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[fp]

In a game the other day, I thought I was slick by playing both Watchtower and Masquerade. However, when I was passed a card, the Watchtower option never came up. Is this correct?

[Axe Knight]

I believe so.  You're not gaining a card from the supply, someone's passing it to you.

[guided]

It's possible to gain a card from elsewhere than the supply (Black Market... nothing else that I can think of at the moment) so that Watchtower would apply, but when you are passed a card from Masquerade that's not a "gain".

[fp]

On the other hand when you buy a card, Watchtower triggers, but that is not a "gain" either.

[WanderingWinder]

Actually, generally the first thing you do after buying a card is to then gain it.

Edit: See this thread.

[Donald X.]

In a game the other day, I thought I was slick by playing both Watchtower and Masquerade. However, when I was passed a card, the Watchtower option never came up. Is this correct?

Intrigue rulebook:

“Pass” – If a player passes a card to another player, that card is placed face down on the table between the players.  The receiving player then puts the card in his hand. A passed card is not revealed to the other players.  A passed card is not considered to be trashed or discarded by the player passing it and it is not considered to be gained by the player receiving it.

[DsnowMan]

All these things are covered in the rulebooks.

When you buy a card, you gain it (placing it in your discard pile).

As the boss pointed out, pass is carefully defined in the rules.

Everyone should go out and buy every set so you have all the rules.

Then read them on the potty.

[KMueller]

Then read them on the potty.

For me it was the hammock.

[fp]

Intrigue rulebook:

“Pass” – If a player passes a card to another player, that card is placed face down on the table between the players.  The receiving player then puts the card in his hand. A passed card is not revealed to the other players.  A passed card is not considered to be trashed or discarded by the player passing it and it is not considered to be gained by the player receiving it.

[/quote]

I guess it is in the rules, but I must say it seems slightly unintuitive especially since Masquerade is the only card that passes. Hence it is the only card that can let you gain a card (in the literal sense) without actually letting you "gain" it.

I must also ask- why was that phrase put into the rules if there was no reason to make that distinction at that time?

[Donald X.]

I guess it is in the rules, but I must say it seems slightly unintuitive especially since Masquerade is the only card that passes. Hence it is the only card that can let you gain a card (in the literal sense) without actually letting you "gain" it.

I must also ask- why was that phrase put into the rules if there was no reason to make that distinction at that time?

Originally Masquerade counted as both gaining and trashing. Valerie didn't like how it was gaining without gaining and trashing without trashing. To me gaining meant "now it's yours" and trashing meant "now it isn't," but to Valerie gaining meant "take it and put it into your discard pile" and trashing meant "move it to the trash." She could see it being that you gained the card but didn't trash it, but I felt it should be both or neither. So it's neither.

It's in the rules because I knew this day would come! There were cards that required this to be specified, and they existed prior to Intrigue being published.

[Zaphod]

Ambassador, Swindler, and several other cards use the term "gain".  Black Market uses the term "buy", and as others have mentioned, after you buy a card, you gain it.  Watchtower can therefore be applied to a card given by any of these.  Masquerade's description simply says the card is passed; there's no reference to it being "gained".  It may seem arbitrary, but there is a logic behind it.

One obvious difference between Masquerade and the other cards is that you don't take a card from any stack with Masquerade, it comes from another player's hand.  Contrast this with Ambassador, where the card is returned from the player's hand to the supply, and other players then gain the card from the supply. 

[WanderingWinder]

"cards"? Is this foreshadowing??

[guided]

It's already required for multiple cards. Given Black Market, it matters for Talisman and Royal Seal too. There may be other examples I'm not recalling at the moment.

[michaeljb]

It's possible to gain a card from elsewhere than the supply (Black Market... nothing else that I can think of at the moment) so that Watchtower would apply, but when you are passed a card from Masquerade that's not a "gain".

Prizes

PS I believe Thief technically qualifies as well.

[guided]

It's possible to gain a card from elsewhere than the supply (Black Market... nothing else that I can think of at the moment) so that Watchtower would apply, but when you are passed a card from Masquerade that's not a "gain".

Prizes

PS I believe Thief technically qualifies as well.

Yep, both of these are gains from outside the Supply. Though for the longest time I was playing Thief wrong and gaining a separate copy from the Supply....

[Anon79]

Originally Masquerade counted as both gaining and trashing. Valerie didn't like how it was gaining without gaining and trashing without trashing. To me gaining meant "now it's yours" and trashing meant "now it isn't," but to Valerie gaining meant "take it and put it into your discard pile" and trashing meant "move it to the trash." She could see it being that you gained the card but didn't trash it, but I felt it should be both or neither. So it's neither.

Interesting how possessed masquerades would work otherwise.

[guided]

Originally Masquerade counted as both gaining and trashing. Valerie didn't like how it was gaining without gaining and trashing without trashing. To me gaining meant "now it's yours" and trashing meant "now it isn't," but to Valerie gaining meant "take it and put it into your discard pile" and trashing meant "move it to the trash." She could see it being that you gained the card but didn't trash it, but I felt it should be both or neither. So it's neither.

Interesting how possessed masquerades would work otherwise.

You'd need the "lose track" rule, which hasn't been published or even finalized yet. But I think I can make a pretty good guess. My sense is that Masquerade would trash the card passed from the Possessed hand, then Possession would set it aside, then Masquerade would try to have the player on the left gain the card but fail since it expects the card to be in the trash. So the Possessee would get the card back at the end of the turn. The Possessor would still have to trash-pass a card, but as soon as the Possessee gained the card from the trash, the Possessor would gain the card instead.

So in a 2p game, if we call the Possessor "P" and the Possessee "V": P takes a card from the hand and puts it in their own discard pile. V takes a card from the hand and sets it aside, getting it back in the discard during cleanup.

In a 3p or more game, if we call the person on the Possessee's left "L" and the person on the Possessor's right "R": P puts a card from their hand into their discard. V sets aside a card from their hand and gets it back in the discard during cleanup. L gets nothing but must pass a card to the left. R must pass a card to P. The cards passed from L and R do go into the hand of the person receiving the card, as normal.



So I think the "passing" mechanic was absolutely the right choice, instead of trash&gain! Passing is much less complicated with Possession.