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[Kirian]

I really wouldnt be surprised if it was a pay per expansion type thing though with how some of the beta menus are set up.

Huh.  That would be terrible.

[WanderingWinder]

I don't think speculation over the pricing schemes is going to do much good when we still have.... basically zero information on the pricing schemes.

[LastFootnote]

I really wouldnt be surprised if it was a pay per expansion type thing though with how some of the beta menus are set up.

Huh.  That would be terrible.

What? Why would that be terrible? Call me old-fashioned, but I'd much rather pay once for each set rather than pay a monthly fee (which as far as I can see is really the only other reasonable option for them).

[Donald X.]

First part I was simply confirming what you said (or what I thought you said) above, that one person will own/host the game and they can invite other people to play with them even if they don't also 'own' the game much like you could IRL with paper dominion.

Yes.

As for the second part, I was trying to work out how the above would work with an online tournament system.  I played a lot of MTGO and I am familiar with the 8-man pickup drafts.  All 8 people have to supply 3 boosters and then they draft.  How would this work with Dominion and all the optional expansions?  Could one person (who owned expansions, X, Y and Z) start a tournament and then 7 other people could join no matter what they owned?  Or would the other 7 players also have to own expansions X, Y and Z?  What if 8 players owned all the expansions between them, but no one player owned them all, could they play a tournament with all cards?  Could people freeload off others by never buying anything of the game, but just joining open tournaments hosted by people that do?

I don't know how the tournaments will work. Everyone will have the base set, so you could run a base-set-only tournament with any set of people without any issues to resolve. Larger tournaments that people cannot initiate themselves could work various ways - I don't know if there will ever be a "try out Seaside" tournament but there's no reason you couldn't have one. Anyway I would like to see small tournaments but I don't know how they will work.

[Donald X.]

So, for QuickPlay purposes, is one player randomly determined as the host, and the cards in the game are taken from the pool of cards he/she owns?

I don't know how QuickPlay will work, but a good guess would be, "some sensible way." What you suggest doesn't sound ideal, so probably not that.

[Donald X.]

I believe people have said that all the cards will be available once you buy the online version. So I would say don't worry about that. He's just saying one person "hosts" the game, just like whoever invites another player on iso "hosts" a game.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case someone in the beta feel free to correct me.

One person will own the cards and the other person will not have to. That has been the plan and I do not imagine it will change. I don't think people in the beta have any extra information there.

The expansions will be sold separately, but hey you can buy them all at once if you want. The main set will be free. There will probably be a couple ways to get the promos, one of which will be beating campaigns.

You can't please everyone, but I do not imagine too many people will be unhappy with the pricing scheme.

[Captain_Frisk]

You can't please everyone, but I do not imagine too many people will be unhappy with the pricing scheme.

I'm not sure - but I don't think this is how things on the internet work.  It could be free - fully implement isotropic as a secret interface, be casual friendly, walk your blue dog, feed your pink elephant, and submit your TPS reports on time - and people would still be unhappy that it didn't come with a free cat.

[jonts26]

You can't please everyone, but I do not imagine too many people will be unhappy with the pricing scheme.

I'm not sure - but I don't think this is how things on the internet work.  It could be free - fully implement isotropic as a secret interface, be casual friendly, walk your blue dog, feed your pink elephant, and submit your TPS reports on time - and people would still be unhappy that it didn't come with a free cat.

And other people will be upset if it did include a free cat. I'm allergic!

[Stringer Bell]

I believe people have said that all the cards will be available once you buy the online version. So I would say don't worry about that. He's just saying one person "hosts" the game, just like whoever invites another player on iso "hosts" a game.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case someone in the beta feel free to correct me.

One person will own the cards and the other person will not have to. That has been the plan and I do not imagine it will change. I don't think people in the beta have any extra information there.

The expansions will be sold separately, but hey you can buy them all at once if you want. The main set will be free. There will probably be a couple ways to get the promos, one of which will be beating campaigns.

You can't please everyone, but I do not imagine too many people will be unhappy with the pricing scheme.

If there is a lobby, like there is on Isotropic, will there be an indicator next to each player's name that tells us which expansions they have? As in, if I were to buy none of the expansions (very unlikely, especially if they're reasonably priced), would I be able to see which expansions my opponent has, so that I can pick certain opponents over others based on that info?

[Axxle]

I really wouldnt be surprised if it was a pay per expansion type thing though with how some of the beta menus are set up.

Huh.  That would be terrible.

What? Why would that be terrible? Call me old-fashioned, but I'd much rather pay once for each set rather than pay a monthly fee (which as far as I can see is really the only other reasonable option for them).

It should be free to play but we have the option to buy hats for our kingdom cards.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Would definitely pay for hats. Jester just wouldn't work without a hat.

[Insomniac]

I really wouldnt be surprised if it was a pay per expansion type thing though with how some of the beta menus are set up.

Huh.  That would be terrible.

What? Why would that be terrible? Call me old-fashioned, but I'd much rather pay once for each set rather than pay a monthly fee (which as far as I can see is really the only other reasonable option for them).

It should be free to play but we have the option to buy hats for our kingdom cards.

I'll give you this Jester hat for your Jester kingdom card set?

[Donald X.]

If there is a lobby, like there is on Isotropic, will there be an indicator next to each player's name that tells us which expansions they have? As in, if I were to buy none of the expansions (very unlikely, especially if they're reasonably priced), would I be able to see which expansions my opponent has, so that I can pick certain opponents over others based on that info?

I don't know how it will work. Some good way?

[engineer]

Wait, I'm lost.  I have Base and Hinterlands and do not yet have Prosperity.  If I buy Prosperity now, will I have to buy it again to play online Dominion?  Or is it a dual investment?

If it's the first I feel discouraged from buying the physical cards in favor of picking one medium.

That would be horrible for me...I own all the expansions (except the promos) and I really do not want to have to buy them again.

I second this sentiment.  I've spent over $200 on Dominion, and I own all the expansions except the promos.  If I have to pay again to buy the same thing online, I probably just won't play online any more, which would be a huge bummer for me.  I just can't justify this kind of expenditure for a single game.  (I do not play MTG or other CCG's for similar financial reasons.)  It's especially galling to me since I'd just be buying a copy of something I already own in another format. 

Honestly, I don't see a way around this, since I don't see any sort of serial number on the box.  I suppose if they did want to accommodate folks like me, they could have us snap a photograph of each expansion with all the cards laid out, but that's a lot of work for them, and people could still cheat if they were really dishonest.  They could start adding serial numbers now, but that still screws people (like me) who already bought the game.

Donald, if you are still reading this, are you able to confirm or deny that players who own an expansion IRL will have free access to it online? 

[Donald X.]

Donald, if you are still reading this, are you able to confirm or deny that players who own an expansion IRL will have free access to it online?

Like every computer game ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online.

[Kirian]

I second this sentiment.  I've spent over $200 on Dominion, and I own all the expansions except the promos.  If I have to pay again to buy the same thing online, I probably just won't play online any more, which would be a huge bummer for me.

You should assume that the expense will be much less; remember there is no physical material cost like there is for the physical game.  Consider Playdek's Ascension for iOS: $4 for the base game, $2 for the first expansion, another $4 for the next expansion.  And that's before Apple takes their 40% cut, which RGG doesn't have to worry about.  So Playdek and Gary Games are splitting $6 between them for the equivalent of Base+Intrigue+Cornucopia.

 I don't think RGG/Goko will get away with charging more than ~$5 per expansion, and frankly I think that's pushing the limit of what people will likely pay them.

Like every computer game ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online.

Note that Wizards has created a very different model with MTG Online, and I think a lot of people see that and imagine other companies will pick up on it.  But I think it's only reasonable with a CCG/TCG, not so much with a Eurogame.

[sitnaltax]

Donald, if you are still reading this, are you able to confirm or deny that players who own an expansion IRL will have free access to it online?

Like every computer game ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online.

It's not crazy to have thought this--Days of Wonder used to include access codes to their online site with the physical game. Not usual (and difficult to imagine how it would work post hoc), but not unthinkable.

[Donald X.]

Note that Wizards has created a very different model with MTG Online, and I think a lot of people see that and imagine other companies will pick up on it.  But I think it's only reasonable with a CCG/TCG, not so much with a Eurogame.

You mean the model where buying cards online is exactly as expensive as buying physical cards? We have chosen to make our online versions cheaper.

[engineer]

Donald, if you are still reading this, are you able to confirm or deny that players who own an expansion IRL will have free access to it online?

Like every computer game ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online.

Well, I can't argue with that.  I can say that it's a shame.  Lots of things happen that have never been done before.

While I'm not arguing your point, I will say this: I don't think Dominion Online should really be considered a "computer game with a board game version."  I think it's more accurate to call it an emulator.  While your statement is still true (Like every emulator ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online), this is a much narrower statement: while there are lots of video games that get "board game versions" that really aren't the same game (e.g. look at Starcraft vs. Starcraft: The Board Game), the only board/card game emulator I could find that wasn't free was Magic Online.  Admittedly, Magic Online does follow this same rule -- owning cards IRL does not grant ownership of those cards online -- so once again I can't argue with your point.  But there seems to be much more room to establish a new paradigm here!

I guess this boils down to a similar point as that made by people buying books on Amazon.  Lots of people who buy physical books would like to receive digital copies of the same book in the same purchase.  Publishers hate that idea, because then they only get paid once instead of twice for the two different forms of the book. 

I hope that, as time goes on, the march of technology will push publishers towards unification of purchases: either buy the digital thing at a discount, reflecting its negligible incremental production cost, or buy the physical thing and get the digital component as added value.

But, like I said before, even if you and your partners in the new site were willing to consider such an idea, I have no idea how you would pull it off.

[Kirian]

Note that Wizards has created a very different model with MTG Online, and I think a lot of people see that and imagine other companies will pick up on it.  But I think it's only reasonable with a CCG/TCG, not so much with a Eurogame.

You mean the model where buying cards online is exactly as expensive as buying physical cards? We have chosen to make our online versions cheaper.

My apologies; I had thought it was possible to redeem a booster pack code for online cards; I had read that somewhere and the misinformation stuck.

[jonts26]

You should assume that the expense will be much less; remember there is no physical material cost like there is for the physical game. 

Yes, but there are also costs associated with an online game that a physical one doesn't have. Web hosting, servers, etc. aren't super cheap. Granted, those costs should be significantly less than physical production and shipping.

[Donald X.]

But, like I said before, even if you and your partners in the new site were willing to consider such an idea, I have no idea how you would pull it off.

Well Valve is doing a game paid for entirely with hats, right? Who knows what the future holds.

You can play Dominion for free online as long as you find someone else who bought the expansions, and play with them. You can also just play with the main set, that's free. That was what we could manage. I think clearly being able to play Dominion both online and irl has value over only being able to play irl, and people will pay for that value. We aren't trying to bleed them. I mean, compare other forms of entertainment.

I can understand people wanting a digital copy of a book for free, because in the best-case scenario it really was free, it was in digital form when the author and editor handed it off, so there's just bandwidth and hosting to pay for. For Dominion you can want it for free on the grounds that someone happened to put in the effort for free to give it to you (not counting the fact that they started with the physical product). But any online thing we actually made, people were going to put in many hours on, doing it as a job, utterly unlike those digital books.

[engineer]

But any online thing we actually made, people were going to put in many hours on, doing it as a job, utterly unlike those digital books.

Oh, I totally agree with you there.  I'm not the type of guy to begrudge somebody who wants to get paid for his work.  I don't work for free!  And I don't think you're being unfair either.  (I mean, I don't know yet obviously, but from what you've described so far, it sounds like a very fair plan to me.)

I guess that the source of my malaise is that I bought Dominion for the same reason that some people bought albums when Napster was free: because I wanted to support the creators (i.e. you!).  I learned about the game online, and I primarily play online, but I wanted to be 'legit' -- and also try to get my friends into it, because I do prefer playing actual physical board games to playing on the computer.  (I'm one of the five guys out there who actually likes having to shuffle the cards.) I've had some very minor success with with my friends, but that's because the people that I like to hang out with don't like board games, and that's obviously my problem (sadly, my lot in life) and not yours.  Consequently, I rarely get to play games IRL with my shiny new dominion expansions.  Now I find myself in the ironic situation where I would have been better off waiting and buying the whole megillah online instead of IRL. 

But honestly, this isn't your fault, and I don't think you're doing anything wrong.  (And I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that! You seem like the confident type.)  Frankly, the fact that I have the chance to play free online anyway is more than I realistically expected.  I just asked my initial question because, hey, why not ask?

[Thisisnotasmile]

If you're not getting the use you'd like out of your physical Dominion sets, why not sell them off and use the money to pay for your digital Dominion sets? You might even have some beer money spare afterwards.

[Kuildeous]

I guess that the source of my malaise is that I bought Dominion for the same reason that some people bought albums when Napster was free: because I wanted to support the creators (i.e. you!).  I learned about the game online, and I primarily play online, but I wanted to be 'legit' -- and also try to get my friends into it, because I do prefer playing actual physical board games to playing on the computer.  (I'm one of the five guys out there who actually likes having to shuffle the cards.) I've had some very minor success with with my friends, but that's because the people that I like to hang out with don't like board games, and that's obviously my problem (sadly, my lot in life) and not yours.  Consequently, I rarely get to play games IRL with my shiny new dominion expansions.  Now I find myself in the ironic situation where I would have been better off waiting and buying the whole megillah online instead of IRL. 

I agree with TINAS. It's admirable that you helped support the company by buying their product. Now that you can help support the company with the online version, you can sell the physical copies to John Doe.

The net benefit is the same. John pays for a physical game while you pay for a virtual game. Either way, that one physical set put money in RGG's pocket. The difference is that you no longer have access to it in case a real-life game does pop up.

Although, I have a pretty high tolerance for owning physical games that aren't played. My copy of Kingdom Builder + expansion has been played exactly once. MySmallword: Underground also played only once. My Factory Manager has a handful of plays. But, if you don't have the same irrational attachment to pretties that I do, then you would probably do well to sell your sets. I'd offer to buy them, but you can already guess why I won't.