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[RisingJaguar]

I assume the answer to this question is Yes.  Essentially I want to see the (lack of) value the extra copper of IGG provides (EDIT: as well as when this occurs). I want to learn more of the overall power of IGG as well as how to use its gaining benefit better. 

This question can probably be answered by how much would you pay for such a silver.  OR how often (and how much) the extra copper is better overall.  Although please feel free to use your gut feeling or whatever other metric you want to use. 

Remember, this isn't valuing coppers overall.  It is valuing coppers in the context of IGG games.  I would also like to hear the multiplayer's POV because I have no idea how good/bad this card is in multiplayer. 

[werothegreat]

Gaining the Copper works well with Coppersmith, Counting House and Gardens, and can give fuel to Moneylender, Spice Merchant, Stables and Mine.

[clb]

As a fan of the IGG rush, I would have to say that the "gain a copper" aspect is often quite useful. In a typical Duke/Duchy rush, you will often pick up a copper with a spare buy or if you have a vp-only hand. The same is true here - you essentially have a deck full of coppers, vp, and perhaps curses from your opponents. In my experience, there have been numerous occasions where I only have 3$ and an IGG, so the +1 copper puts me over the edge into buying an IGG or Duchy (mostly IRL, but I will look for a log, lest someone say "logs or it didn't happen ).
As to your other question, $5 for a curse-giving silver seems like a good price, but at that price, I would be tempted to say that it would be strictly better than IGG, so maybe it would be at $6 with Harem?

[rinkworks]

Obviously the monetary value of an IGG that you use the Copper-gaining power of is (normally) equivalent to that of Silver, and so it's tempting to say that the Silver version would be superior, since you don't have to pollute your deck with Copper to take advantage of it.

However, what the real IGG does for you that Silver doesn't is provide resilience to your deck through the greening process.  IGG/Duchy works because you can buy tons of green cards without clogging up so much, because the influx of Copper dilutes the green.  With Silver, your deck will falter quicker.

So I'm going to guess that IGG is better only when your target $ amount for greening is $5 or less.  Then again, I suppose if you are pursuing a rush strategy with either, it would be.

[qmech]

Good question.

In my experience, there have been numerous occasions where I only have 3$ and an IGG, so the +1 copper puts me over the edge into buying an IGG or Duchy (mostly IRL, but I will look for a log, lest someone say "logs or it didn't happen ).

We'll believe that.   The question is whether the extra deck size is more helpful than an IGG that's worth a straight $2.

It seems simulations (with a modified simulator) would be a good starting point for investigating that question.  For gut level pricing $7 is much too expensive; at $6 it would probably see some use (as would IGG); and $5 probably isn't too cheap as it's not clearly better than IGG.  Anyone for tinkering with the simulators?

[Robz888]

If the Silver version cost the same thing, it would be better, usually. Not always, but usually.

[Rabid]

My guess it that a $5 version that gives $2 is better in non-mirror games.
But by being better it would create more mirror matches.

[RisingJaguar]

Good question.

In my experience, there have been numerous occasions where I only have 3$ and an IGG, so the +1 copper puts me over the edge into buying an IGG or Duchy (mostly IRL, but I will look for a log, lest someone say "logs or it didn't happen ).

We'll believe that.   The question is whether the extra deck size is more helpful than an IGG that's worth a straight $2.

It seems simulations (with a modified simulator) would be a good starting point for investigating that question.  For gut level pricing $7 is much too expensive; at $6 it would probably see some use (as would IGG); and $5 probably isn't too cheap as it's not clearly better than IGG.  Anyone for tinkering with the simulators?

Right that's exactly what I'm looking for, the relative difference.  I play horribly with this card so I feel my insight here isn't great and would like to hear other people's thoughts.

[RisingJaguar]

Also, IGG multiplayer mirrors would probably prefer the current version right? Except I don't know if IGG multiplayer should go to mirrors or its often a mistake, as per isodom semi-finals. 

[mnavratil]

I think the thing is, if IGG were pure $2 you wouldn't see the duchy rush be as effective. Part of what makes the duchy rush so good is the ability to get to $5 very easily with all the coppers, but at the same time, having all these coppers makes it hard to get to the $8 mark to grab a province. This is why a lot of IGG mirrors can be decided by whoever gets that lucky $8 hand. I think with the $2 IGG the likelihood of provinces goes up dramatically, and "waiting out" the rush to grab provinces becomes a much more viable play. Probably would be a lot closer to playing a "regular" cursing game with like mountebank or witches. Maybe this wouldn't have as dramatic effect as I am picturing though?

[cherdano]

Gaining the Copper works well with Coppersmith, Counting House and Gardens, and can give fuel to Moneylender, Spice Merchant, Stables and Mine.

That's one main difference.
On the other hand, gaining the copper slows the cycling. With a "silver-giving-curse" it might be easier to pivot towards a province game, or a hunch of an engine.

[blueblimp]

I believe it's optimal in an plain IGG rush to never take the copper unless you need it to make your buy. The reason is that you win IGG mirrors by snagging provinces, and flooding yourself with coppers does not help with that. Presumably, if you could get $2 without gaining a copper, then that would be better.

[AdamH]

A curse-giving silver would not have the same interaction with Bank that IGG does...

[popsofctown]

I think a Silver version would go full Province strategy, or pick up a couple more Provinces than IGG and rush Duchies. 

[Rhombus]

IGG + Bank can be interesting, I find (and of course, lost with CursedSilver).

[clb]

IGG + Bank can be interesting, I find (and of course, lost with CursedSilver).

Cursed Silver (or gold) has a nice ring to it. Is there a fan card out there that is a cross between cache and IGG? Maybe a $4-cost that is worth $3, but you gain a curse every time you buy/gain one?

[rinkworks]

Cursed Silver (or gold) has a nice ring to it. Is there a fan card out there that is a cross between cache and IGG? Maybe a $4-cost that is worth $3, but you gain a curse every time you buy/gain one?

This exact thing is one of the most commonly suggested fan cards, in fact.  At least it seemed to be on BGG.  The problem is that it's crazy overpowered when the Curses are gone.  Cache is almost certainly the best incarnation of that idea, as the Coppers rarely run out.

[Razzishi]

Cursed Silver (or gold) has a nice ring to it. Is there a fan card out there that is a cross between cache and IGG? Maybe a $4-cost that is worth $3, but you gain a curse every time you buy/gain one?

This exact thing is one of the most commonly suggested fan cards, in fact.  At least it seemed to be on BGG.  The problem is that it's crazy overpowered when the Curses are gone.  Cache is almost certainly the best incarnation of that idea, as the Coppers rarely run out.

Why would a card's overpoweredness when the Curses run out be a problem if the card's priced appropriately?  Curses can't just magically empty; something has to happen to make them go away.  I'm partly looking at this from the perspective of "Only early game balance matters; once the game goes 8 turns nearly anything's fair", as that seems to be the design philosophy these days in Magic.

[WanderingWinder]

Cursed Silver (or gold) has a nice ring to it. Is there a fan card out there that is a cross between cache and IGG? Maybe a $4-cost that is worth $3, but you gain a curse every time you buy/gain one?

This exact thing is one of the most commonly suggested fan cards, in fact.  At least it seemed to be on BGG.  The problem is that it's crazy overpowered when the Curses are gone.  Cache is almost certainly the best incarnation of that idea, as the Coppers rarely run out.

Why would a card's overpoweredness when the Curses run out be a problem if the card's priced appropriately?  Curses can't just magically empty; something has to happen to make them go away.  I'm partly looking at this from the perspective of "Only early game balance matters; once the game goes 8 turns nearly anything's fair", as that seems to be the design philosophy these days in Magic.

The point is that it becomes difficult to impossible to cost it appropriately. There are reasons for curses to run out besides this card.
I'm not actually sure whether that's true or not, but that's the idea. And I trust rinkworks decently well here. Not as much as say, Donald X. Vaccarino, but pretty well