

"Daddy, what's a harem?"

"A place where kings used to keep their women."

If you want to maintain your kid's innocence, there are always workarounds.

[cayvie]

Every kid knows what a witch is - a lot of them dress up as one (or at least used to) on Halloween.  And what's wrong with Curse?  Does your friend help run the No-Cussing Club or something?  At any rate, I never really saw Dominion as intended to be a kid-friendly game.

I definitely have known some people, mostly Christian fundamentalists, who believe (and are told in church) that real witches, who have sold their souls to Satan, exist, and that they will hex you.

I am not overstating this.

[pokeman7452]

I did not create this thread with the intention of having others judge me or my friend. Please stay on topic of the card.

[theory]

There are unreasonable accommodations, and then there are reasonable accommodations.  I think not having to explain to a child what a "Harem" is, or try to explain why it generates revenue, is one of the more reasonable accommodations.

[blueblimp]

There are unreasonable accommodations, and then there are reasonable accommodations.  I think not having to explain to a child what a "Harem" is, or try to explain why it generates revenue, is one of the more reasonable accommodations.

I thought so too, although reading the Wikipedia article, it seems like describing it as "a place where women live" is an accurate explanation, historically. So I don't see the problem here anymore.

[Minotaur]

Harem doesn't belong in a "family card game" ... and Torturer does.  The logic escapes me, but maybe there is an explanation out there.  Or did he remake it as "Extremely Persuasive Person" ?

It's because torture is ok with fundamentalists because God is a torturer and so are the nice Americans working in Guantanamo Bay.

Also, at some point, America decided that gratuitous violence is less bad than depictions of sex.

(I personally don't think I'd be ok with owning a Harem in real life, but I give it a pass for Dominion. If I had to explain it to a kid, I'd just say that in some cultures, really rich and powerful guys have a lot of wives. Mormons do it, and they're also Christians, or close enough.)

[Warfreak2]

I am an adult, but I don't particularly like being reminded of the whole "women as property" thing while playing an otherwise enjoyably eccentric card game. The card art and the fact that it produces income make it pretty clear we're not just talking about "a place where women live".

The card doesn't particularly upset me, but I find it distasteful in a way that Torturer isn't.

[Kirian]

Huh, I never thought I'd see a thread about a variant card turn into an RPS thread so rapidly.

(Edge case: a card named after a specific religious sect or political institution, with the intent of disparaging it, but really, who would do that?)

[GendoIkari]

Well, it retains the flavour.  Victory point cards tend to be places (Nobles notwithstanding).  A harem may refer to a group of wives/concubines but it can also refer to a part of a residence reserved for that group.  An abbey is also a place that may be filled with women, though in this case they are nuns.

Abbey might have monks instead.  I think I would have gone with "Convent".

It only retains half the flavor though. Victory cards are places, but treasure cards are things that produce money. A harem does, an Abbey Church does not.

[soulnet]

Well, he did make Witch->Vagabond and Curse->Plague, but I didn't want to go that far. I think a kid knows what a torturer is, even if the idea of using it isn't the best. I would rather not explain what a harem is to a child, and the image isn't helpful either in my opinion. Beyond that, to each his own.

A Vagabond is an Attack that gives you the Plague? Tell me if this is just me being non-native English speaker, but that strikes me as highly discriminative and borderline fascist.