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Author Topic: Euro 2012  (Read 36037 times)

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Davio

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2012, 06:32:46 am »
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I read your last post on your blog, olneyce, and I predicted the same semi-finalists as you did.
However, Germany can't face the Netherlands in the semi-finals since they will be:
winner (1. of A vs. 2. of B) - winner (1. of C vs. 2. of D)
winner (2. of A vs. 1. of B) - winner (2. of C vs. 1. of D)
This in contrast to the tourney of 2008 where it was possible for two of the same group to meet in the semis.
Indeed Spain did play Russia again which they had previously beat during the group stage.
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cherdano

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2012, 07:33:52 am »
+1

Heh, I am another one in that small corner of the Venn diagram where board game fans, football fans and NBA fans live...
So while it's really sad that isotropic is down, at least it happened with the Euros on the way and and exciting game 7 to come tonight  8)
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olneyce

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2012, 12:31:18 pm »
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I read your last post on your blog, olneyce, and I predicted the same semi-finalists as you did.
However, Germany can't face the Netherlands in the semi-finals since they will be:
winner (1. of A vs. 2. of B) - winner (1. of C vs. 2. of D)
winner (2. of A vs. 1. of B) - winner (2. of C vs. 1. of D)
Hmmm, it isn't even that I just assumed it had the same format as 2008.  I actually went and checked the bracket to make sure.  And I STILL got it wrong. 

Well, good.  The other system was silly.
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glengarry

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2012, 01:59:21 pm »
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how good were Denmark!  this generation of Dutch players deserve a lifetime of such humblings after WC2010 fiasco.  i think that 2-hour match was my new best time posted for not checking iso :-(
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greatexpectations

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2012, 02:03:02 pm »
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how good were Denmark!

uhhh...not very. they were bossed around the field most of the game. they allowed 32(!) shots, but the dutch only put 5 on frame. easily could have been 5-1.
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olneyce

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2012, 02:07:00 pm »
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how good were Denmark!

uhhh...not very. they were bossed around the field most of the game. they allowed 32(!) shots, but the dutch only put 5 on frame. easily could have been 5-1.
Disagree.  I would say the game was fairly balanced.  The Dutch took a lot of bad shots.  And the Danish defenders were fantastic closing down opportunities.  I will let Robben take pot shots from 20 yards all night long.  Robben hit the post once, Huntelaar had that glorious opportunity at about 70 minutes, and RVP might have put away a couple half-chances.  But Denmark could have scored one or two more, too.

Denmark had a game plan, they executed it, and it worked.  They got a little bit lucky, but you always need a bit of luck to get 3 points.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2012, 02:33:59 pm »
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fairly balanced?  you have to be kidding me. this was a repeat of the champions league semi between barcelona and chelsea. the dutch dominated shots, possession, scoring chances, corners, everything. the danes stuck to their game plan well enough, sure, but they were thoroughly outplayed.
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lespeutere

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2012, 02:40:58 pm »
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I think after some time of adjustment the Danish were mostly in control of the game. They let the Dutch have the ball, so what. Nothing happened. And once the Danish were in possession the Dutch were totally lacking any aggression to get it back. I would've gone crazy in van Marwijk's place to see even van Bommel just lingering instead of running and attacking the player in possession - apart from that one scene where he tried to send a message. We've got a saying here for that kind of a win, calling it "lucky but not undeserved".
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Davio

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2012, 02:55:58 pm »
+1

I think after some time of adjustment the Danish were mostly in control of the game. They let the Dutch have the ball, so what. Nothing happened. And once the Danish were in possession the Dutch were totally lacking any aggression to get it back. I would've gone crazy in van Marwijk's place to see even van Bommel just lingering instead of running and attacking the player in possession - apart from that one scene where he tried to send a message. We've got a saying here for that kind of a win, calling it "lucky but not undeserved".
I think you saw a different game and need new eyes.  :o

The Danish were never "in control" of the game, they were just "lucky" that the Dutch couldn't find the net. The Dutch just missed the last push to get it over the line. Sure, it was easy to play the ball round, because a lot of the Dutch players had given so much in the first half and they couldn't keep it up the entire game. Huntelaar and Van der Vaart should've been put in sooner. Van der Vaart played appauling though.

The best player, in my opinion, was Sneijder. He was everywhere, giving good passes and looking for combinations.

I wouldn't go so far as calling the Danish victory "lucky", but it was certainly undeserved. I'm not blaming the Danish for anything, they couldn't help it that the Dutch kept coming and needed to defend all the time. The Dutch just sold themselves short by not converting any of their gazillion chances.

I think it just shows that the pressure may be too much for Van Persie. He's a different player with Arsenal and with the Dutch team. Robben also isn't the man he was 2 years ago. Every one knows he is coming through on the inside and whereas his shots during the World Cup were always dangerous, now he's firing everything over instead of on the goal.

I don't understand any of the opinions here that the Danish were in control and that their defense played fantastic. I really don't. It's like you don't understand football at all. It's what we call "score board journalism".

In the end I don't think it was the Danish game plan that won them the game, it was the inability of the Dutch to convert any chances. But that was entirely the Dutch' own fault, not the Danish' accomplishment.
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yuma

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2012, 03:36:37 pm »
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Both of the games today have been a disappointment. The Dutch team didn't look good. They had chances, but were mostly half chances at best. Just lacked finishing touches, crisp passes and decent crosses.

The Danish back line player very, very well. Kept the Dutch frustrated throughout the game. But I was very surprised the Dutch never got one in the goal after soooo many shots.

No one really deserved to win that game. The Dutch at their best would have easily won. But they certainly weren't at their best... No where close in fact.

As for the Germany/Portugal game. My Germany team needs a few less touches before every pass and Portugal needs a few more. Niether team is playing optimally--weird Dominion lingo just got put into a football conversation. Portugal was unlucky to not get a goal right before halftime. I don't know who will win this one at the end. A tie looks very possible. Probably the best result for Netherlands?
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cherdano

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2012, 03:41:40 pm »
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I think the Danish were in control of the game - for about 15 minutes of the first half, following their goal... The Dutch had a shot hitting the post, two reasonable claims for a penalty, and half a dozens of good scoring position for van Persie. The Dutch can blame themselves for missing the scoring opportunities, but you can't call it an achievement of the Danish defense.

Sneijder was awesome. I thought both teams were better than any of teams of group A...
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Davio

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2012, 03:49:37 pm »
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I agree that the Dutch at their best would have won, but it just didn't go their way tonight. And the ref was no help either, missing a couple of 'hands' situations. I feared that they would get frustrated and would start to play dumb.

They tried to keep their head and let the goal flow, but they just missed that bit of luck in the penalty area. And when they came close, they missed. They have only themselves to blame.

But I find it hard to believe it was the great Danish defending that kept them from scoring. Any one who really believes that should get their head checked.

I'll let the statistics speak:

Attempts: 28 for Holland vs. 8 for Denmark.
Attacks: 48 for Holland vs. 31 for Denmark.
Corners: 11 for Holland vs. 4 for Denmark.
Big chances: 4 for Holland vs. just the 1 (the goal) for Denmark.
Source


On with Germany vs Portugal: I expected more from this game. I know Portugal is a defensive team and most of their players (barring Ronaldo and Nani) aren't that impressive. Even Pepe is just a sledgehammer, nothing more.

I wonder what Germany will try to break the Portuguese defense.
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Qvist

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2012, 05:36:46 pm »
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I agree with most of you. Sneijder played really impressive and Holland was really unlucky given the chances of Robben and stumbling van Persie. Ok, you need to make the goals, if you make none, you're not allowed to win. But a tie would be fair at least. Denmark only had one chance and even that was lucky. First the ball was blocked and got luckily to Krohn-Dehli and then he shot between the legs of the Dutch keeper, not fair. I agree that it was like Chelsea-Barca or like Chelsea-Munich in the Champions League.

Germany-Portugal was the least entertaining game so far. I'm half German, half Portuguese, so that was at least a special game for me. But it was really boring until the goal of Gomez. But I have to say a tie would be fair here too. Pepe's shot was very unlucky for Portugal and they had really big chances in the end. So 1-1 would be best.

Now it will get interesting. Holland has to win against Germany on Wednesday and if Denmark wins, Holland may even be out of the tournament. What a surprise!

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2012, 07:47:50 am »
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Germany are my tip to win it, which is hard, being english. Lost my joy at waching the Dutcvh play after the last final which was just the most thuggish way to play I have seen for a long time!

Russia are the new Croatia in my view, dark horses that could cause upsets but not win it.

Oh and I would describe the Danes game as 'holding on' rather than playing well. They won, so they got the important things right by scoring the most goals, but they sneaked one and then held on.

Will be cheering on the irish tonight

Football clearly is my favourite sport, but I do like lots of sports, American Football is pretty good, as is Baseball. Basketball just seems dull to me, I love stats, so I would be more likely to watch the stats than the actual game going on. Just because someone scores every minute doesnt make it exciting, its like 'you have a shot, then we have a shot, then you have a shot'. The build up to the actual points scoring is far more important, which is why I like NFL in terms of US sport much more I think (probably folloowed by Ice Hockey if they showed more of it on UK TV)
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lespeutere

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2012, 08:03:21 am »
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Regarding last night's game feelings are a little ambivalent. Germany played like they used to play when they were successful: not attractive, but effective, winning despite playing badly. And the defense played better than expected (except Lahm), Hummels did a good job except for 1 or 2 situations, Boateng made life for Ronaldo as difficult as he could. And then the crossbar and Neuer heleped.
The offense - well, I'm not really willing to call it offense. Too slow, too few ideas. Just effective.

Now I'm excited to see how Spain does against this chaotic Italian squad. And I hope Ireland vs Croatia exceeds my expectations, Trappatoni teams tend to play - uhm - 'a little' defensively..
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cherdano

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2012, 10:22:46 am »
+1

Basketball just seems dull to me, I love stats, so I would be more likely to watch the stats than the actual game going on. Just because someone scores every minute doesnt make it exciting, its like 'you have a shot, then we have a shot, then you have a shot'. The build up to the actual points scoring is far more important, which is why I like NFL in terms of US sport much more I think (probably folloowed by Ice Hockey if they showed more of it on UK TV)

But if you see a well-coached NBA team running an offense, there is a lot of build up towards creating a good shot, with various things happening at the same time. Meanwhile, defensive schemes are require more coordination than at any other sport that I understand.
Even though I had played basketball in high school, when I started watching NBA 4-5 years ago I honestly didn't see how much was going into any single possession.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 10:43:21 am by cherdano »
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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2012, 01:14:49 pm »
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Germany are my tip to win it, which is hard, being english.

Worse than if France won ?

Well, that's fairly unlikely, but our team has gotten better. Although, arguably, it's not hard to do better than the miserable trainwreck that was the World Cup.
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Ozle

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2012, 03:42:44 pm »
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Germany are my tip to win it, which is hard, being english.

Worse than if France won ?

Well, that's fairly unlikely, but our team has gotten better. Although, arguably, it's not hard to do better than the miserable trainwreck that was the World Cup.

Yep, definately much much worse. Too many footballing lessons handed out to the English by the Germans over the years, whereas in footballing terms France is just meh, cant even remember a time we have played any critical matches with them.
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Davio

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2012, 04:04:09 pm »
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I don't really care who wins.

We the Dutch have had our share of German defeats, but if they start playing as we know they can play with this team, I have no problem with them becoming European champions.

Of all the teams I've seen so far, I thought the Russians were the best. They played very well for 90 minutes, kept going AND converted it to a 4-1 win.
I liked how the Netherlands played, but if you don't score, well, it's hard to win, ey?

The Spanish were also quite impressive but you can see they're also very weak in the back.

Netherlands, Spain and Germany all have the same kind of teams: They're strongest in the midfield with players like Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta and Özil and weak in the back. Piqué has had a bad season, Netherlands had to call on some rookies due to injuries and no other good options and Germany didn't play that good all around.

It's very hard to choose between playing well and losing and playing bad and winning. You'd rather have both, but it always seems Netherlands does the first and Germany does the latter. Let's hope this year the champion will be the one who has played the best.
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Ozle

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2012, 04:14:07 pm »
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It's very hard to choose between playing well and losing and playing bad and winning. You'd rather have both, but it always seems Netherlands does the first and Germany does the latter. Let's hope this year the champion will be the one who has played the best.

I think you mean entertaining rather than best?

with the aim being to win games, the team that wins will be the best

[irony]And if you want entertaining, you wait till the Liverpool England take the field and Stuart Downing is marauding down the wing![/irony]
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lespeutere

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2012, 11:58:37 am »
+1

Best match so far imho was actually Spain vs Italy, since I found it very intense. And I was surprised a little by the Italians. They did a really good job at denying clear chances to the Spanish without ONLY defending around the box all game long.
Best team performance was from Russia despite their periods of rest. It will be interesting to see how they can avoid those in matches against strong teams (which they will face from the 1/4finals).
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yuma

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2012, 08:28:05 pm »
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Best match so far imho was actually Spain vs Italy, since I found it very intense. And I was surprised a little by the Italians. They did a really good job at denying clear chances to the Spanish without ONLY defending around the box all game long.
Best team performance was from Russia despite their periods of rest. It will be interesting to see how they can avoid those in matches against strong teams (which they will face from the 1/4finals).

Agreed, Spain/Italy was fun to watch despite the 1-1 tie, on the other hand England/France was a boor. I think a lot of teams went into the first game with the philosophy of being happy with a tie. An ok, strategy but doesn't always make for the most attractive football.

I wasn't going to watch the Ukraine/Sweden game but I was glad I did. Two decent teams battling it out. Fun, but probably not that significant in the whole of the tournament.
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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2012, 08:48:22 pm »
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Germany are my tip to win it, which is hard, being english.

Worse than if France won ?

Well, that's fairly unlikely, but our team has gotten better. Although, arguably, it's not hard to do better than the miserable trainwreck that was the World Cup.

Yep, definately much much worse. Too many footballing lessons handed out to the English by the Germans over the years, whereas in footballing terms France is just meh, cant even remember a time we have played any critical matches with them.

That's a fair point. I'm mostly a rugby fan, so France-England always feels special to me, even though we don't have that much history in football.

By the way, that match was quite good. France played well, and we probably deserved to win I feel, but the English were solid defensively, so I guess a draw is fine. The referee was all over the place though, for both sides.
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olneyce

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2012, 09:41:20 pm »
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France/England was boring, but it was an interesting sort of boring, if that makes sense.

There wasn't any significant tactical shift over the game.  There wasn't anything tremendously surprising.  France played cagey, possession-oriented football, while England seems to have very quickly adopted a classic Hodgson two-banks-of-four style.  That's all exactly as expected.  But it was tense, thanks to the importance of the occasion.  And maybe it's just me, but I find that sort of battle to be interesting to watch.  I understand enough about tactics to be able to actually follow what they're trying to do, but not enough that it's just totally boring to me.
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Davio

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Re: Euro 2012
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2012, 03:29:36 am »
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How about that Shevchenko ey?

"I'll just hand deliver the first victory of my team with two superb headers"
What a turnaround!

Good for them, it looked like they won the final the way they were celebrating, it was very enjoyable to watch.
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