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Author Topic: The term "multiplayer"  (Read 8786 times)

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blueblimp

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The term "multiplayer"
« on: June 09, 2012, 02:20:25 pm »
+3

Does this bug anyone else? 2-player is already multiplayer, since there are 2 players and not just 1. If we're talking about having more than 2 players, wouldn't a term like "many-player" be more appropriate?

Also, arguably it's not useful to lump together 3- and 4-player (not to mention 5- and 6-player), since they are nearly as strategically different from each other as they are from 2-player.
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toaster

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 02:26:00 pm »
+4

Nope, doesn't bother me.  Does it bother you that you play at a recital and recite at a play, or drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?  ;)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 02:28:44 pm »
0

Yeah, it bothers me. Somehow someone came up with this terminology (maybe they meant "multi-opponent"?), and now that enough people use it, we're kind of stuck with it :(. We'll get over it.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 02:29:56 pm »
+2

Why is it that when you send something by land it's a shipment, but when you send it by ship it's called cargo?
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DG

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 02:41:03 pm »
+3

Multi as a prefix usually indicates many.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 02:43:11 pm »
+1

Why is it that when you send something by land it's a shipment, but when you send it by ship it's called cargo?
For the same reason that Congress is the opposite of progress - pro is the opposite of con.
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blueblimp

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 02:50:47 pm »
0

Nope, doesn't bother me.  Does it bother you that you play at a recital and recite at a play, or drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?  ;)

But those are established English usage. The way "multiplayer" is used on this board means something completely different than what multiplayer means in the context of any other game on earth, and I'm not even convinced this meaning of multiplayer would be understood by people talking about dominion outside of these forums.

The usual meaning of "multiplayer" is also pretty useful in the context of Dominion, because playing with other people on isotropic is multiplayer, while playing solitaire on isotropic or playing against an AI on your phone is singleplayer. So if I say "I like to play multiplayer Dominion but not singleplayer Dominion", then what this normally means is that I enjoy playing Dominion with other people, but what it means on this board is that I enjoy playing Dominion in 3/4/5/6-player.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 02:54:11 pm by blueblimp »
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Donald X.

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2012, 02:54:36 pm »
+4

But those are established English usage. The way "multiplayer" is used on this board means something completely different than what multiplayer means in the context of any other game on earth, and I'm not even convinced this meaning of multiplayer would be understood by people talking about dominion outside of these forums.
People routinely refer to "multiplayer Magic" when they mean "Magic with three or more players."

Edit: Example: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/197
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blueblimp

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2012, 02:57:49 pm »
0

But those are established English usage. The way "multiplayer" is used on this board means something completely different than what multiplayer means in the context of any other game on earth, and I'm not even convinced this meaning of multiplayer would be understood by people talking about dominion outside of these forums.
People routinely refer to "multiplayer Magic" when they mean "Magic with three or more players."

Edit: Example: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/197

Thanks, then the problem is just that it means something different for video games.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2012, 02:59:46 pm »
0

Nope, doesn't bother me.  Does it bother you that you play at a recital and recite at a play, or drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?  ;)

But those are established English usage. The way "multiplayer" is used on this board means something completely different than what multiplayer means in the context of any other game on earth, and I'm not even convinced this meaning of multiplayer would be understood by people talking about dominion outside of these forums.

The usual meaning of "multiplayer" is also pretty useful in the context of Dominion, because playing with other people on isotropic is multiplayer, while playing solitaire on isotropic or playing against an AI on your phone is singleplayer. So if I say "I like to play multiplayer Dominion but not singleplayer Dominion", then what this normally means is that I enjoy playing Dominion with other people, but what it means on this board is that I enjoy playing Dominion in 3/4/5/6-player.
Single player dominion is not dominion ;)
The problem I have with many-player, apart from that nobody uses it, is that it's also very vague. How many is many? Like, I would think 5+ with that description.

Tables

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2012, 03:18:34 pm »
0

Also, arguably it's not useful to lump together 3- and 4-player (not to mention 5- and 6-player), since they are nearly as strategically different from each other as they are from 2-player.

I know this is a slight tangent, but honestly I think 3 player is more similar to 2 player than it is to 4 player, and 4-6 player are all somewhat similar (certainly, I think the difference from 4 to 6 is not more than the difference from 3 to 4). It could be quite interesting to have an article on multiplayer play, even if it only looked at the basics of the changes and their implications

Edit: I now see Geronimoo actually made such an article yesterday

« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 03:24:25 pm by Tables »
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Kirian

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2012, 04:47:43 pm »
0

drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?  ;)

I actually can answer this one.  Originally, a "parkway" was a road that led to (or through) a park.  It was used for both foot and carriage traffic, and obviously connected with other roads at both ends.  Meanwhile, a "driveway" was the (shorter) road on which you drove your carriage (and horses) into the carriage house; this road was usually on your property.

Since they were named, we stopped using horses, the parks disappeared and the roads were just for driving, and people started using their garages for storage instead of parking their cars--or not having garages at all.

And that's about as tangential as I can possibly get.
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Kahryl

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2012, 05:19:39 pm »
0

It makes sense for "multiplayer" to mean "more than the minimum number". This is a more useful definition than "more than one person" if the game/genre isn't designed for one person anyway.
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blueblimp

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2012, 06:30:49 pm »
0

It makes sense for "multiplayer" to mean "more than the minimum number". This is a more useful definition than "more than one person" if the game/genre isn't designed for one person anyway.

Singleplayer can also refer to playing against an AI.
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toaster

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2012, 08:41:45 pm »
+1

Also, even in a video gaming context, "multiplayer" these days almost always refers to several people.  If a new shooter comes out, if one asks "will it offer multiplayer mode?", 9 times out of 10 they mean online play involving several people, not split-screen play with two people.  Although 2 player modes still get lumped in with multiplayer at times, often others terms will be used...for example I've never heard of Portal 2 being described as having a multiplayer support, instead it's almost always referred to as a "co-op mode" or "2 player co-op". 
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Razzishi

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2012, 06:30:28 pm »
+1

The term is directly borrowed from Magic lingo, where most competitive players are interested in 2-player strategy but most casual players play "multiplayer" and are less interested in duels.
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Kuildeous

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 08:15:03 am »
0

The term is directly borrowed from Magic lingo, where most competitive players are interested in 2-player strategy but most casual players play "multiplayer" and are less interested in duels.

Ah yes, I remember those days. I helped perpetuate the term "multi-player" to mean "more than two people." Sorry.

It sated our need to involve more than two people until Jihad and On the Edge came out.

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Octo

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 08:55:33 am »
0

Outside of video games, single-player games are generally referred to as 'solitaire' games, and the "more-than-one-player" game is otherwise implicit. I suspect it's only since video games that the norm gets reversed (i.e. solitaire being implicit).

I'm fine with multi-player meaning 3 upwards. I'd feel weird calling chess a multiplayer game. 2 doesn't really strike me as a "multitude" of players if you see what I mean.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 08:57:58 am by Octo »
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Piemaster

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2012, 04:48:58 pm »
0

Looking at all the different examples, it seems that multiplayer usually means "more than the minimum number of players".  So in Magic or Dominion where the minimum number of players is 2, multiplayer means 3+.  But in  computer game where solo play is normal, multiplayer means 2+.

Maybe.
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Ozle

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2012, 04:51:35 pm »
0

You can justify it to yourself by telling yourself Multi-player stands for Multiple Opponent Players?
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Kuildeous

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 09:01:30 am »
0

Looking at all the different examples, it seems that multiplayer usually means "more than the minimum number of players".  So in Magic or Dominion where the minimum number of players is 2, multiplayer means 3+.  But in  computer game where solo play is normal, multiplayer means 2+.

Maybe.

Which would result in some weird results. For example, in Nanuk, 5 players would not be multiplayer, but 6-8 would.

Granted, games that have a minimum number of players that high are pretty rare, but there are a good number of games that require at least 3 players.

I'd chalk it up to a language quirk. We screwed it up, and now multiplayer means "more than two" for board/card games.

I blame pinball. When have you seen a multiball that only had two balls?
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Octo

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 08:11:21 am »
+1

I dunno,  multi really represents something more than two - 2 really isn't "many", which is what multi means. So multi-ball pinball works fine :)

2-player co-op in a video game described as "multi-player co-op" would not be way out of line, but would be a bit weird. The norm would be to say "2-player co-op". I think perhaps that implicit in the use of multi is that the number of players can vary, as multi is an unspecified amount.

A game which can have 2 - 5 players is a multiplayer game. A game that must have 4 players would properly be described as a "4 player game" as there is no option to that. To call it multiplayer (either in video game or board game) would imply to me that I can play with 4 players. Bridge would be weird to be described as "multiplayer", its a 4 player game.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 08:15:23 am by Octo »
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gman314

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 04:03:40 pm »
0

In Game Theory usage, multi-player generally means "The more complicated case". So, two-player games are relatively easy to figure out because of the lack of any cooperation. As soon as you add a third player, collusion is possible and things get more complicated. This is obvious in games such as Risk or Diplomacy where alliances are a possibility, but it can also come about in Dominion. For instance, on a board without +actions, if player 1 and 2 both play Torturers, player 3 got hit by two Torturers which wouldn't be possible in a 2-player game on the same board. Also, Council Room can compound more easily.

Basically, in two-player games, your actions are directly influenced by your opponents' actions, but with more players, your actions are influenced not only by what each player did but on the interactions between the actions they took.

Also, in two-player, the only order that can change is who went first, which usually doesn't have a very big impact on Dominion. But in a three-player game, there are more possible orders and where you are relative to a player can make a big difference. In Dominion, some of the cards which affect this are Possession, Masquerade, Tribute, Envoy and Contraband. If you have a kingdom with Masquerade, Contraband and Envoy you want the player who makes some decisions for you to be inexperienced with the card. For example, the player who discards the possession you picked up with Envoy without realizing that you don't have another action. With Tribute and Possession, you want the player whose deck you're using to not know how to counter the card you're using. For example, the player who opens Governor-Chapel with Possession on the board. Or the player who loads up on Harem and Nobles with Tribute on the board.
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rinkworks

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 04:05:54 pm »
0

I dunno,  multi really represents something more than two - 2 really isn't "many", which is what multi means.

Dictionary.com:

multi-
a combining form meaning “many,” “much,” “multiple,” “many times,” “more than one,” “more than two,” “composed of many like parts,” “in many respects,” used in the formation of compound words: multiply; multivitamin.


The entry goes on to give examples of different usages:  In "multiarticular," the prefix means "many"; in "multiparous," it means "more than one"; in "multipolar," it means "more than two."

So I wouldn't say that "multi" strictly means "more than two," just that it can mean that.  Personally, I have never actually heard of any "more than two" use except in Dominion.   I'm sure other games use it too, but "multi-" has always meant "multiple" to me, which just means "more than one."

In Dominion, using "multiplayer" for 3+ is convenient, just because there are gameplay differences between 2 and 3+, and it would be nice to have a word to distinguish them.  But even so, it's always struck me as wrong on a literal level.   Even though I guess it's not.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 04:08:13 pm by rinkworks »
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cayvie

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Re: The term "multiplayer"
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2012, 03:11:11 am »
+1

It should go

1: Solitaire
2: Double Player
3: Multi Player
4: Mega Player
5: Ultra Player
6+: M-M-M-Monster Player
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