Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All

Author Topic: Euro 2012  (Read 36031 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2012, 05:10:51 pm »
0

I can't believe us Dutchies still have a chance to go through.

With the round robin there are so many times that the third game doesn't matter.
Now the Germans will undoubtedly start with their substitions and I don't blame them.
If you can save some energy of your players, you might as well do so.

And in first games no one wants to lose, leading to boring drawish games.

I'm for a total knock-out stage, just put the #1 of the qualification against #16 etc.
This makes for more tense games and you have to go all out when you're down.

Sure, this is less interesting commercially, but I don't care about commerce, I care about sports.
I'm a football enthusiast though nothing beats playing it yourself.

I can get really fed up by seeing a bunch of millionaires doing absolutely nothing and complaining that it's so tough to be a footballer.
Try working a night shift pouring asphalt or something.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2012, 05:13:02 pm »
0

I can't believe us Dutchies still have a chance to go through.

With the round robin there are so many times that the third game doesn't matter.
Now the Germans will undoubtedly start with their substitions and I don't blame them.
If you can save some energy of your players, you might as well do so.

And in first games no one wants to lose, leading to boring drawish games.

I'm for a total knock-out stage, just put the #1 of the qualification against #16 etc.
This makes for more tense games and you have to go all out when you're down.

Sure, this is less interesting commercially, but I don't care about commerce, I care about sports.
I'm a football enthusiast though nothing beats playing it yourself.

I can get really fed up by seeing a bunch of millionaires doing absolutely nothing and complaining that it's so tough to be a footballer.
Try working a night shift pouring asphalt or something.
You know, I'm surprised. Maybe this high-class football is something different, but my general reaction when not liking the format of a sport is to want MORE of it, not less.

lespeutere

  • 2012 German Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 488
  • Respect: +390
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2012, 05:23:18 pm »
0

Actually, I had the same feeling about the Dutch in their first match. They never really attacked the ball which is why I said the Danish were in control of the game. Of course, against Denmark there were more chances created, but still it didn't feel like there was a real chance to win the game.
Eventually it was exhausting as cherdano said, you cannot be sure against van Persie, Huntelaar, Sneijder etc with a difference of 1 goal only.
Again, the German offense was mostly effective, not spectacular. There was an improvement of Schweinsteiger and mostly of Lahm. Khedira did a good job again, not very noticeable, but that's kind of a compliment for a 6er. Podolski was certainly disappointing with regard to his offense, but he did a pretty good job defensively, better than we are used to.

After all, it was deserved, I think, so now it's going to be really interesting to see who advances in this group B.
Logged

ArjanB

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
  • Respect: +28
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2012, 05:54:10 pm »
0

Tomorrow, the Netherlands will destroy the Germans!

So, yeah, That went great. Now we only have to score two goals more than Portugal, that is only 200% more of what we have scored now, and Germany has to win!
Easy money!!
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2012, 03:01:39 am »
0

In al honesty from what we've seen so far, no team other than Germany deserves to advance.
Germany has played well those two games. Maybe not spectacular, but I noticed that everytime they had the ball their supporting midfielders - Schweinsteiger especially - participated in the attack.

And when they were on the defense they played very compact, every player - even the striker - was behind the ball when Holland was passing it around in their defense. This made it very hard for the Dutch to find a breakthrough.

Portugal, Denmark and Netherlands have all played appauling.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

cherdano

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2012, 04:30:02 am »
0

Portugal, Denmark and Netherlands have all played appauling.

I don't think this is quite fair. Netherlands played well against Denmark.

Portugal's offense works really well whenever they manage to avoid getting Ronaldo involved too much.

Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2012, 05:22:15 am »
0

Portugal, Denmark and Netherlands have all played appauling.

I don't think this is quite fair. Netherlands played well against Denmark.

Portugal's offense works really well whenever they manage to avoid getting Ronaldo involved too much.
Netherlands played well against Denmark, but not at the level we know they can.
They just dropped the ball completely against Germany. It was almost as if they had no interest whatsoever in winning.
I know it's tough when you're behind, but come on, instead of sulking around on the pitch, you should put some effort into it.

Portugal doesn't have a team. They have 11 individualists. There are so many wrong passes where you can clearly see they just don't understand each other. And Ronaldo fires every free kick into the stands or in the wall.

Denmark just lacks quality. Their goals comee from defensive errors rather than their offensive creativity. They just play boring.

The overall quality in this Euro is a bit lacking. I don't mind going back to 8 teams rather than 16.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

lespeutere

  • 2012 German Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 488
  • Respect: +390
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2012, 05:51:04 am »
0

The overall quality in this Euro is a bit lacking. I don't mind going back to 8 teams rather than 16.

I'm not sure whether it's a matter of the number of teams. Even Netherlands didn't play well last night, Germany struggled in their first, much like Spain etc.
I think there are two main reasons:
First, the tournament takes place after a looong season (I know what you US guys will come up with now, or those handball players here in Germany, but still), Bayern Munich's got 13 players in the Euro 12 - and they played the CL final just a month ago. Spanish and English teams have even more matches in their home leagues, and so on.
Second, and maybe even more important, there is some evolution with respect to tactics and it might just be that matches are not that spectacular to watch at this stage of 'football evolution'. Spain dominated 2008 and 2010 (playing without any strikers was just one more step in thinking the concept to the end, imho; I'm wondering what they would've done with Villa ready to play) but other teams have adapted to that. It is not that surprising they start struggling when Barcelona does, too (well, on a high level, but still it feels like they are).

And a last comment: Euro 2016 will be with 24 teams (like world cups until '94).
They saying goes, some people needed some votes - they got them from small countries which lacked chances to take part in these tournaments so far.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2012, 06:23:51 am »
0

Well, there is no doubt in my mind that the UEFA and FIFA are corrupt through and through and they don't care a bit about football, just their old pockets.

When Platini was appointed I thought he had some good ideas about the sport, but it turns out he's just another pocketfiller. Whether these orginzations make you like that or just brings it out, I don't know.

24 teams will be a monstrocity. We will get games like Slovenia - Montenegro, ugh.


There is only so much you can do with tactics. In the end, personal qualities are just as important and these qualities are the reason I enjoy football. I love watching Xavi and Iniesta receiving passes, because they have the ball under control within 1 second. I looked at Van Persie last night and the ball kept bouncing away. You just don't have that kind of time against a decent defense.

We have to realize that this is not the same team as at the World Cup. Sure, 9 players in the starting 11 were the same, but they're all 2 years older and when the best players don't bring it, it really shows how weak we are in the back. None of our defenders and defending midfielders are top class. It's all in the front. And when we don't get the ball to the front, we can't really bring the excitement.


I do think the football calendar is too full for most of these players, especially those in the English competition.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1323
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1379
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2012, 06:01:37 pm »
0

GROUP A:

Russia (4) v Greece (1), Czech Republic (3) v Poland (2)

No team is definitely through, no team is definitely out.

RUSSIA WIN, CZECH REPUBLIC WIN OR DRAW: Russia winners, Czech Republic runners-up.

RUSSIA WIN, CZECH REPUBLIC LOSE: Russia winners, Poland runners-up.

RUSSIA DRAW, CZECH REPUBLIC WIN: Czech Republic winners, Russia runners-up.

RUSSIA DRAW, CZECH REPUBLIC DRAW: Russia winners, Czech Republic runners-up.

RUSSIA DRAW, CZECH REPUBLIC LOSE: Russia and Poland qualify. If Poland's winning margin is less than 3, Russia are group winners; if it is more than 3, Poland are group winners. If Poland beat the Czechs by exactly 3 goals, it comes down to goals scored overall. (Currently Russia have 5, Poland 2.)

RUSSIA LOSE, CZECH REPUBLIC WIN: Czech Republic winners, Greece runners-up.

RUSSIA LOSE, CZECH REPUBLIC DRAW: Poland are out and the other three teams are tied on four points, with the Czech Republic's goal difference fixed at -2. Before this game, Russia's was +3 and Greece's -1, so if Greece win by:
1 or 2 goals: Russia winners, Greece runners-up (separated by goals scored in the latter case).
3 to 5 goals: Greece winners, Russia runners-up (again, goals scored keeps Russia ahead of the Czech Republic in the latter case).
6 or more goals: Greece winners, Czech Republic runners-up.

RUSSIA LOSE, CZECH REPUBLIC LOSE: Poland winners, Greece runners-up.

GROUP B:

Germany (6) v Denmark (3); Portugal (3) v Netherlands (0)

No team is definitely through; no team is definitely out.

GERMANY WIN, PORTUGAL WIN OR DRAW: Germany winners, Portugal runners-up.

GERMANY WIN, PORTUGAL LOSE: Germany winners. All other teams tied on 3 points;
...Netherlands win by 2 or more goals: Netherlands runners-up.
...Netherlands win by 1 goal and score 2 or more: Portugal runnners-up.
...Netherlands win 1-0: it comes down to overall goal difference in the group. If Germany beat Denmark by...
...more than 1 goal, Portugal are runners-up.
...one goal with Denmark scoring, Denmark are runners-up on goals scored.
...1-0, it goes to coefficients.

GERMANY DRAW, PORTUGAL WIN OR DRAW: Germany winners, Portugal runners-up.

GERMANY DRAW, PORTUGAL LOSE:
Germany winners, Denmark runners-up.

GERMANY LOSE, PORTUGAL WIN:
Netherlands are eliminated. The other three teams are tied on 6 points. If Denmark beat Germany by:
more than one goal, Denmark are winners, Portugal runners-up.
1-0: Denmark and Portugal qualify. Portugal win the group unless their win against Netherlands is precisely 1-0, in which case it goes to coefficients.
2-1: Denmark winners, Portugal runners-up.
3-2: Denmark winners. Portugal runners-up if they beat Netherlands by more than one goal, or by 1 goal with a 3-2 or greater scoreline. Germany will be runners-up if Portugal win 1-0. If Portugal win 2-1, it goes to coefficients.
4-3 or greater scoreline: Denmark winners, Germany runners-up.

GERMANY LOSE, PORTUGAL DRAW OR LOSE: Denmark winners, Germany runners-up.

GROUP C:

Spain (4) v Croatia (4), Italy (2) v Republic of Ireland (0).

No teams are definitely through, Republic of Ireland are definitely out.

SPAIN WIN, ITALY WIN: Spain winners, Italy runners-up.

SPAIN WIN, ITALY DRAW OR LOSE: Spain winners, Croatia runners-up.

SPAIN DRAW, ITALY WIN: Spain, Croatia and Italy all tie on 5 points. If the Spain-Croatia scoreline is:

0-0: Italy winners, Spain runners-up.
1-1: All rests on the Italy-Republic of Ireland game. If Italy win by:
...1 goal: Spain winners, Croatia runners-up.
...2 goals: Spain winners. If Italy win ...2-0, Croatia are runners-up. If Italy win 4-2 or any higher scoreline, Italy are runners-up. If Italy win 3-1, it goes to coefficients.
...3 goals: Spain winners, Italy runners-up.
...4 goals: Spain and Italy qualify. If Italy win 4-0, it goes to coefficients; otherwise, Italy winners, Spain runners-up.
...5 goals or more: Italy winners, Spain runners-up.
2-2 or any higher-scoring draw: Spain winners, Croatia runners-up.

SPAIN DRAW, ITALY DRAW OR LOSE: Spain winners, Croatia runners-up.

SPAIN LOSE, ITALY WIN: Croatia winners, Italy runners-up.

SPAIN LOSE, ITALY LOSE OR DRAW: Croatia winners, Spain runners-up.

GROUP D:

England (4) v Ukraine (3); France (4) v Sweden (0)

No team are definitely through; Sweden are definitely out.

ENGLAND WIN, FRANCE WIN: England and France qualify. If France match or better England's winning margin, France are group winners. If England better France's winning margin by two goals or more, England are group winners.
If England's winning margin is exactly one more than France's, it comes down to goals scored: if England score at least as many as France, England are group winners; if France score at least two more than England, France are group winners. If France score exactly one more than England, it goes to coefficients.

ENGLAND WIN, FRANCE DRAW OR LOSE: England winners, France runners-up.

ENGLAND DRAW, FRANCE WIN OR DRAW:
France winners, England runners-up.

ENGLAND DRAW, FRANCE LOSE:
England winners, France runners-up.

ENGLAND LOSE, FRANCE WIN:
France winners, Ukraine runners-up.

ENGLAND LOSE, FRANCE DRAW:
Ukraine winners, France runners-up.

ENGLAND LOSE, FRANCE LOSE: Ukraine winners. If Ukraine match or better Sweden's winning margin, France are group runners-up. If Sweden better Ukraine's winning margin by two goals or more, England are group runners-up.
If Sweden's winning margin is exactly one more than Ukraine's, it comes down to goals scored: if England score at least as many as France, England are group runners-up; if France score at least two more than England, France are group runners-up. If France score exactly one more than England, it goes to coefficients.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2012, 06:16:17 pm »
0

Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2012, 07:14:06 pm »
0

Phew, thats all i can say. A crazy 15 minutes after half time and they were all over us, but we came good when the pressure was on.
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2012, 05:36:23 pm »
0

HOW are the Russians not qualifying from that group! Unbelievable!
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2012, 05:53:12 pm »
0

Greece being in the quarterfinals is just awesome, for obvious reasons. I wasn't really invested in them until now, but I really want them to go farther now, even though/partly because it's extremely unlikely.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2012, 06:04:39 pm »
0

Greece being in the quarterfinals is just awesome, for obvious reasons. I wasn't really invested in them until now, but I really want them to go farther now, even though/partly because it's extremely unlikely.

Or: Argh 2004 all over again, hehe

I really wanted Poland to go through with Russia
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2012, 12:15:11 am »
+1

Greece being in the quarterfinals is just awesome, for obvious reasons. I wasn't really invested in them until now, but I really want them to go farther now, even though/partly because it's extremely unlikely.
Strenuously disagree.  They're probably my least favorite team in world football.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3603
  • Respect: +6121
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2012, 12:54:49 am »
0

Is that anything like strenuously objecting?
Logged

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2012, 02:18:45 am »
0

Is that anything like strenuously objecting?
Oh yes.  I've found that strenuous disagreement is precisely as effective in internet posts as it is in the court of law.
Logged

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2012, 04:05:56 am »
0

Well yeah, they're not a pleasant team to see play. It's just kind of a great story for Greece to do well in the Euro, considering the current situation of Greece.

I don't really want 2004 again, but still, I like the idea of Greece exceeding expectations this year.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2012, 04:43:07 am »
0

Greece being in the quarterfinals is just awesome, for obvious reasons. I wasn't really invested in them until now, but I really want them to go farther now, even though/partly because it's extremely unlikely.

Or: Argh 2004 all over again, hehe

2004 was Germany:Netherlands 1:1, so maybe not all over again.
Logged

Turambar

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2012, 05:00:45 am »
0

I really like Greece qualifying, because now all the "oh, they are not playing the Correct Type Of Football (TM)"-people are going to start complaining how bad this is for football, which I always find funny.

Playing football is about winning games, and Greece are (sometimes) extremely good at using their (not very good) players to do that effectively, which is impressive.

In the same way Chelsea deserved to win the Champions League final, because they defended well, and were effective. In general (barring mistakes by the referee) the team that wins almost always deserves it, for all sufficiently good definitions of "deserve to win".
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 05:32:50 am by Turambar »
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2012, 05:13:21 am »
0

I agree with the above statement, however the best football is not always the most entertaining football

And as long as it doesnt directly affect England then I want to see the most entertaining from other countries, and that means anyone but Greece!
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2012, 05:14:47 am »
0

Watching Greece play makes my eyes bleed.

Oh well, even if they win the Euro, they'll probably lose the Euro.  ::)
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

cherdano

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2012, 06:42:31 am »
0

Best comment on Greece (by a Spanish friend of mine, on facebook):
"I am not sure if being German I would like to play against Greece on Friday."
Logged

cherdano

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #99 on: June 17, 2012, 06:46:04 am »
0

In the same way Chelsea deserved to win the Champions League final, because they defended well, and were effective. In general (barring mistakes by the referee) the team that wins almost always deserves it, for all sufficiently good definitions of "deserve to win".

Soccer is inherently very random, just because it is decided by so few goals. If team A plays team B, and A will score 1.5 goals on averages versus B's 1.0 goals, then B will win occasionally. Even if teams A and B play equally well all the time.
So if B wins on one of those occasions, did B "deserve to win"? I didn't see the match Russia-Greece, but based on what I saw of the two teams before, I would have consider Russia the team A and Greece the team B. I would be very happy to bet on Russia in a rematch. Would you be willing to bet on Greece, based on the game you saw?

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All
 

Page created in 0.121 seconds with 21 queries.