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Author Topic: Merchant Ship  (Read 32244 times)

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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Merchant Ship
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2012, 11:19:52 pm »
+1

Quote from: Justice Potter Stewart
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["engine deck"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.

Concurring opinion, Merchant Ship v. f.DS
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Merchant Ship
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2012, 11:22:44 pm »
0

Quote from: Justice Potter Stewart
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["engine deck"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.

Concurring opinion, Merchant Ship v. f.DS
You think engines are obscene? And I thought I was a BM adherent... (although, I actually don't think this so much anymore)

Empathy

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Re: Merchant Ship
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2012, 11:24:46 pm »
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On the engine vs BM debate.

Another way of classifying strategies is by their objective in terms of turn-structure: what we generally consider an engine tries to replicate a nearly identical playmat every turn (usually obtained either by drawing through most of the deck via tact/smithy/village chain/scrying pool/menagerie/library/alchemist/HP...) while what usually drives BM is a high average hand output (hence all the talks of 'moneness' in BM). Under that classification system, an action heavy deck with no drawing capacity would be 'BM'-ish. You would reason mostly in average money output of your village/merchant ships rather than in terms of deck drawing reliability. Of course the line gets blurred when you draw say, a quarter of your deck.
It's not uncommon for your 5-card hand to be a quarter of your deck well into a big money game... ::)

I don't know that I think the 'identical playmat' thing is a very good indication of things either - chancellor/stash isn't an engine, and there are quite a few engines that have great big mega-turns... only about half the time.
I think an engine is an engine if I am chewing through lots of cards in my deck on a fairly consistent basis, roughly.

Hm, somehow, in my mind, stash/chancellor *is* an 'engine', as every chancellor play leads to a perfectly predictable next turn. It's not a BM, because the average moneyness of the deck is low. Maybe I should rename those groups and just make it a separate classification to engine/BM. My point is, they provide a pretty good metric to compare or contrast strategies differently than just 'action heavy' or 'treasure heavy'. And big mega turn decks are a (third) group of their own.

Basically, the idea is to reason in terms of the probability distribution of the money output per turn. If you try to make it very consistent and near identical from turn to turn (probably a multiple of 8 ), it's an 'engine', if you try to get the highest mean it's a 'BM' and if it is just some very fat-tailed distribution (no money most of the time, lots of money in one turn) then it's a "mega turn" deck. Then there are messier things where the distribution is all over the place.

With this classification, people have a clear objective in mind: if they go for an 'engine', consistency is in order. If they go for 'BM', moneyness is the key metric. A 'mega turn' is defined by the average time it takes to close the game.
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DG

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Re: Merchant Ship
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2012, 07:17:45 am »
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There are both action engines and treasure engines.
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Davio

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Re: Merchant Ship
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2012, 07:50:36 am »
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In my view the key difference between an engine an a regular money based deck is the VP progression.
Money decks tend to have a linear graph while engine decks start off more slow and explode in the end with lots of VPs.

Engine decks also invest a lot of turns trying to control the game and only action cards can control the game, IGG being an exception though.
Engines are always looking for that tipping point where their deck is in good enough shape to sustain them for some time while the money player is choking on his greens.

This is why Ambassador fits well with Engines, it's a master at controlling the game. Win the tennis match, win the game. Chapel likewise.

That being said, a BM deck is not necessarily money + 1 or 2 types of action.
Is Hunting Party - Monument an engine or a BM deck? Probably a bit of both.
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