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Author Topic: Masquerade countered effectively  (Read 3449 times)

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tko

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Masquerade countered effectively
« on: July 13, 2011, 04:36:38 pm »
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This game countered my opening Masquerade with a draw engine into Baron (to make use of the extra Estates) or Remodel.  I struggled to catch up and failed miserably.  I was wasting time with silly cards like Gold when Fishing Village + Smithy was faster.  My opponent's play reminded me of when I played BSW's premade set (Village Square) where I would open with Remodel and laugh off opponents buying Gold.
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ARTjoMS

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 06:34:41 pm »
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You shouldn't have bough masquerade as you see that opponent buys remodel, because in this kingdom main role plays cards costing 3-4. While you trash your estate with masquerade he remodels it to a useful card.

Masquerade improves your chances of getting 5 or 6 coins early on, but in this kingdom it is not really relevant.

I find his remodel opening also very risky. If he doesn't draw any estates with his remodel, he will be screwed. Also, if he draws Remodel, 2 Estates, 2 coppers he will fall behind (unless fishing village is played in previous turn, like it happened now), because he can't buy anything with 2 coins. And even if you have 3 coppers estate and remodel, you will feel somewhat awkward if opponent plays a masquerade.

By buying masquerade you somewhat increase his chances to get remodel with estate together, because you will pass him estate right? 

Anyway, thanks for sharing this game.
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Superdad

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 10:59:38 am »
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Not taking masquerade because the opponent picks up remodel is a poor conclusion.

I give him estate. He remodels the estate into a $4. What was the cost of him doing so? Effectively playing with a 3-card hand that turn. Yes, I will allow him to do that as often as he wishes. Your masquerade is still getting a TON of value.

Then lets not even discuss him trying to remodel copper into something better.

The power of remodel isn't remodelling $0's and $2's into $2's and $4's. It's remodeling $6's into $8's in a province game. If you can keep him stuck on the $0/$2 plan, then you are going to win that game, without a doubt. In no way whatsoever is remodel a counter to masquerade.


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ackack

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 11:28:17 am »
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This game countered my opening Masquerade with a draw engine into Baron (to make use of the extra Estates) or Remodel.  I struggled to catch up and failed miserably.  I was wasting time with silly cards like Gold . . .

Glancing at the game, it seems to me a bigger issue is that you're buying Fishing Villages and Talismans early when there's not some setup you're obviously gunning for. Masquerade fueled Big Money is probably pretty competitive with your opponent in this scenario. If you are interested in Fishing Village/Smithy specifically, then Remodel might indeed be a better starting choice. The reason is that if you're spending a bunch of early turns wanting to buy 3s and 4s, Masquerade will probably overdraw coin for those purchases. Remodel has a decent chance of giving you an early turn where you can pick up 2 engine cards while also trashing, and thus is probably a good accelerant most of the time.

I think Masq/Silver, a Salvager purchase with an early 4, and then straight money is probably how I go here.
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DG

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 11:33:20 am »
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Quote
The power of remodel isn't remodelling $0's and $2's into $2's and $4's. It's remodeling $6's into $8's in a province game.
It depends what the 4's and 2's are. http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/03/guest-article-sample-game-planning/.
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livious

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 12:08:18 pm »
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Nobody wants Masq / Potion?
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ackack

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 12:51:18 pm »
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Nobody wants Masq / Potion?

Honestly I'd overlooked Familiar, but Masq takes some of the teeth out of it anyway and it might be a bit slow with what else is out there.
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Auroch

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 02:55:19 pm »
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While I'm a sucker for Kingdom Treasure cards, I would have started Masq-Loan, going into Venture-Loan.

This gets even better against Remodel, because you're happy to keep the Estates and pass off and trash Copper after you have at least 4 combined Loans-Ventures.
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tko

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 03:02:23 pm »
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While I'm a sucker for Kingdom Treasure cards, I would have started Masq-Loan, going into Venture-Loan.

This gets even better against Remodel, because you're happy to keep the Estates and pass off and trash Copper after you have at least 4 combined Loans-Ventures.
I'm confused regarding how "at least 4 combined Loans-Ventures" works... can you clarify?  Does it nearly guarantee 8 coin to buy Provinces each turn you draw a Venture?
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Auroch

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Re: Masquerade countered effectively
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 02:42:37 pm »
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At least 4 is a rough threshold of how many you need to guarantee you can still buy the rest of the Ventures, so you can get the Big Chain of Insanity happening.
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