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[Voltgloss]

Welcome to Mafia IV: Within These Estate Walls!

Per the players' unanimous vote, a Discussion Quicktopic for spectators (and deceased non-Mafia players) has now been created for this game.  If you would like to join, please PM me and I will send you the link.  Thanks.

The Game Is Over - Mafia Wins!
Players Signed Up:
1 - Galzria (DEAD - Killed Night 2; Town Vanilla)
2 - Dsell (Mafia Goon)
3 - Insomniac (DEAD - Killed Night 1; Town Vanilla)
4 - Robz888 (DEAD - Killed Night 5; Town Vanilla)
5 - Captain_Frisk (DEAD - Lynched Day 5; Witch)
6 - O (DEAD - Lynched Day 2; Mafia Goon)
7 - Axxle1 (DEAD - Lynched Day 1; Town Vanilla)
8 - theorel (DEAD - Killed Night 1; Town Village Idiot)
9 - Glooble (Mafia Thief)
10 - popsofctown (DEAD - Killed Night 4; Town Vanilla)
11 - Tables (ENDGAMED; Town Chaplain)
12 - Grujah (DEAD - Killed Night 2; Town Woodcutter)
13 - jotheonah (DEAD - Lynched Day 3; Town Vanilla)
14 - SwitchedFromStarcraft (ENDGAMED; Town Spy)
15 - Axxle2 (replaced Green Opal) (DEAD - Lynched Day 4; Town Vanilla)

Mafia Ruleset (blatantly stolen from Axxle's Mafia II intro post)

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline.  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will generally have 2 week deadlines.  (There will be a 3 week deadline for Day 1 to accommodate a participant's announced-in-advance vacation.)  If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, no lynch will occur, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
8. If a one-shot power is roleblocked, the power IS used up.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

Game Setup
Game Setup information:

This game has a semi-open setup.  Any of the below-listed roles may be present in the game.  If a role is not listed below, it will not appear in this game.

There will be a total of fifteen players, consisting of:
- between eleven and thirteen Town players (including between zero and eight power roles);
- between two and four Mafia players; and
- zero or one Witch {Serial Killer} players.

The exact distribution of roles is randomly distributed.  To keep the game balanced, the more power roles there are among the Town players, the more players and/or power roles there are among the anti-Town players.  It is possible that multiple players may have the same role.

All roles have been "reskinned" for Dominion flavor.  This has not substantively changed any of the roles from their normal Mafia versions.  For each role, the "normal" Mafia name is provided in {curly braces}.  A list of all roles potentially in the game, with their "normal" Mafia names provided, follows:

- Adventurer {Town Cop}
- Chaplain {Town Doctor}
- Militiaman {Town Vigilante}
- Bureaucrat {Town Roleblocker}
- Spy {Town One-Shot Cop}
- Moat Builder {Town One-Shot Doctor}
- Woodcutter {Town One-Shot Vigilante}
- Moneylender {Town One-Shot Roleblocker}
- Village Idiot {Town Innocent Child}
- Gardener {Town Mason}
- Thief {Mafia Roleblocker}
- Chancellor {Mafia Godfather}
- Witch {Serial Killer}
- Vanilla Townie
- Mafia Goon

Here are all the role PMs that can be in the game:

-----------------------------------------

Town Vanilla
Welcome to Mafia IV!

You couldn't believe it when the local lord invited you to his personal Estate for a week-long Feast.  You're certainly in distinguished company - all these other influential folks from the Village - it's all you can do to remember to keep your elbows off the table and remember which way to pass the bread versus which way to pass the wine.  But then his lordship dropped dead halfway through the suckling pig, and somebody started going on about poison and the Mafia, and now you're trapped in the Estate grounds with the portcullis keys nowhere to be found.  One thing's for sure:  if only Mafia are left when those gates get opened, the Town is at their mercy.  You've got to stop them now.  You and your friends.  If only you knew who they were...

You are a Townie, a Vanilla Townie.

Your weapon is your vote.  You have no night actions.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Adventurer {Cop}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Sure, it shocked you as much as the rest of them when the local bigwig fell face-first into a butchered pig's ass, but you've seen worse.  You've sought the sacred river Alph and walked the caves of ice.  You've dealt with trickier situations, and you know what's most important:  information.  Here, that means information on your fellow Estate dwellers.  A good Adventurer knows not to rest until the puzzle is solved.  Hopefully, you'll stay alive long enough to do just that.

You are a Townie, a Town Adventurer {Cop}.

Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod.  You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Spy {One-Shot Cop}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Who'd believe the Duke was really onto something when he sent you to this backwater Village.  Months of hard work establishing your cover as a prominent local, watching, listening, waiting... finally paid off.  The Mafia are here, right here in the Estate with you, and they've started to get their hands dirty.  Now you walk a fine line.  Sure, you're certainly equipped to get to the bottom of things, but you can't tip your hand completely - for someone in your profession, that's worse than death.  You've seen the Torturers.  You know what they can do.  On the other hand, letting the Mafia take over means you're dead anyway.  So, just a LITTLE spying, then.  All things in moderation.  Hopefully it'll be just enough.

You are a Townie, a Town Spy {One-Shot Cop}.

Once at night, you may investigate a player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Chaplain {Doctor}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

The stink of evil.  You thought it was the stink of trichinosis in that pig, but no, it's worse than that.  The Mafia have come.  Time for us all to get on our knees and pray.  Well, you, at least.  Prayer can do some wondrous things.  Like the time the Mine collapsed with four Villagers trapped inside.  You prayed your ass off that day, and look, they all made it out alive.  Well, not counting Bob, but Bob was a jerk anyway.  You weren't praying for him.  Directed prayer.  Targeted prayer.  It's what you do best.  Hopefully your prayers will be strong enough to keep the Mafia at bay.  It's your toughest challenge yet, but hey, that's why you invested in these triple-thick kneepads.

You are a Townie, a Town Chaplain {Doctor}.

Each night phase, you may protect one player in the game from one nightkill.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Moat Builder {One-Shot Doctor}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Pappy always said:  "Ain't no problem a Moat can't solve.  Or stop.  Or at least hinder for a while.  Depends what you put in the moat.  Water, that's the old standard, tried and true, not that inventive.  Add some alligators, now you're thinking.  Boiling oil works too - not with the alligators though, unless fondue's your thing.  Mmm, fondue.  Go get Pappy some more o' that cheese."  Yup, Pappy knew his moats, just like you know yours.  Too bad there's a shortage of crocodiles and boiling oil here.  Got some water though.  Wine too.  Yup, when the time is right, you're gonna build the best moat you ever built, stump the Mafia real good.  They all laughed when you explained your patented indoor-moat invention.  You'll be the one laughing now.  Too bad you've only got enough shovels to build one.  But maybe one, when it counts, is all you'll need.

You are a Townie, a Town Moat Builder {One-Shot Doctor}.

Once at night, you may protect a player in the game from one nightkill.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Militiaman {Vigilante}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

You'd have arrested the pig on the spot, but even the most ornery half-eaten pig can't make a man cough out his own lungs.  No, this was poison all right, cough-out-your-lungs poison, clearly the work of those cowardly Mafia.  Now they've made off with the portcullis keys and you all are trapped here, like rats, or maybe pigs, or maybe rats in the carcass of a half-eaten pig.  But lunch can wait.  They picked the wrong Militiaman to trap in their little game.  Specifically, the one who brings a crossbow and twenty bolts with him wherever he goes.  It's in your room now, oiled and shiny.  Vera, her name is.  C'mon Vera.  They want to play with us?  Let's play.

You are a Townie, a Town Militiaman {Vigilante}.

Each night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Woodcutter {One-Shot Vigilante}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

You're going to have to start stocking better varnish.  That Throne Room table was a masterpiece of your work, and yet all it took was one little acid-filled pig to eat the finish right off.  But varnish, for once, is going to have to wait.  The Mafia are here and they've got more deadly things on their mind than carpentry.  Back in your room, you heft your little hatchet.  Small, but sharp.  Good for throwing.  The Mafia aren't going to let you get close, so throwing is going to have to do.  Too bad you can't throw the same axe twice.  Well, you could, but man, contact with bone just dulls the edge down to nothing.  You're a craftsman; you use only the best tools.  So, one throw.  One.  Better make it count.

You are a Townie, a Town Woodcutter {One-Shot Vigilante}.

Once at night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Bureaucrat {Roleblocker}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

DEAC section 781.3(b) provides that, upon the catastrophic illness, dismemberment, or dissolving of an Estate-holder or higher status, immediate command of municipal and local staff passes temporarily to the highest-ranking town official on hand.  Fortunately, no one here knows that, so you were able to quote the regulations on "no hay baling after 9 on Tuesdays" to get the Estate servants listening to you instead.  Not that they're going to help you find the Mafia.  The best they can do is get in someone's way.  But there's an infestation of them, and only a few of you leaders who could actually be the Mafia, and so maybe having the staff cowed by your encyclopaedic knowledge of the wage and hour code isn't such a bad thing.  People talk about "obstruction of justice."  You know that, in the right hands, obstruction IS justice.

You are a Townie, a Town Bureaucrat {Roleblocker}.

Each night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action at night if they have one.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Moneylender {One-Shot Roleblocker}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

It's that blank feeling all over again.  You were sure a lucrative investment deal with the lord was going to refill your Silver coffers, but now he's up and exploded or something and everyone's yelling about the Mafia.  The Mafia.  Fools.  When will they realize that the profits of their "legitimate" business pale in comparison to legitimate business.  Ruthless, grasping, usurious, legitimate business.  Well, business does you no good when you're dead.  Let's see... yes, between those ten staffmembers, they owe you almost three Gold ingots worth of interest.  Perhaps leveraging that loan into saving your hide isn't such a bad deal.  Of course, the thing about loans is, you can only forgive them once.  But if that one bit of "forgiveness" gets a bunch of peons to get in the Mafia's way - why, it might even be a good karma investment.  Perhaps the best you ever made...

You are a Townie, a Town Moneylender {One-Shot Roleblocker}.

Once at night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action on this night if they have one.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Village Idiot {Innocent Child}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Gawrsh!  Who'da thunk bringin' back that letter to the Estate woulda got you at table with so much ta eat!  You tried to explain to the nice men with spears that it warn't your letter, you picked it up back where that one fella with the purple hat dropped it, but they just kept ticklin' him with those spears and you certainly warn't gonna get in the way o' their fun.  So here ya are, eatin' like a king, and then the king up and disintimegrated or sumthin' an' now everyone's like 'We're all gonna die!'  Naw, that's silly.  You just have to explain to 'em that everythin' can be solved with buyin' Villages.  Just, more Villages.  Villages're great.  The more you get, the more you can do, and the more you can do, the more you can get!  But hey, no need to be all hasty.  That wisdom's gotta come at the right time.  Then they'll all look at you an' say what they always say:  'This idiot can't be Mafia.  He just can't.'  An' you'll nod, an' smile, an' the Villages'll make it all better.

You are a Townie, a Town Village Idiot {Innocent Child}.

At any time during the game, you may send a PM to the Mod asking to be revealed.  The Mod will then in his next post publicly announce you as a Village Idiot, confirming you as Town.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Town Gardener {Mason}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

The silly lord got what was coming to him.  With his blathering on about Duchies and Provinces, it was clear he had no idea where true success lay.  Now he lay dead, and perhaps it's for the best, but... not under these circumstances.  Not at the hands of the Mafia.  You heard what they did to poor popsofctown.  They were routed there, by the best Gardeners among us, but now they've sprung up here.  Like a fungus that must be carefully tilled away.  Well, at least you know who to trust.  It took a while of giving the passcode phrase, but finally someone knew the answer.  "I have an extra Buy."  "No, you have an extra Copper."  Perfect.  You quickly gave your new best friend the Gardeners' salute, and hurried out to the Courtyard to discuss strategy.  Working together, perhaps you can bring down the Mafia here as well.

You are a Townie, a Town Gardener {Mason}, along with your partner(s) [Player Name(s)].

You are confirmed Town to your Gardener partner(s) and vice versa. You are permitted to talk to your partner(s) during pregame and at nights here [QuickTopic link].

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one Town player alive.

-----------------------------------------

Mafia Goon
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Da boss was right.  He always is, that's what makes him da boss.  Or maybe it's that ten-foot crossbow he calls da "Piecemaker."  Anyway.  Da disguises were easy, gettin' in was a snap, and stuffin' dat pig was a stroke o' genious.  Now, jus' gotta pick off all da rest o' dese fools.  Nighttime's always best for dat kinda work.  Sure, de're lookin' around suspicious-like, an' sometimes de're lookin' at youse, but do dey really tink dey can figure out who's who before it's all become who's dead?  Wouldn't bet two Coppers on it.

You are Mafia, a Mafia Goon.  Your partner(s) are [Player Name(s)].

During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

-----------------------------------------

Mafia Thief {Roleblocker}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Killing's the easy part.  Absolutely ruining someone's day, now there's good work.  Sure, killing does that, but it also ENDS their day, and that cuts off the fun early.  You much prefer to strip away everything they hold dear.  A crossbow here.  A prayer book there.  A pack of three shovels, two pickaxes, and 'indoors-only' dynamite is a bit of a stretch, but well within your talents.  The boss wants them dead, and you don't blame him - but you have to have your fun too.  The boss knows you like to have fun.  That's why he sent you.  When you have fun, people can't do what THEY think is fun.  And their ideas of fun are just... well, not so much fun for you.  And the Mafia.  But mostly you.  And for them to stop your fun - well that's just MEAN, don't you think?  Meanies.  They're gonna rue the day they were so mean to you.

You are Mafia, a Mafia Thief {Roleblocker}.  Your partner(s) are [Player Name(s)].

During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Each night phase, you individually may perform a roleblock on another player in the game.  You cannot block and kill in the same night.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

-----------------------------------------

Mafia Chancellor {Godfather}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

"Claims he's worth having around.  Isn't."  That's what they all said.  Oh, not to your face, but they were all THINKING it.  "Chancellor Useless" they'd say, back at the Provincial palace.  Well, not say.  But they were all thinking it.  So you did the only thing an evil Chancellor could do.  You formed the newest local branch of the Mafia.  The Province will be yours one day, Estate by Estate, starting right here, right now.  And they'll never suspect you.  How could they?  You already covered your tracks.  All the evidence, neatly gathered up, into one nice little pile, and then... discarded.  All gone.  They have nothing on you.  Soon though, they'll have everything on them.  And by "everything," you mean their internal organs.  All neatly gathered up into one nice little pile.  And then... discarded.

You are Mafia, a Mafia Chancellor {Godfather}.  Your partner(s) are [Player Name(s)].

During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
You appear "Town" to Adventurer or Spy investigations.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

-----------------------------------------

Witch {Serial Killer}
Welcome to Mafia IV!

Ia!  Ia!  Strange aeons, even Death may die!  Zarkathoth TOLD you this day would come!  Zarkathoth TOLD you that the acCursed Estate would fall one day, and to be there to help it along!  Zarkathoth KNEW to eviscerate that stupid fool at the Library and install you in as the new keeper of the Town's knowledge!  They never suspected, never once, where your true allegiances lay.  Now, now, toads burp and pigs explode and the omens are perfect for a little murder spree.  The Mafia, the Town, they're all bones on their way to dust.  Zarkathoth will help.  You're sure of it.  You've already cast your protective hexes and ringed your room with deathtrap charms.  They'll never know, never suspect, and by the end of the week, they will all be dead.  And then... THEN... it's finally time for a REAL Feast.

You are a Witch {Serial Killer}.

Pregame you must choose to be either Investigation Immune or 1-Shot Bulletproof.
- If you choose Investigation Immune, you appear "Town" to Adventurer or Spy investigations.
- If you choose 1-Shot Bulletproof, you will be passively protected from the first nightkill that would otherwise resolve on you. 

Each night phase, you may select a player in the game to nightkill.

You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

-----------------------------------------

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[Galzria]

In.



Now I'll go read your post.

[Dsell]

This is super super tempting but I'm afraid that my week-long vacation starting in two weeks might really get in the way of things. :/

[Voltgloss]

This is super super tempting but I'm afraid that my week-long vacation starting in two weeks might really get in the way of things. :/

I plan to have two-week deadlines, so I wouldn't think a week-long vacation necessarily means you can't join in.  As long as you let everyone know well ahead of time when you'll be gone and when you'll back and able to post.

[Dsell]

That...could work. Ok, crossing my fingers that the timing will work out...I'm in!

[Insomniac]

I'm in, (if you'll have the guy who accidently broke a rule in 2 )

[Grujah]

Hm... tempting.

[Morgrim7]

I am not playing, but I am excited to watch. Voltgloss, will you make a discussion thread for this?

[Insomniac]

Rules clarification, if a one shot role is roleblocked do they forfeit there action permanently or do they get that action back?

IE Im a Woodcutter and choose to kill Galzria a Mafia Goon. however the Theif Robz roleblocks me. Does this constitute my one action during the game or does it return to me as i was blocked from using my role?

(This is an example and I had absolutely no reason behind making Galzria and Robz mafia )

[Galzria]

Alright, I'll be the one to say it:

Robz is in.

I mean, we all know he isn't human. He's a Mafia machine. How could I be wrong?

[Insomniac]

Agreed plus I mean he's ONLY in ONE mafia and ONE resistance now, thats not 3 and one. 2 and 1 is NOTHING for Robz

[Galzria]

Rules clarification, if a one shot role is roleblocked do they forfeit there action permanently or do they get that action back?

IE Im a Woodcutter and choose to kill Galzria a Mafia Goon. however the Theif Robz roleblocks me. Does this constitute my one action during the game or does it return to me as i was blocked from using my role?

(This is an example and I had absolutely no reason behind making Galzria and Robz mafia )

Oh yeah. Sure. I believe you.

[Voltgloss]

I am not playing, but I am excited to watch. Voltgloss, will you make a discussion thread for this?

I don't plan to unless EVERY player in the game is OK with that.  I know there are some potential players who haven't joined pending or finished games because of the presence of discussion threads.  I want to leave the option open for them to join this one, if they wish.  But, once the player roster is completely full, if ALL players are OK with a discussion thread existing then I'll make a quicktopic for it.

Rules clarification, if a one shot role is roleblocked do they forfeit there action permanently or do they get that action back?

Excellent question.  The Mafiascum wiki says "there is no consensus" on this question, so that's no help.    I am inclined to rule that the one-shot role is NOT used up if roleblocked, but if a more experienced Mafia player has some comments on which is the better resolution I'm interested to hear.  The question will be definitively resolved one way or another before the game starts, and the resolution will be added to the opening post.

EDIT:  Subsequent to this post, I was convinced of the benefits of using the opposite rule:  that one-shot powers ARE consumed even if roleblocked.  Making this edit here to forestall any potential confusion.

[Grujah]

And what if (one roleblocker blocks another) one roleblocker blocks another roleblacker blocking a power role?

[Robz888]

I am in, obviously.

[Captain_Frisk]

I am in, obviously.

Sign me up too.

[Dsell]

I don't plan to unless EVERY player in the game is OK with that.  I know there are some potential players who haven't joined pending or finished games because of the presence of discussion threads.  I want to leave the option open for them to join this one, if they wish.  But, once the player roster is completely full, if ALL players are OK with a discussion thread existing then I'll make a quicktopic for it.

FWIW, I have no problem at all with a quicktopic (in fact I think it would be fun to go back and read) but I'm less thrilled by a discussion topic on-forum, even spoiler-protected. It's a lot harder to enforce equality that way.

[Voltgloss]

And what if (one roleblocker blocks another) one roleblocker blocks another roleblacker blocking a power role?

Another good question.  The wiki indicates that the prevailing opinion is to run the roleblocks in order starting with the one that ISN'T itself roleblocked.  In other words, if the night commands are as follows:

1. Robz roleblocks Galzria
2. Galzria roleblocks Insomniac
3. Insomniac roleblocks Dsell
4. Dsell kills Voltgloss

Then the results are:

1. Robz is the only one not blocked, so he goes first, and blocks Galzria
2. Galzria's block thus has no effect
3. Insomniac's block goes next, so he blocks Dsell's kill, and Voltgloss lives another day 

I'm inclined to use this.

[WanderingWinder]

I don't plan to unless EVERY player in the game is OK with that.  I know there are some potential players who haven't joined pending or finished games because of the presence of discussion threads.  I want to leave the option open for them to join this one, if they wish.  But, once the player roster is completely full, if ALL players are OK with a discussion thread existing then I'll make a quicktopic for it.

FWIW, I have no problem at all with a quicktopic (in fact I think it would be fun to go back and read) but I'm less thrilled by a discussion topic on-forum, even spoiler-protected. It's a lot harder to enforce equality that way.

It's impossible to have equality.



I could squawk again about forcing other people to be silent in the public place of the forum; if you're going to play here, you'd better be ok with having discussion here, etc. etc. etc. Or you could just read the stuff I've already posted about that....

[Dsell]

I don't plan to unless EVERY player in the game is OK with that.  I know there are some potential players who haven't joined pending or finished games because of the presence of discussion threads.  I want to leave the option open for them to join this one, if they wish.  But, once the player roster is completely full, if ALL players are OK with a discussion thread existing then I'll make a quicktopic for it.

FWIW, I have no problem at all with a quicktopic (in fact I think it would be fun to go back and read) but I'm less thrilled by a discussion topic on-forum, even spoiler-protected. It's a lot harder to enforce equality that way.

It's impossible to have equality.



I could squawk again about forcing other people to be silent in the public place of the forum; if you're going to play here, you'd better be ok with having discussion here, etc. etc. etc. Or you could just read the stuff I've already posted about that....

Well I have, and I agree for the most part. And I am ok with it. That's the case with Mafia III, and it's not THAT bad to just ignore it. I just said that I'm less thrilled by that than by a quicktopic. Of course we won't have perfect equality but I don't like rewarding dishonest players with the analysis of the whole community either. But really, I'm fine either way. Just a preference. Voltgloss was obviously asking the opinion of the people playing, so I gave mine.

[O]

I'm in

[Axxle]

/in looking forward to it!

[theorel]

I'm in.

[Glooble]

I would like to play! I have not posted in any of the discussions, but have been following Mafia II and III fairly closely.

[popsofctown]

In because you wrote flavor for every possible role.

[Galzria]

In because you wrote flavor for every possible role.

Volt never goes halfway. It's an admirable trait. Noticed it about him in M-II. Made him hard to convince. Will make him a good moderator. Looking forward to this game.

[Eevee]

When is this starting?

[Insomniac]

I could be wrong but probably once it hits 13 players, so I would imagine in the next day or 2. Monday would be a safe bet for pre-game or even starting depending on how hot this topic gets

[Eevee]

I could be wrong but probably once it hits 13 players, so I would imagine in the next day or 2. Monday would be a safe bet for pre-game or even starting depending on how hot this topic gets

Hmmh, I'd def be in (sounds like a fun setup too) if it was a bit later, but atm I'm busy enough with mafia I and I dont want to be a lurking member so not participating I guess.

[Eevee]

I could be wrong but probably once it hits 13 players, so I would imagine in the next day or 2. Monday would be a safe bet for pre-game or even starting depending on how hot this topic gets

Hmmh, I'd def be in (sounds like a fun setup too) if it was a bit later, but atm I'm busy enough with mafia I and I dont want to be a lurking member so not participating I guess.

If you somehow have difficulties with getting enough players or something, I could play though. Only having an ipad available makes typing somewhat slow and I feel I'm spending all my online time playing mafia III already and would obviously rather play one game properly than two without being able to put in enough effort.

(Meant mafia III in the last post as well.)

[popsofctown]

Roleblocks are best resolved based on dependency imo. 

On the one shot topic,
If a one-shot gets roleblocked, his power is gone, as I've always known it.  You create a terrible problem with the one shot Doc if you don't do it that way: if he tries to protect someone but is roleblocked, he shouldn't be informed.  But if that player isn't targetted for a kill, he has no idea he was roleblocked.  If you let him keep his shot, he has another Doc shot but has no idea he does.  He could send in protection PMs every night just in case, but that's a pain, it's a potentially unnecessary decision with lots of gravity if it's real.

Furthermore, allowing a one-shot to keep his shot even though he was roleblocked subverts the concept of the roleblocker.  The idea is that if a mafia roleblocker PR hunts well enough to block a cop, he will investigate 2 times all game instead of 3 and do some damage that way.  If he roleblocks a one shot cop, he should investigate 0 times instead of 1 time all game.  Delaying an investigation or delaying a protection is a very negligible amount of damage, so you have a roleblocker that randomly fails when he hits the "wrong" PR, which is dumb. 
If you want the roleblocker to interact that way it seems like you don't want a roleblocker at all.

[Robz888]

By the way, these flavor paragraphs were awesomely well done. Hats off to you, Volt.

[Tables]

I shall join. Maybe I'll survive beyond night 1 this time...

[Grujah]

Ah. the Hell, I'm in. 

[Axxle]

I shall join. Maybe I'll survive beyond night 1 this time...

Play worse

[Robz888]

It looks like we have room for one additional player....

[popsofctown]

No Robz. No.  You can't sign up twice.

[Galzria]

No Robz. No.  You can't sign up twice.

Awesome.

[WanderingWinder]

No Robz. No.  You can't sign up twice.

"I swear, that Robz A guy is mafia!"
"Robz B, are you breaking the outside of the game communication rules? Have you been talking to Robz A?"
(shifty eyes)

[Robz888]

There might be something to this Rob A and Rob B theory! Honestly, during the first round of Mafia II, I had convinced myself that Morgrim was mafia.

I remember thinking: "Oh, yes, we got him now. Look at him squirm. We caught that mafia son of a... no, wait. Wait a minute. I'm the mafia."

[Voltgloss]

Robz A: Welcome to Mafia IV!  You are a Gardener, along with your partner, Robz B!

[Voltgloss]

Thanks to all who enjoyed the flavor paragraphs.  I enjoyed writing them.  I'm looking forward to adding more flavor along these lines throughout the game. 

On the one shot topic,
If a one-shot gets roleblocked, his power is gone, as I've always known it.  You create a terrible problem with the one shot Doc if you don't do it that way: if he tries to protect someone but is roleblocked, he shouldn't be informed.  But if that player isn't targetted for a kill, he has no idea he was roleblocked.  If you let him keep his shot, he has another Doc shot but has no idea he does.  He could send in protection PMs every night just in case, but that's a pain, it's a potentially unnecessary decision with lots of gravity if it's real.

Furthermore, allowing a one-shot to keep his shot even though he was roleblocked subverts the concept of the roleblocker.  The idea is that if a mafia roleblocker PR hunts well enough to block a cop, he will investigate 2 times all game instead of 3 and do some damage that way.  If he roleblocks a one shot cop, he should investigate 0 times instead of 1 time all game.  Delaying an investigation or delaying a protection is a very negligible amount of damage, so you have a roleblocker that randomly fails when he hits the "wrong" PR, which is dumb. 
If you want the roleblocker to interact that way it seems like you don't want a roleblocker at all.

Thanks pops.  I don't feel strongly either way, so if this is what you've seen in the past and has worked well, then that's what we'll use.  Unless someone else has played with one-shots not getting used up if roleblocked, and can describe their experiences therewith as positive?

Roleblocks are best resolved based on dependency imo.

Just so I'm clear:  is that what I described, or are you picturing some other method?  I confess I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "dependency."  Apologies for my denseness. 

[popsofctown]

It's what you described.  Sorry for not explaining more clearly, dependency is a concept from Magic: the Gathering rules, it became so understandable to me I didn't realize it's not an immediately clear concept.

[Voltgloss]

Just one more sign-up needed, and we'll be underway!

[Galzria]

Hum. Debating staying signed up. Love the flavor, and believe I would enjoy your moderating, but... Hum.

[Voltgloss]

Hum. Debating staying signed up. Love the flavor, and believe I would enjoy your moderating, but... Hum.

Galzria, I sense you're feeling "burnt out" and wondering about whether to continue these Mafia games at all.  In the end, it's just a game, and not worth getting RL upset over.  So if you want to withdraw, that's fine, but... maybe if you tried a game where you committed up front to not posting SO much as you have in, say, M-II (no comment on ongoing M-III)?  I'm only suggesting this because I think you may be getting "burnt out," and I don't know how you kept up your pace in M-II so long anyway.  You can be part of and enjoy these games without having to post novels.  Not that posting novels can't be fun, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do so if you join.

Of course it's your decision to stay or go.  That said, I'd love to have you in this game and think you'd add a lot to it. 

[Galzria]

Nah, I'll stay. It's not so much a burn-out thing as getting upset about being accused of belittling people (basically). Something I never intended if it felt that way, and would never do. I pointed out with (I believe), an Eevee-O exchange, that things shouldn't get personal, and should remain fun for all parties.

Writing books, fighting for my beliefs, posting 1000 times a day about pineapples: I don't mind all of that. Using emoticons and being certain, sometimes I do just to annoy Robz.

But I would never intentionally insult or belittle anyone, and was fuming (a bit) over being accused of doing so. It's not who I am, well, anywhere. And yeah, I took it a bit personal.

Still want in here. If only because I'm "certain" that you'll run a rather enjoyable game.

[Insomniac]

Come on only one more! SPACE AND TIME ARE LIMITED. (While supplies last, this is a limited time offer, this offer has not been approved by the FDA and may or may not include side affects including nausea, heartburn, and drowsiness)

[Morgrim7]

Haha...
We're sorry, all poeple who want to play Mafia are currently playing other games. Please hold. Your call is very important to us. The next available player will be with you in 3 hours.

[Galzria]

Haha...
We're sorry, all poeple who want to play Mafia are currently playing other games. Please hold. Your call is very important to us. The next available player will be with you in 3 hours.

*Starts playing Kenny G. soundtrack*

[Grujah]

I want to clarify 2 more things:
What happends if 2 persons target to kill each other? (Vigilante and Witch for example?)
Also if A kills B and B kills C?

more general:
only 1 mafia actually does the actual kill, and mafia need to choose that killer, right?
So you need to block that specific mafia player to stop the kill, right?

[Galzria]

To your second question: yes. You must stop that member.

Not sure on your first, but I think they happen simultaneously, so they all die.

[jotheonah]

thinking about it... keep saying I'm just gonna spectate the next one.

[Robz888]

thinking about it... keep saying I'm just gonna spectate the next one.

You should play!

[Voltgloss]

I want to clarify 2 more things:
What happends if 2 persons target to kill each other? (Vigilante and Witch for example?)
Also if A kills B and B kills C?

Kills happen simultaneously.  Or, more accurately, getting killed during the night doesn't stop you from using your night ability.  So if, say, a Militiaman and a Witch target each other, they both die (or, if the Witch chose One-Shot Bulletproof, the Militiaman dies and the Witch's Bulletproof is used up).

more general:
only 1 mafia actually does the actual kill, and mafia need to choose that killer, right?
So you need to block that specific mafia player to stop the kill, right?

This is correct.  The killer could be any member of the Mafia.  Note, though, that if the Mafia Thief does the kill, he can't simultaneously use his roleblock ability.

[jotheonah]

So I'd like to play, but Glooble and I are RL acquaintances. We don't live in the same place but we talk often. We can make a pact not to talk about the game, but I totally understand if the existence of such a relationship would be troubling to other players, and I would have no hard feelings about sitting out.

[Voltgloss]

So I'd like to play, but Glooble and I are RL acquaintances. We don't live in the same place but we talk often. We can make a pact not to talk about the game, but I totally understand if the existence of such a relationship would be troubling to other players, and I would have no hard feelings about sitting out.

As moderator, I don't have a problem with this.  It doesn't seem any more of an issue than players' ability to PM each other through the forum.  We're all making an implicit pact not to use those PMs to talk to each other about the game (unless explicitly authorized by the game rules).  I don't see any reason such a pact can't extend to RL discussions as well.

Any signed-up players have an issue with this?

Assuming no objections come in, I anticipate sending role PMs out this evening (like around 11:00 p.m. or so EDT) and officially launching the game/starting the Day 1 clock at midnight. 

[Robz888]

I have no problem with it. We have to assume each other's best intentions.

[Insomniac]

I have no objections, as Volt points out we're all basically agreeing to not cheat by PMing except when allowed. You guys would make a strong mafia pair though as you could talk in real life.

VOTE: jotheonah

(Just kidding)

UNVOTE

[Galzria]

No problems. Would be glad to have you J.

[popsofctown]

So I'd like to play, but Glooble and I are RL acquaintances. We don't live in the same place but we talk often. We can make a pact not to talk about the game, but I totally understand if the existence of such a relationship would be troubling to other players, and I would have no hard feelings about sitting out.

Yeah, just don't talk about the game.  I've done it, it's not that hard.

[Grujah]

Can you publicly claim that you are Mason?
I mean, Masons should keep their society secret and stuff. 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

POTENTIAL 13th PLAYER:

I am intrigued with the notion of playing, but I've never played before, and have only read parts of M III. I'm not interested in reading any of M I or MII, as the proposed 2 week interval between deadlines would seem to guarantee that more reading will be required for M IV than any of the previous iterations.  Given all that, would I be welcome, and more importantly, would I be an asset to the game?

[Axxle]

@Voltgloss: Can I request that the mafia and potential masons be created a quicktopic for their discussion? This will allow people to look at their discussion after the game is over and might make it more interesting for after game discussion

[popsofctown]

Yes SFS.  You're one of my favorite f.ds posters.

[Axxle]

POTENTIAL 13th PLAYER:

I am intrigued with the notion of playing, but I've never played before, and have only read parts of M III. I'm not interested in reading any of M I or MII, as the proposed 2 week interval between deadlines would seem to guarantee that more reading will be required for M IV than any of the previous iterations.  Given all that, would I be welcome, and more importantly, would I be an asset to the game?

I think MI and MII both had 2 week deadlines (MII definitely did), but those were never reached.  And yes, we'd love to have you in the game.  Just have your build orders ready before the game starts

[popsofctown]

I changed my mind.  We're not letting you in unless you read MI and MII, read all of my councilroom logs for games in which I purchase a Gardens, and watch twelve Zerg fast expand replays.

Then you can play.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I have a fan club???

And how did you know I play Zerg?

[popsofctown]

You ask too many questions.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I changed my mind.  We're not letting you in unless you read MI and MII, read all of my councilroom logs for games in which I purchase a Gardens, and watch twelve Zerg fast expand replays.

Then you can play.

If I've counted correctly, you've bought a Gardens in 133 games.  109 would have been my limit.

What now?

Also, for what it's worth, if I play, I (sort of) promise not to use emoticons.  Maybe.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

You ask too many questions.

Ah, so I'm well suited to be an investigator.

[popsofctown]

You shouldn't be counting the losses.  Or acknowledging they exist.  It should go without saying.

Hey who upvoted me somewhere on the forums while I was at exactly 100 respect?

[Axxle]

You shouldn't be counting the losses.  Or acknowledging they exist.  It should go without saying.

Hey who upvoted me somewhere on the forums while I was at exactly 100 respect?

Don't worry, I'll find somewhere I upvoted you and remove it

edit: and done! :Evil face:

[Green Opal]

Hi! I haven't posted here much but I'm around these forums a lot, and have been enjoying watching the other Mafia games go through. Assuming someone more deserving doesn't want the space I'd like to play!

[Robz888]

It's up to Volt but I would be fine including all these people even in excess of 13, and then just adjusting number of roles and mafia accordingly. But whatever Volt wants is totally acceptable.

[popsofctown]

It's good to have an odd number of players.

[Green Opal]

Oops, I totally didn't read the post from someone else looking to play before mine. Feel free to ignore me, sorry!

[O]

It's good to have an odd number of players.

Or night-start with an even number?

[popsofctown]

Night starts kinda suck.  Though I shouldn't knock it before I try it, I guess.  Don't like the idea of them though..

Is Green Opal's avatar Young Witch art?  I don't own the card depicted but I'm curious.

[Voltgloss]

Well, looks like we had 13 with jotheonah, and now SFS and Green Opal make 15, which I think is still workable with my planned setup.  So, hey, more the merrier (and ending on an odd number)!  15 it is, with a Day start.  I will adjust the opening post accordingly. 

I will close sign-ups now and get PMs out once the roles are rando-assigned.  There will then be a delay of roughly 6-12 hours before game start, to let teams (Mafia, Masons) have some pre-game discussion, and to let a Witch (if there is one) choose their passive ability.  Day 1 will begin either tonight at midnight EDT or tomorrow morning some time between 6:00 and 8:00 EDT. 

[O]

Night starts kinda suck.  Though I shouldn't knock it before I try it, I guess.  Don't like the idea of them though..

Is Green Opal's avatar Young Witch art?  I don't own the card depicted but I'm curious.

I find night start far preferable to day start. There is concrete information to be had D1 of the voting, even if nobody's going to release it.

It does suck for the people killing N1, though.

[Green Opal]

Awesome, thanks! And that is indeed Young Witch art, shamelessly stolen from Grujah's excellent thread.

[popsofctown]

What set is Young Witch from?  I want one.

Even though my mom refuses to play games with curses (

[Grujah]

Cornucopia.

And not shamelessly stolen, its there to be used. 

[Voltgloss]

@Voltgloss: Can I request that the mafia and potential masons be created a quicktopic for their discussion? This will allow people to look at their discussion after the game is over and might make it more interesting for after game discussion

Done.

[Voltgloss]

Most of the players have confirmed receipt of their roles, but not all have yet.  Given the time zones at play, I don't anticipate receiving the last outstanding confirmations until the morning (EDT) at the earliest.  So the start of Day 1 will likely be some time around or before 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning (EDT), based on (1) when I receive the last confirmations and (2) when I wake up.    If I haven't received all confirmations by then I will post to that effect.  I don't want to start until all confirmations are in.

[Dsell]

Voltgloss, since you haven't specifically said this is locked until we start I assume this is ok?

I want to let everyone know up front that I will be on a weeklong vacation beginning June 15. It is very doubtful that I will have wifi during this time so I will be absent from the game for about a week.

Sorry about this everybody, I'm kinda bummed I'm missing time too (but not to go on vacation! Super excited about that!  ), but I got permission before the game. Anyway, don't envy the reading I'll have when I get back.

[Dsell]

Awkward parenthesis....can't....edit....

[Galzria]

To be fair, I didn't confirm my first two games, so I don't know that everyone will here.

[Axxle]

Game hasn't started yet, so you can edit, maybe?

[Axxle]

Oh wait, I guess since we have our roles then you can't.

[Axxle]

I propose the thread gets "LOCKED" till Day one starts.

[Voltgloss]

I'm actually only waiting on one person now - Tables - who hasn't logged into the forum since I sent PMs out, so I know for sure he hasn't received his yet.  As he is U.K. timezone, I expect to receive his confirmation in (what is for me) the wee hours of the morning, after which I'll start the Day officially.

Re: Dsell's vacation:  Given the importance of having all players around for the first lynch deadline, I am going to set an extended deadline for Day 1 - out to June 25 (i.e., three weeks) - so there is no possibility of the lynch deadline occurring while Dsell is out of pocket. 

If Day 1 ends while Dsell is away, there will be an extended Night 1 until Dsell returns.  I realize this slows things down, but I don't want to tip whether Dsell has a power role with a nighttime power. 

I will update the intro post accordingly.

Until then, THREAD LOCKED.

[Voltgloss]

Tables still hasn't logged into the forum to see that we're ready to begin.  Once he has and has confirmed his role assignment, I'll start this up.  Watch this space.

EDIT:  Tables has just confirmed.  Anticipating Day 1 start around noon EDT.

[Voltgloss]

Had a chance to get this underway earlier than anticipated and figured, hey, why wait further?  I'm as anxious as the rest of you to see the carnagefun begin. 

First, some mood music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTcxqhKedAU

Fifteen people stood gathered at the only exit from the Estate.  The solid iron portcullis blocking the gate mocked any attempt at egress without the proper key.  And that key, of course, was nowhere to be found.

Fifteen people thought back to the morning's breakfast Feast.  ("It's time for breakFEAST!" the Lord had jovially greeted them.  Happier times.)  They remembered the food taster carefully being served a sample of each dish provided, including the Lord's signature roast suckling pig.  They knew the food taster survived, whereupon all staff withdrew and the Lord and his guests tucked in.  Which meant that the poison - or acid - or whatever it was that had slain the Lord so, ah, emphatically - had to have been introduced by one of them.

Fifteen people had the same word on their minds.  "Mafia."  Only the Mafia had the resources, talent, and sheer psycopathy to start this campaign of death and terror.  And they would certainly wage it to the end.  The end, in this case, meaning the death or destruction of the Town's leaders.  Starting with the Lord... and ending with themselves.

Fifteen people considered the Town's only one chance.  That the "chosen" fifteen band together and, through reasoning, investigation, and perhaps a solid dose of luck, ferret out the Mafia hiding in their midst.  In a sense, the Mafia were trapped there just as much as the Townies.  The only way to hide would be in plain sight.

Fifteen people began to sweat, and the crucible's fire was just getting started.  Who would be lynched by the angry mob?  Who would die, silently (or not), in the night?  Who would be left standing when the portcullis was finally raised?  Who would prove the victor...

...WITHIN THESE ESTATE WALLS?

Day 1 Start

Not voting: Galzria, Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888, Captain_Frisk, O, Axxle, theorel, Glooble, popsofctown, Tables, Grujah, jotheonah, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Green Opal

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, June 25, 9:59 a.m. EDT 

[Captain_Frisk]

+1 For moderating, and for excellent theme music - but I'll go one step further and suggest an orchestral version:

#t=20s

[Grujah]

Ok, Help a noob out. I've never played forum mafia (only IRL), as we start on a day I have no idea what to base any suspicion on. Ok, there is between 2 and 5 scum, so we are between 13.333% and 30% likely to guess if we lynch randomly, but how do we improve these chances?

Is there any role worth claiming this early? It puts a big target on your head but as we might as well have a Doctor of some sort it might not be (that?) bad?

[Axxle]

Everyone should read this (and the second part): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12228

I only just found it the other day and found it very useful for getting out of the starting random mindset.

[Axxle]

Is there any role worth claiming this early? It puts a big target on your head but as we might as well have a Doctor of some sort it might not be (that?) bad?

You should not role claim early.  Role claim when you have valuable information to share and no one is listening to you without a role claim or if you're about to get lynched since there's no guarantee that we have a protective role to prevent nightkills.

[Grujah]

Thats .. a useful article, but it didn't help me much.
Ok, it tells you how to argue, and I got that, but what confuses me is this.. Day 1 "livelock" situation. I mean, I have no objective reason to campaign/argue against anyone, nor to candidate anyone in particular to lynch; but as all other players(town or scum pretending to be town) are in same (at least it seems to me) situation as I am - none really has anything in particular against anyone else, they cannot argue/campaign/propose lynching either.

I mean, who do I argue right now? Or what is my optimal move right now? I don't know why I would gain any "player points" for arguing/throwing out of the blue. Yes, I get it can get responses, and hence some info out, but I don't see a reason for somebody to answer a random accusation or..

Like, I ask something like.. Who do you think we should lynch? I somewhat understood for (very loosely) watching other mafias here that we should lynch on day1.


@Axxle 2nd post - that makes sense.

[Insomniac]

I suspect Robz! because mafia II carries over into mafia iv right! Also hes had like one whole hour to respond and has said nothing SCUMMY!

Just kidding.

Anyways I'm here!

[Axxle]

Right now you can't really argue with many people.  I've said something and Captain Frisk has said something and that's it.  You can poke at what we've said so far and see our responses and that's probably a good thing.  You're also doing correctly by asking questions from everyone, since that will generate discussion. (remember to ask good questions though).

[Grujah]

Well, you do seem less scummy for being helpful, but I don't believe I can assume much (if anything) solely on that. 

[jotheonah]

Let's make it our goal to be the first F.DS mafia town to lynch scum Day 1! I believe in us. We can do it.

[Galzria]

Let's make it our goal to be the first F.DS mafia town to lynch scum Day 1! I believe in us. We can do it.

Well, if you want to find scum so much today (admirable goal, who doesn't? (aside from scum)), what are your proposed methods? What are you going to look for? I think you would agree nobody is going to jump up and down screaming "Me! Pick me! I'm scum!". So, what should we look fir?

[Insomniac]

Let's make it our goal to be the first F.DS mafia town to lynch scum Day 1! I believe in us. We can do it.

Well, if you want to find scum so much today (admirable goal, who doesn't? (aside from scum)), what are your proposed methods? What are you going to look for? I think you would agree nobody is going to jump up and down screaming "Me! Pick me! I'm scum!". So, what should we look fir?

Even if they did that do we LEARN anything from lynching them except if they were lying? Someone screaming I'm scum is the least likely to be beneficial as they drew the attention to themselves.

[Galzria]

@Insomniac:

Are you suggesting that if somebody did scream "Pick me, I'm scum", that we should ignore them because they drew the suspicion on themselves? May I infer by that, that you believe the Mafia will be doing very little to act suspicious, and the best they can to appear town?

If that's true, will your suspicions be towards those who appear town?

[Insomniac]

@Insomniac:

Are you suggesting that if somebody did scream "Pick me, I'm scum", that we should ignore them because they drew the suspicion on themselves? May I infer by that, that you believe the Mafia will be doing very little to act suspicious, and the best they can to appear town?

If that's true, will your suspicions be towards those who appear town?

No. Im suggesting that after reading the article Axxle posted that if someone did scream IM SCUM. They should be ignored during the Day 1 "random voting stage" and we can come back to them later. By not lynching someone who screams IM SCUM. We can actually gain some information going into day 2.

For example in
Mafia I - There was soo much information going into day 2, who pushed for TINAS? who pushed for theory? Similarities?
Mafia II - Who pushed for Morgrim, who turned the tides toward him?

This is some information we hope to achieve, if there is reason to believe that the person who screamed scum is scum, yes lets vote for them, but lets do so after we get information otherwise we just end up back where we started and well I hate day 1 for that.

[jotheonah]

Well, in that case.

Ahem.

Pick me! I'm scum!

But seriously, Galz, I am at work and I shouldn't even BE posting right now. But rest assured that when I get home this evening I will put on my scumhunting hat and get to work.

[Captain_Frisk]

Let's make it our goal to be the first F.DS mafia town to lynch scum Day 1! I believe in us. We can do it.

Isn't this always the goal? 

I'm going to do my best from refraining from discussion of that ongoing game - but I suspect it may be unavoidable.

@Grujah

As for what to do at this point - I'm a n00b too.  We have a lot longer than the other game - 21 days?!?!?

Personally - I'm a believer in early voting as I believe it to foster the release of information via voting patterns and potential roleclaims that merely "suspecting someone" does not.  We can all sit here and suspect on someone until the cows come home - but they are not going to claim a role until they gets some votes on their head.

That roleclaim is information that can be investigated as the game goes onward, and the names of the people who voted for him is interesting as well.

Reading other mafia forums, I saw voting open immediately - with 0 suspicion, so I am willing to do this as well.  Naturally because it isn't based on real suspicion, I'm likely to unvote it in the future.

"O" is a believer in random voting.  Some people don't like this - and it results in an argument every time he does it.

RobZ seems to be a believer in talking and being sure before casting votes.

Some people think that posting friendly / unsubstantial / joke posts is a sign of Scum trying to look active to the town.  Other people say that posting posts that are "helpful" is too obviously town - and thus you must be scum.

Basically:


Is the person too quiet?  - They are flying under the radar and must be scum.
Is the person posting too much drivel?    - They are trying to look active without actually helping the town - totally scummy.
Is the person posting helpful things? - This is so obviously town - that it must be scum hiding
Is the person kindof hiding in the middle of the pack? - Scum doesn't want to stand out.

[Galzria]

@Grujah

I don't fully buy the "newb" argument anymore. There are previous games up to have read if you were really unsure of how day 1 can go, but even if you didn't feel like reading them (no problem, won't hold it against you), I've come to have too much respect for the intelligence of the members of this forum. I've read many of your posts elsewhere, and know that my thoughts on the general populace are no different individually for you.

With that said, your question regarding what roles should reveal strikes me as odd. All of the roles are in the first post to review. Which of those did you think might have reason to, and why?

[Axxle]

@Insomniac:

Are you suggesting that if somebody did scream "Pick me, I'm scum", that we should ignore them because they drew the suspicion on themselves? May I infer by that, that you believe the Mafia will be doing very little to act suspicious, and the best they can to appear town?

If that's true, will your suspicions be towards those who appear town?

No. Im suggesting that after reading the article Axxle posted that if someone did scream IM SCUM. They should be ignored during the Day 1 "random voting stage" and we can come back to them later.

Oh god no.  You missed the whole point of the article.  It says we need to hold everyone accountable for all their actions even in RVS.  This lets us get out of RVS much faster.

[Robz888]

Hello everyone.

I might be able to provoke an argument this way: I am actually fine with not killing anyone on Day 1 if I don't believe we have a good chance of actually killing a mafia member. (When I argued otherwise in Mafia II, I was a member of the mafia).

I'm not voting 'No Lynch,' and I'm not saying that should be the goal--but if we run out of time, and we have no reason to suspect anyone more than anybody else... it's better to have an additional townsperson alive on Day 2 rather than mislynch. In my view, at least.

[Tables]

I believe Axxle to be town.

Discuss.

[Robz888]

I believe Axxle to be town.

Discuss.

I have no reason to disbelieve you or your claim.

[Grujah]

If something I learned from BSG, I'd lynch a guy saying "I'm a scum" without breaking a sweat. (comparing it with Human playing a negative card into voting.. just because).

It's a terrible move, if you are town it makes no absolutely no sense to do it (maaaybe if somehow you are trying to protect a power role you know/are sure of and who is being endangered), it is a scummy move to sow discontent, as I said, wouldn't break a sweat.

(this was an answer to up to Insomniac's post, I'd have to read other posts later and respond).

[Insomniac]

@Insomniac:

Are you suggesting that if somebody did scream "Pick me, I'm scum", that we should ignore them because they drew the suspicion on themselves? May I infer by that, that you believe the Mafia will be doing very little to act suspicious, and the best they can to appear town?

If that's true, will your suspicions be towards those who appear town?

I'm not saying they aren't accountable for what they say at all.

I'm saying that if we all hammered jotheonah right now for saying "I'm scum" we wouldn't gain information. We'd see if he's town or mafia but we would have no real information on anyone else. So I'm hoping that we would ACTUALLY wait to hammer jotheonah or actually move to day 2 until we have information.

No. Im suggesting that after reading the article Axxle posted that if someone did scream IM SCUM. They should be ignored during the Day 1 "random voting stage" and we can come back to them later.

Oh god no.  You missed the whole point of the article.  It says we need to hold everyone accountable for all their actions even in RVS.  This lets us get out of RVS much faster.

[Insomniac]

@Insomniac:

Are you suggesting that if somebody did scream "Pick me, I'm scum", that we should ignore them because they drew the suspicion on themselves? May I infer by that, that you believe the Mafia will be doing very little to act suspicious, and the best they can to appear town?

If that's true, will your suspicions be towards those who appear town?

I'm not saying they aren't accountable for what they say at all.

I'm saying that if we all hammered jotheonah right now for saying "I'm scum" we wouldn't gain information. We'd see if he's town or mafia but we would have no real information on anyone else. So I'm hoping that we would ACTUALLY wait to hammer jotheonah or actually move to day 2 until we have information.

No. Im suggesting that after reading the article Axxle posted that if someone did scream IM SCUM. They should be ignored during the Day 1 "random voting stage" and we can come back to them later.

Oh god no.  You missed the whole point of the article.  It says we need to hold everyone accountable for all their actions even in RVS.  This lets us get out of RVS much faster.

Ok so for whatever reason my answer got removed.

I'm not saying they aren't accountable for that what Im saying is.

Say jotheonah jumps up and says "I'M SCUM!" which he did already jokingly. I'm not saying we shouldn't kill him, I'm also not saying he isn't responsible for his actions. What I AM saying is that if we lynch him right now we have no new information on day 2 except whether or not he was lying. We still have no better idea where the mafia is which is information I'd like to have going forward. I'm not even saying he shouldn't be lynched day 1 for his claim. But I AM suggesting that the longer day 1 is drawn out the better it is for the town.

[Robz888]

Say jotheonah jumps up and says "I'M SCUM!" which he did already jokingly. I'm not saying we shouldn't kill him, I'm also not saying he isn't responsible for his actions. What I AM saying is that if we lynch him right now we have no new information on day 2 except whether or not he was lying. We still have no better idea where the mafia is which is information I'd like to have going forward. I'm not even saying he shouldn't be lynched day 1 for his claim. But I AM suggesting that the longer day 1 is drawn out the better it is for the town.

Yeah, but we aren't just lynching to gain information. We are lynching to kill the mafia. Presumably we thought he was mafia, which was why we voted for him (in this imaginary scenario).

Personally, I'm starting to sour on people voting for any reason other than "I find it more likely than not that this person is mafia."

Here are some of the ones I don't like:

"Well, we have to kill SOMEONE."
"This person is being unhelpful."

The voting for somebody who has been too quiet is also okay, because it just isn't fair if the mafia could get away with not talking at all.

[Galzria]

@Insomniac

"It seems to me that the longer day 1 is drawn out, the more it helps the town"

Could you elaborate? I'm inclined to disagree to an extent. I don't think we should lynch quickly, but confusion is the tool Mafia use best, and the longer the have to burrow their holes, make friends, and divide, confuse, and separate townies the better it'll be for them. People can be blind to their beliefs, and it becomes increasingly easy for Mafia to exploit that.

[jotheonah]

Say jotheonah jumps up and says "I'M SCUM!" which he did already jokingly. I'm not saying we shouldn't kill him, I'm also not saying he isn't responsible for his actions. What I AM saying is that if we lynch him right now we have no new information on day 2 except whether or not he was lying. We still have no better idea where the mafia is which is information I'd like to have going forward. I'm not even saying he shouldn't be lynched day 1 for his claim. But I AM suggesting that the longer day 1 is drawn out the better it is for the town.

Yeah, but we aren't just lynching to gain information. We are lynching to kill the mafia. Presumably we thought he was mafia, which was why we voted for him (in this imaginary scenario).

Personally, I'm starting to sour on people voting for any reason other than "I find it more likely than not that this person is mafia."

Here are some of the ones I don't like:

"Well, we have to kill SOMEONE."
"This person is being unhelpful."

The voting for somebody who has been too quiet is also okay, because it just isn't fair if the mafia could get away with not talking at all.

This (the too quiet thing) is called a policy lynch, and it seems to be an accepted practice in the mafiascum community. Which is not to say it's good, but it does make a certain sense.

[Galzria]

Well, in that case.

Ahem.

Pick me! I'm scum!

But seriously, Galz, I am at work and I shouldn't even BE posting right now. But rest assured that when I get home this evening I will put on my scumhunting hat and get to work.

No problem J, just don't forget the question. I am curious.

[Tables]

The longer day 1 draws out, the more posts and information there is available to be analysed. The more posts there are, the easier it is to spot where the mafia might be, and to scumhunt effectively. We don't need to use all 3 weeks, of course, but ending the day early because we can is a sure-fire way to losing (Look at Mafia II: Morgrim ended the day early, which stopped me finishing my note taking before the end of the day, which after starting in the night had left me very suspicious of three people, two of which were mafia).

Robz: Voting for someone who's been too quiet is often a mafia move as much as anything. Mafia players rarely want to just sit there in silence, and are if anything more likely to get prods from their teammates to be more active. As a way to get them to talk, well, sure, but as a target for lynching... it's a bad move. It's essentially justifying a random vote.

[Insomniac]

@Galz. Sure. Say with no other information we lynch jotheonah right now for saying I'm scum. How do we have any information on day 2 that we didn't have in the RVS? Maybe we hit mafia maybe we didn't. (I'm suggesting that the next 8 posts contain nothing other than a vote for J).

Now suppose that day 1 goes longer and consists of 5 pages or something, now we have some REAL information, we have accusations defenses, bandwagons and voting order, who voted where, when and why.

You'll notice that in Mafia I one of my main reasons for suspecting Robz was that he was the penultimate on Morgrim, pushed hard for morgrim all day and set up Volt as a fall guy (with the permission thing)

@Robz: I'm aware we aren't just lynching for information, and I wouldn't vote for anyone who didnt seem scummy, but I do think we should try to have real information day 1 before just ending it.

@Tables: I have no reason to believe or disbelieve this claim yet.

@ALL: The main misconception is that I don't think someone screaming lynch me is important to target right away, if they're mafia thats fine but who are they working with and why did they throw themselves under a bus


Pre-Post Edit:Tables is effectively saying what I am. We don't need to use all 21 days but we dont need to fast close it either we need the information we can get to scumhunt.

[Grujah]

@G - it deosn't have much to do with me being smart or not; I cannot think of any game that I regularly play in which you can just jump in without playing before without a) being exceptionally intelligent b) being overinformed on everything about the game and c) having experience in similar games. I do have c), and I am not 'that' smart, I believe I'm lacking b) (both on general mafia stratagy and on M1/2/3 games).

As for me inquering about roleclaim, I later realised it might have been a mistake, as possibly targets me as a power role and I'm asking on how to proceed. My intention was to gain knowledge/insight about strategy/thinking behind power roles.
And to answer the question, I guess:
A one shot-cop/doc (maybe others too?) might want to claim, and if they survive and "prove" their role, they might throw mafia off the real cop/doc.
It was unclear to me is any role other than doc a good reason to claim as you might get protected (whether or not you are what you claim to be).


@Robz - that kinda makes sense, but doesn't make you any less scummy (most people would bring "you said differently in M2" anyway).

Gotta study now, I hope I can do that and not get too distracted with this.

@Tables - Axxle seems fine to me.
----
Also, stating this:

If something I learned from BSG, I'd lynch a guy saying "I'm a scum" without breaking a sweat. (comparing it with Human playing a negative card into voting.. just because).

Well, in that case.

Ahem.

Pick me! I'm scum!

But seriously, Galz, I am at work and I shouldn't even BE posting right now. But rest assured that when I get home this evening I will put on my scumhunting hat and get to work.

I feel inclined to vote j.
It's a stupid and irrational move, jokingly or not.

[Robz888]

Robz: Voting for someone who's been too quiet is often a mafia move as much as anything. Mafia players rarely want to just sit there in silence, and are if anything more likely to get prods from their teammates to be more active. As a way to get them to talk, well, sure, but as a target for lynching... it's a bad move. It's essentially justifying a random vote.

Oh, yes I agree. I was only saying that I know some people like to vote for people who are quiet so that they will talk, and then they take off the vote. I am okay with that, because I don't want people being incentivized to avoid suspicion by never speaking.

But as I've indicated, I don't do that, and will only vote for someone who I think is more likely mafia than not, and only if such a candidate emerges.

[Tables]

Also another very good reason against an early day end: It (often) prevents the victim having a chance to defend themselves. If they have an important role like the cop, doctor or vigilante, we do NOT want to lynch them, and if we're in the mentality of 'don't lynch until we're sure' they get more time to claim. In fact, in general I consider giving the final vote suspicious, if the general consensus of everyone isn't already that the person has no chance to defend themselves successfully, and there's no more information to gain from the day. A person being at -1 from lynch is far from implying that.

[Tables]

Also as there've been three replies now just saying 'yeah okay' to my Axxle post, I think that scheme has kinda failed... intention was simply to get people questioning 'why' and ideally at least one person to disagree/suspect me from it, which would kickstart us straight into discussion.

Oh well.

I don't have any suspects yet. Hardly surprising, isn't it?

[Robz888]

Yeah, this is essentially the phase of the day where we all stand by the street and wait for a car crash. At some point, someone will misinterpret someone else, they will react poorly, and we will be off to the races.

[Galzria]

The longer day 1 draws out, the more posts and information there is available to be analysed. The more posts there are, the easier it is to spot where the mafia might be, and to scumhunt effectively. We don't need to use all 3 weeks, of course, but ending the day early because we can is a sure-fire way to losing (Look at Mafia II: Morgrim ended the day early, which stopped me finishing my note taking before the end of the day, which after starting in the night had left me very suspicious of three people, two of which were mafia).

Like I mentioned before, I'm certainly in no hurry to lynch, but do you disagree that dragging on day 1 for the [/i]sole purpose[/i] of letting people talk more can be as detrimental (and often more) than helpful? The reasons I listed above are that they have longer to build allegiances, and they have longer to spread confusion by dividing the townand getting us to quarrel amongst ourselves. In a 9 player game, that effect was seen on a smaller scale, so want quite as apparent (though it was there). In a 13 player game, it was VERY apparent. And here we have 15 people. It's going to devolve into chaos the longer it has the opportunity to do so. Do you disagree?

[Green Opal]

Wow, posts accumulate in these quickly, that's something that's less apparent when browsing purely as an interested bystander...

Robz, while you were mafia in M2, you also both made a big point of your primary strategy being 'Don't lie about stuff if at all avoidable'. And just as a general case, choosing no lynch has to have some dramatic gains in information to be even potentially worthwhile, given the town is sacrificing people at night for it. But then that's basically the argument you made last time so you're already perfectly aware of it. Obviously, not voting with intent to lynch unless you're reasonably suspicious of someone is sensible preservational play, but how sure of yourself would you want to be of your suspicions before going ahead with anything?
So far? Nothing has looked suspicious to me. But then we're one and a half pages into day 1, so what else is new.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Insomniac

"It seems to me that the longer day 1 is drawn out, the more it helps the town"

Could you elaborate? I'm inclined to disagree to an extent. I don't think we should lynch quickly, but confusion is the tool Mafia use best, and the longer the have to burrow their holes, make friends, and divide, confuse, and separate townies the better it'll be for them. People can be blind to their beliefs, and it becomes increasingly easy for Mafia to exploit that.

I think this is essentially another flavor of the directed vs. random lynch debate.

The longer you discuss, the more information you obtain - but I tend to agree that you are less likely to lynch mafia because you are being directed by people with information.

On the other side, the faster you lynch, the better chance you have of being "correct" - because of less steering, but the less information you obtain via analysis of voting patterns and posting tendencies.

As for lynch vs. no lynch, I tend to favor lynching. 

Looking at Mafia I - lets say that that theory had not been lynched on Day 1.  Goober still would have died probably.  Would TINAS still have investigated Ozle?  Would they have been able to get all 4 town votes to lynch Ozle in the TINAS claim?  Getting all 4 votes is harder than getting 3 - as anyone who's ever tried to pick an activity for a group of people probably knows (board game to play on game night, movie to watch, where to go for dinner, etc.)

With more players - and an unknown amount of scum, perhaps it is more reasonable.  Lets say we're 15 with worst case 5 scum.... 8 required to lynch.  If we lynch town, and 1 dies overnight, we're left with 13 and 5 scum, all 7 out of 8 town required to lynch. (87.5%)

If we don't lynch, we're left with 14 and 5 scum, with 8 out of 9 required to lynch. (88.9% required to lynch).

About equivalent except for the getting 8 to agree vs. getting 7 to agree problem.  That said, you do have an extra body.

And now: because I have said I favor early voting (not necessarily early lynching)

VOTE: jotheonah - as he has already told us he is scum.

[Galzria]

Also another very good reason against an early day end: It (often) prevents the victim having a chance to defend themselves. If they have an important role like the cop, doctor or vigilante, we do NOT want to lynch them, and if we're in the mentality of 'don't lynch until we're sure' they get more time to claim. In fact, in general I consider giving the final vote suspicious, if the general consensus of everyone isn't already that the person has no chance to defend themselves successfully, and there's no more information to gain from the day. A person being at -1 from lynch is far from implying that.

I absolutely agree with your point about allowing any and all chance for a defense. I don't, however, find the ultimate vote as scummy. It COULD be a Mafia, but is a whole lot more dangerous place for them to put themselves.

Consider, with 8 to lynch, if a player already has 7, and there is an unvoted Mafia, there is a good chance the person will be lynched regardless. There must be some consensus that got the person to 7 to begin with, right? And if any vote slot will naturally "appear" scummy, it's the final one. I believe Mafia are MUCH more inclined not to vote there, and then use the innocent person who does as a target day 2. The penultimate vote is much more revealing to me. Thoughts?

[Axxle]

We're talking way too much theory and not enough game meat.  One of the things that the article I linked to tried to warn us about. Even more so considering what kind of forum we are on. We'll fall into the trap of voting for people who don't agree with our specific playstyle instead of who we think is scummy.

Thank you Tables for trying to create discussion but that kind of passive questioning doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere either.

jotheonah: It's these kind of silly jokes that get town killed.

I will come up with something to spur conversation in a sec, just want to get this out there.

[Green Opal]

@Galzria: Doesn't that logic keep recurring backwards somewhat though? If, according to your (perfectly reasonable) logic, the penultimate vote is the scummiest, then double-bluffing mafia would be interested in avoiding it, meaning it's more likely to be a town vote. And so on and so forth.
Of course, that leaves us in the position of not being able to extra any information from voter order which obviously isn't accurate either. So take any thoughts with a pinch of salt.

[Voltgloss]

Rules Clarification:  There are, at minimum, ELEVEN Town players.  The maximum total number of Anti-Town players is FOUR.  (If there are four Mafia players, there is no Witch.)

[Galzria]

@ C.F. - +1 for using the math I posted in M-III. Lynching simply IS mathematically better than no lynching. However, informed lynching IS better than random lynching, which is, I believe, the crux of Axxle's referenced article. So +1 to him too.

[Axxle]

Actually the easiest way is to turn Tables's question around:
Tables: You think I'm town. Why? Why didn't you explain your position before asking everyone else? Doing so it looks like you are just testing the water before explaining your own point of view.

[Grujah]

So, are we to discern +1 on posts as sign of people believe in someones towniness?
As I don't use that feature at all, nor look at it, might need to.

[Axxle]

So, are we to discern +1 on posts as sign of people believe in someones towniness?
As I don't use that feature at all, nor look at it, might need to.

I don't like using +1 because it's way to ambiguous to what you mean by it.  It could just mean "good point" or "I like the flavor" or something.  People need to explicitly state what they like about a post.

[Galzria]

So, are we to discern +1 on posts as sign of people believe in someones towniness?
As I don't use that feature at all, nor look at it, might need to.

Not at all. C.F. Could very easily be Mafia. I just think he made a good point, and I agree with him on it. I don't always upvote, but will if the inclination strikes me.

[Galzria]

So, are we to discern +1 on posts as sign of people believe in someones towniness?
As I don't use that feature at all, nor look at it, might need to.

I don't like using +1 because it's way to ambiguous to what you mean by it.  It could just mean "good point" or "I like the flavor" or something.  People need to explicitly state what they like about a post.

And if you look, I believe I did. But hopefully my last post clarified any remaining ambiguities. I think the math is sound, it was a well made point.

[Axxle]

So, are we to discern +1 on posts as sign of people believe in someones towniness?
As I don't use that feature at all, nor look at it, might need to.

Not at all. C.F. Could very easily be Mafia. I just think he made a good point, and I agree with him on it. I don't always upvote, but will if the inclination strikes me.

Inb4 Dos Equis meme.

It wasn't directed at you but at Grujah.

[Grujah]

What got me is whether it meant "+1, good post, here's why" or "+1, good post, here's why, you seem less scummy than before". Tha t is, in more general term, does making "good points" about game globally make you less scummy?


So, also, is that "CF could very easily" C.F. could be mafia just as easy as anyone or more easily than everyone else?

[Galzria]

 Also, Axxle, I disagree that we're talking "too much theory". I am explicitly trying to figure out what peoples voting patterns are going to be, and how they feel about letting the Mafia have more/less time to play around in the RVS. This can be very important to know if we approach an early vote before the deadline. Why are you so quick to write it off?

[Captain_Frisk]

@ C.F. - +1 for using the math I posted in M-III. Lynching simply IS mathematically better than no lynching. However, informed lynching IS better than random lynching, which is, I believe, the crux of Axxle's referenced article. So +1 to him too.

Yes - I wanted to give you credit, but I'm really trying hard to not mention that game here, although I look forward to discussing with you when it is over.

Regarding penultimate voting - i decided to check:

Mafia I: O casts penultimate vote for theory, ftl hammers - both town - although everyone in the universe thought O was mafia.  Mafia accomplished this with only 1 vote for theory (3rd vote)

Mafia II: RobZ casts penultimate vote, Morgrim self hammers.  Both mafia voted for lynch.  Not sure if we can draw conclusions here because of the early termination of voting.

[Grujah]

What is a RVS?
Nevermind, just googled it. Random Voting Stage, apparently.

[Galzria]

What got me is whether it meant "+1, good post, here's why" or "+1, good post, here's why, you seem less scummy than before". Tha t is, in more general term, does making "good points" about game globally make you less scummy?


So, also, is that "CF could very easily" C.F. could be mafia just as easy as anyone or more easily than everyone else?

Yes, yes he could. We all could very easily be Mafia. I'm not writing anybody but myself out of that category.

[jotheonah]

jotheonah: It's these kind of silly jokes that get town killed.

HUMOR IS ANTI-TOWN. ALL LEVITY MUST BE ELIMINATED.

[Insomniac]

What is a RVS?

Random voting stage, its part 2 of the article axxle linked. Its probably the more useful part to which he was referring you. (Part 1 is about how to argue)

[Grujah]

Oh, dang.
I accidently clicked edit instead of quote on my post.
 

[Grujah]

What is a RVS?

Random voting stage, its part 2 of the article axxle linked. Its probably the more useful part to which he was referring you. (Part 1 is about how to argue)

There is part two? 
Good thing you mentioned it, I totally missed it.

[popsofctown]

Warning - while you were reading 8 new replies have been posted.  You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted.  You may wish to review your post.

[Captain_Frisk]

Warning - while you were reading 8 new replies have been posted.  You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted.  You may wish to review your post.

This is a serious problem. By the time you post anything more than a one liner - the post that you're quoting is now off the page.  It's going to make re-reading this later very difficult.

[popsofctown]

If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.


No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days.  In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that. 

Vote: jotheonah

Humor is, actually antitown.  It's distracting and it's not analysis.  It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.

I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting.  Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.

Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.

Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down.  Then the player claims a power role or VT.

[Galzria]

@Galzria: Doesn't that logic keep recurring backwards somewhat though? If, according to your (perfectly reasonable) logic, the penultimate vote is the scummiest, then double-bluffing mafia would be interested in avoiding it, meaning it's more likely to be a town vote. And so on and so forth.
Of course, that leaves us in the position of not being able to extra any information from voter order which obviously isn't accurate either. So take any thoughts with a pinch of salt.

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you here:

Yes, you could get into that spiral... But at some point, looking at the players around you, you have to wonder how far a bluff might ACTUALLY go.

People suspect vote #1, as it's the least reasoned (often)
People suspect the final vote because it's the one to get the job done
People suspect everything in between as bandwagon

I would posit that perhaps, there really is nothing to be gained from vote order when considered as it's own entity. But combined with reasons given, past stances, and stated preference for day length (By the way, what are your thoughts on allowing the day to go on, for the sole purpose of getting more posts or there?), I believe there is much to be gained from vote order.

[Robz888]

Wow, posts accumulate in these quickly, that's something that's less apparent when browsing purely as an interested bystander...

Robz, while you were mafia in M2, you also both made a big point of your primary strategy being 'Don't lie about stuff if at all avoidable'. And just as a general case, choosing no lynch has to have some dramatic gains in information to be even potentially worthwhile, given the town is sacrificing people at night for it. But then that's basically the argument you made last time so you're already perfectly aware of it. Obviously, not voting with intent to lynch unless you're reasonably suspicious of someone is sensible preservational play, but how sure of yourself would you want to be of your suspicions before going ahead with anything?
So far? Nothing has looked suspicious to me. But then we're one and a half pages into day 1, so what else is new.

So, my big thing is--I would rather lose no one than lose a member of the town on Day 1. This is because after Night 1, we will have a kill to evaluate who could have done it, and potentially Role Townies learning things. On Day 1 we have absolutely nothing. That doesn't mean I'm aiming not to lynch, or I don't want to lynch--but I will not lynch for the sake of lynching.

How sure of my suspicions? To vote for someone in any round, I would have to be more certain than not that they were mafia, so 51% sure on them, I guess. If I am more than 50% sure on a number of different people, then I may vote for the one with the most votes/greatest likelihood of lynching, rather than the one I am most certain about.

[O]

If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.


No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days.  In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that. 

Vote: jotheonah

Humor is, actually antitown.  It's distracting and it's not analysis.  It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.

I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting.  Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.

Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.

Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down.  Then the player claims a power role or VT.

Really? Humor is anti-town D1? Hell, I'd have guessed analysis is anti-town D1.

So... you're saying I shouldn't claim Jester? (I still claim jester, BTW)

And guys.. how do I do random voting with 15 people. I don't want to give 4 people byes.

[O]

Wow, posts accumulate in these quickly, that's something that's less apparent when browsing purely as an interested bystander...

Robz, while you were mafia in M2, you also both made a big point of your primary strategy being 'Don't lie about stuff if at all avoidable'. And just as a general case, choosing no lynch has to have some dramatic gains in information to be even potentially worthwhile, given the town is sacrificing people at night for it. But then that's basically the argument you made last time so you're already perfectly aware of it. Obviously, not voting with intent to lynch unless you're reasonably suspicious of someone is sensible preservational play, but how sure of yourself would you want to be of your suspicions before going ahead with anything?
So far? Nothing has looked suspicious to me. But then we're one and a half pages into day 1, so what else is new.

So, my big thing is--I would rather lose no one than lose a member of the town on Day 1. This is because after Night 1, we will have a kill to evaluate who could have done it, and potentially Role Townies learning things. On Day 1 we have absolutely nothing. That doesn't mean I'm aiming not to lynch, or I don't want to lynch--but I will not lynch for the sake of lynching.

How sure of my suspicions? To vote for someone in any round, I would have to be more certain than not that they were mafia, so 51% sure on them, I guess. If I am more than 50% sure on a number of different people, then I may vote for the one with the most votes/greatest likelihood of lynching, rather than the one I am most certain about.

That's insane. If you had 33% surity, and the surity was directly translatable into actual odds a person is mafia, then if we random-voted with 33% odds the town would have great chances of winning (I'm pretty sure the math here is right).

[Robz888]

Wow, posts accumulate in these quickly, that's something that's less apparent when browsing purely as an interested bystander...

Robz, while you were mafia in M2, you also both made a big point of your primary strategy being 'Don't lie about stuff if at all avoidable'. And just as a general case, choosing no lynch has to have some dramatic gains in information to be even potentially worthwhile, given the town is sacrificing people at night for it. But then that's basically the argument you made last time so you're already perfectly aware of it. Obviously, not voting with intent to lynch unless you're reasonably suspicious of someone is sensible preservational play, but how sure of yourself would you want to be of your suspicions before going ahead with anything?
So far? Nothing has looked suspicious to me. But then we're one and a half pages into day 1, so what else is new.

So, my big thing is--I would rather lose no one than lose a member of the town on Day 1. This is because after Night 1, we will have a kill to evaluate who could have done it, and potentially Role Townies learning things. On Day 1 we have absolutely nothing. That doesn't mean I'm aiming not to lynch, or I don't want to lynch--but I will not lynch for the sake of lynching.

How sure of my suspicions? To vote for someone in any round, I would have to be more certain than not that they were mafia, so 51% sure on them, I guess. If I am more than 50% sure on a number of different people, then I may vote for the one with the most votes/greatest likelihood of lynching, rather than the one I am most certain about.

That's insane. If you had 33% surity, and the surity was directly translatable into actual odds a person is mafia, then if we random-voted with 33% odds the town would have great chances of winning (I'm pretty sure the math here is right).

Uh, I think you're right. I shouldn't have attached numbers. Forget the 51%. I just meant: more sure than not that they are mafia. So I could think Jo is more likely to be mafia than O, but I'm not going to vote for either of them if I still think Jo is more likely town than mafia. Okay?

[Axxle]

Also, Axxle, I disagree that we're talking "too much theory". I am explicitly trying to figure out what peoples voting patterns are going to be, and how they feel about letting the Mafia have more/less time to play around in the RVS. This can be very important to know if we approach an early vote before the deadline. Why are you so quick to write it off?

Asking people what their opinions of Lynch/No Lynch is fine.  Arguing your opinion is useless and distracting.

also: Vote: O for claiming Jester.  Why would any townie do that?

[Galzria]

O, since you can't be deterred in your random vote, set each person of 15 up to a 4 second time window, then post. That fulfills the 60 second time stamp, so will hit someone, and keeps to your theme.

[Captain_Frisk]

If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.


No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days.  In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that. 

Vote: jotheonah

Humor is, actually antitown.  It's distracting and it's not analysis.  It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.

I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting.  Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.

Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.

Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down.  Then the player claims a power role or VT.

Really? Humor is anti-town D1? Hell, I'd have guessed analysis is anti-town D1.

So... you're saying I shouldn't claim Jester? (I still claim jester, BTW)

And guys.. how do I do random voting with 15 people. I don't want to give 4 people byes.

Here we go again.

What I would say is pick something that you can not reliably predict.  Lets say: the share price of facebook - in cents at close today.  (Thats 2.5 hours from now I think?)

Take that number and "mod" it by 15.  If you aren't a computer programmer, that's the remainder that exists after you divide it by 15... this will give you a number between 0 and 14.

So if the final share price was 34.12, thats 3412 cents, which is 227 * 15 + 7 ... so the mod is 7 (http://www.calculatorpro.com/calculator/modulo-calculator/)

[jotheonah]

Is that ... 3 votes for me already? My aren't we a jumpy town. There's lots of folks who haven't even weighed in yet, probably because they're at work or asleep. So let's not give them too much catching up to do eh?

On my somewhat erratic posting style. I'm trying something different this game. Taking myself, and the whole thing just a little less seriously. I think it might actually end up being good for the town. It will certainly be good for my blood pressure. It's probably not the best place to look for scum Day 1, though. On Day 2, though, we can totes do the "Lynch J cause he's being weird thing." I will lead the charge.

Whoever said my play is antitown because it's distracting: Just stop being distracted by it. If my comments seem ignorable, ignore them. Everybody wins.

I will not be returning to this site for the next 4 1/2 hours for strictly RL reasons. I really mean it, I'm signing out and everything.

PPE: Oh man, O is playing? There goes my master plan of being O this game. Unless, O, do you wanna be me? Could be fun.

[O]

Also, Axxle, I disagree that we're talking "too much theory". I am explicitly trying to figure out what peoples voting patterns are going to be, and how they feel about letting the Mafia have more/less time to play around in the RVS. This can be very important to know if we approach an early vote before the deadline. Why are you so quick to write it off?

Asking people what their opinions of Lynch/No Lynch is fine.  Arguing your opinion is useless and distracting.

also: Vote: O for claiming Jester.  Why would any townie do that?

Axxle's already rousing suspicion. I did it Game 1 as a joke, Game III as a joke, and now Game IV as a joke. Why wasn't Axxle hard and fast on my case in Mafia I?

Oh wait, he was mafia in Mafia I, so maybe he's changing his strategy because he's town. Or maybe its one of those WIFOM analysis paradoxes.

[Captain_Frisk]

O, since you can't be deterred in your random vote, set each person of 15 up to a 4 second time window, then post. That fulfills the 60 second time stamp, so will hit someone, and keeps to your theme.

O - please don't do this - because people will suspect that you're gaming the system because you control the post time.  This is just like morgrim and writing notes down on a piece of paper - that only he can see.

[Galzria]

Also, Axxle, I disagree that we're talking "too much theory". I am explicitly trying to figure out what peoples voting patterns are going to be, and how they feel about letting the Mafia have more/less time to play around in the RVS. This can be very important to know if we approach an early vote before the deadline. Why are you so quick to write it off?

Asking people what their opinions of Lynch/No Lynch is fine.  Arguing your opinion is useless and distracting.

also: Vote: O for claiming Jester.  Why would any townie do that?

I'm not attempting to argue my point regarding it, I'm trying to find out others thoughts. You seem distinctly set on doing one thing, and writing off others attempts to do the same, so for now, VOTE: AXXLE.

[O]

If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.


No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days.  In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that. 

Vote: jotheonah

Humor is, actually antitown.  It's distracting and it's not analysis.  It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.

I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting.  Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.

Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.

Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down.  Then the player claims a power role or VT.

Really? Humor is anti-town D1? Hell, I'd have guessed analysis is anti-town D1.

So... you're saying I shouldn't claim Jester? (I still claim jester, BTW)

And guys.. how do I do random voting with 15 people. I don't want to give 4 people byes.

Here we go again.

What I would say is pick something that you can not reliably predict.  Lets say: the share price of facebook - in cents at close today.  (Thats 2.5 hours from now I think?)

Take that number and "mod" it by 15.  If you aren't a computer programmer, that's the remainder that exists after you divide it by 15... this will give you a number between 0 and 14.

So if the final share price was 34.12, thats 3412 cents, which is 227 * 15 + 7 ... so the mod is 7 (http://www.calculatorpro.com/calculator/modulo-calculator/)

I almost want to vote Captain Frisk for thinking that only computer-programmers know what mods are... 

But that's highly manipulatable since people can just say "ZOMG O LOOKED IT UP BEFOREHAND"

[O]

Also Galz I want it verifiable that I don't cheat. It's close enough when I use the seconds digit, 4 second timeframes are fify.

[O]

Iffy*

[Captain_Frisk]

I almost want to vote Captain Frisk for thinking that only computer-programmers know what mods are... 

But that's highly manipulatable since people can just say "ZOMG O LOOKED IT UP BEFOREHAND"

Sorry - mods are just something that I have never used in real life other than programming computers.

What i'm saying is - you announce your intent to vote randomly.  You announce your random methodology IN ADVANCE.

Then - when the event happens - you stick to whatever it was.

If you don't like facebook, then my suggestion for "# of justin bieber followers @ end of day" is also reasonable - but you'll have to wait longer.

[O]

Oh I see- I thought you were talking about the current price of FB stock or something similar.

I think I have an idea.

[Axxle]

O, a pure random vote is completely and utterly useless to town.  I don't see why you can't see that.  Mafia give clues even in Day 1 that you may be able to see Day 1.

I'm finding it annoying you keep saying you're Jester, it's useless and noisy and anti-town.  Is a joke a joke when it isn't funny?

Galzria: have you noticed all the numbers going around and OTHER people arguing what's right? People are arguing about theory whether you like it or not.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh I see- I thought you were talking about the current price of FB stock or something similar.

I think I have an idea.

HUMOR
Post a troll thread on BGG about the strength of Only Buying Money and count how many posts it receives in an hour?
/HUMOR

[Axxle]

Oh I see- I thought you were talking about the current price of FB stock or something similar.

I think I have an idea.

HUMOR
Post a troll thread on BGG about the strength of Only Buying Money and count how many posts it receives in an hour?
/HUMOR

+1 for teh lolz that I needed.

[O]

1 - Galzria
2 - Dsell
3 - Insomniac
4 - Robz888
5 - Captain_Frisk
6 - Axxle
7 - theorel
8 - Glooble
9 - popsofctown
10 - Tables
11 - Grujah
12 - jotheonah
13 - SwitchedFromStarcraft
(0)/14 - Green Opal

Last three digits mod 14 of the view count of This Video by 5 PM EST

[Galzria]

Also Galz I want it verifiable that I don't cheat. It's close enough when I use the seconds digit, 4 second timeframes are fify.

Fair enough. You know my stance on the whole issue to begin with, so not much reason to get into it. Whichever method you decide to use is fine with me then. I'll be (mostly) ignoring it anyway. Don't worry, no cheating accusations (unless my name comes out. ).

[Grujah]

Well, if it is allowed..
I can encrypt all names with same password on
http://infoencrypt.com/
you choose one of the encrypted names and post it.
I reveal the password, and you see who to vote for.

[Galzria]

To further my case on Axxle, he's argued with me for simply asking questions, he's gone after J for posting light, ignorable humor (ignorable if it bothers you), and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

He's starting arguments that go nowhere and bring no conclusions about being scum. I liked his question to TABLES, but everything else has had a distinctly unhelpful flavor to me.

[Voltgloss]

Fifteen people calmly stood behind the locked portcullis, discussing their options and the best avenues by which they could find the Mafia among them.

Fifteen minutes later there were three sets of bruised knuckles, two tender jaws, a black eye, and six separate insults ranging all the way from "You'd fill a Moat with salt water and then stock it with giant slugs" up to the dreaded "Your idea of a good 5-2 opening is Duchy-Estate."

And the day was, yet, oh so very young.

Vote Count 1-1

jotheonah (2) - Captain_Frisk, popsofctown
O (1) - Axxle
Axxle (1) - Galzria

Not Voting (11) - Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888, O, theorel, Glooble, Tables, Grujah, jotheonah, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Green Opal

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[Green Opal]

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.

What do you mean by a woodwork lurker? Not a loaded question, just don't know the term.

I would posit that perhaps, there really is nothing to be gained from vote order when considered as it's own entity. But combined with reasons given, past stances, and stated preference for day length (By the way, what are your thoughts on allowing the day to go on, for the sole purpose of getting more posts or there?), I believe there is much to be gained from vote order.

Absolutely! I wasn't trying to say that there's nothing to be gained from it, as that would be inaccurate. Having everything written publicly here should at least have any Mafia carefully consider when they place their votes, which if nothing else lowers the odds of someone getting hammered when we're not expecting it...

To answer your question, I'm of the opinion that at some point, people are just likely to end up reiterating points already made if a day drags on a while (thinking the battle between TINAS and Ozle in day 2 of M1, which seemed to end up with both people asking each other the same questions over and over) without any really useful information/analysis coming out, so would lean towards people trying to bring the day to a close when they have a reasoned opinion/decision. How long that takes is certainly going to depend though - at the moment everyone seems genuinely interested in gathering information, though I haven't really been attaching specific viewpoints to people completely. Yet.

More thoughts coming up on the current voting.

[Captain_Frisk]

Back on topic though, I think theory discussion is perfectly acceptable.  If people agree - then it gives you a common set of guidelines to measure peoples deviations from.

For example - If the consensus is that you should roleclaim @ LynchVotes - 1, and someone doesn't role claim, then they are either crazy like a fox (TINAS), or they are not a power role.

For example: If you explicitly know something to be bad play, and someone does it anyway - then that's information as well.  Either the person isn't thinking, is crazy, or is mafia.

The best example of this I can think would be Mafia II.  Going into day 3 - there are 3 town and 2 mafia.  If any member of the town misvotes - then the game is over, because the  two mafia can quick hammer him.  Sure enough, when

Thus - I was 90% sure that RobZ was Mafia when he opened the voting on Day 3.  A vanila townie wouldn't have enough information to put the game out there on a 50/50 shot at being right - when no hammer occurred over the remaining time, I was 100% sure.

[Captain_Frisk]

1 - Galzria
2 - Dsell
3 - Insomniac
4 - Robz888
5 - Captain_Frisk
6 - Axxle
7 - theorel
8 - Glooble
9 - popsofctown
10 - Tables
11 - Grujah
12 - jotheonah
13 - SwitchedFromStarcraft
(0)/14 - Green Opal

Last three digits mod 14 of the view count of This Video by 5 PM EST

Damnit O - this is a bad idea too.  There's no way for ANYONE else to know what the viewcount @ 5pm is... especially since the # is always moving.  You'll be able to claim anything you want - with no way for us to know.  You might as well pick a name from a hat - another unverifiable randomization process.

Anyhow - you've already accomplished the discussion - why don't you just skip the random voting and accuse someone?

[Grujah]

Youtube doesn't update viewcount in real-time but on some regular interval. So if anyone checks near 5PM, it 'should' be ok. Encypting, however, works always.

is it just me or forum is now extra-slow? I'm posting this from lynx (text-based browser) as a result.

[Robz888]

Not Voting (11) - Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888, O, theorel, Glooble, Tables, Grujah, jotheonah, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Green Opal

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch[/color]

I somehow forgot that there were a billion other people playing. I would really to hear from Thoerel and Glooble and SFS some point soon, as they are new to Forum Mafia. And Dsell has not checked in yet, as far as I know (though he isn't new).

Oh, hey Frisk! You're wrong:

The best example of this I can think would be Mafia II.  Going into day 3 - there are 3 town and 2 mafia.  If any member of the town misvotes - then the game is over, because the  two mafia can quick hammer him.  Sure enough, when

Thus - I was 90% sure that RobZ was Mafia when he opened the voting on Day 3.  A vanila townie wouldn't have enough information to put the game out there on a 50/50 shot at being right - when no hammer occurred over the remaining time, I was 100% sure.

I didn't do that. Insomniac did that. He voted for me right off the bat on Day 3.

[Insomniac]

Back on topic though, I think theory discussion is perfectly acceptable.  If people agree - then it gives you a common set of guidelines to measure peoples deviations from.

For example - If the consensus is that you should roleclaim @ LynchVotes - 1, and someone doesn't role claim, then they are either crazy like a fox (TINAS), or they are not a power role.

For example: If you explicitly know something to be bad play, and someone does it anyway - then that's information as well.  Either the person isn't thinking, is crazy, or is mafia.

The best example of this I can think would be Mafia II.  Going into day 3 - there are 3 town and 2 mafia.  If any member of the town misvotes - then the game is over, because the  two mafia can quick hammer him.  Sure enough, when

Thus - I was 90% sure that RobZ was Mafia when he opened the voting on Day 3.  A vanila townie wouldn't have enough information to put the game out there on a 50/50 shot at being right - when no hammer occurred over the remaining time, I was 100% sure.

Actually I opened the voting on day 3, but withdrew when Robz roleclaimed.

[O]

1 - Galzria
2 - Dsell
3 - Insomniac
4 - Robz888
5 - Captain_Frisk
6 - Axxle
7 - theorel
8 - Glooble
9 - popsofctown
10 - Tables
11 - Grujah
12 - jotheonah
13 - SwitchedFromStarcraft
(0)/14 - Green Opal

Last three digits mod 14 of the view count of This Video by 5 PM EST

Damnit O - this is a bad idea too.  There's no way for ANYONE else to know what the viewcount @ 5pm is... especially since the # is always moving.  You'll be able to claim anything you want - with no way for us to know.  You might as well pick a name from a hat - another unverifiable randomization process.

Anyhow - you've already accomplished the discussion - why don't you just skip the random voting and accuse someone?

To be honest, I just wanted to rickroll someone (though I could always Screencap that statistic).

And I've found Axxle very erratic this game so far. i feel like he's trying to be me, which annoys me. Only I get to do that 

[Galzria]

Forums are acting wonky for me at the moment. Apologies if this already posted:

 To further my case on Axxle, he's argued with me for simply asking questions, he's gone after J for posting light, ignorable humor (ignorable if it bothers you), and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

He's starting arguments that go nowhere and bring no conclusions about being scum. I liked his question to TABLES, but everything else has had a distinctly unhelpful flavor to me. I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts on this.

[Insomniac]

Forums are acting wonky for me at the moment. Apologies if this already posted:

 To further my case on Axxle, he's argued with me for simply asking questions, he's gone after J for posting light, ignorable humor (ignorable if it bothers you), and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

He's starting arguments that go nowhere and bring no conclusions about being scum. I liked his question to TABLES, but everything else has had a distinctly unhelpful flavor to me. I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts on this.

I currently don't suspect Axxle because he's drawn a lot of attention to himself. Which he didn't do in M1 when he was scum

[popsofctown]

"Come out of the woodwork" means to come out of relative obscurity.  The origin of the English idiom probably originated when people could buy perfectly good furniture or houses, but once they own it termite came out of the woodwork.
"Lurker" is someone who reads a forum frequently reads a forum but almost never posts.

I combined the terms.

[Captain_Frisk]

Youtube doesn't update viewcount in real-time but on some regular interval. So if anyone checks near 5PM, it 'should' be ok. Encypting, however, works always.

is it just me or forum is now extra-slow? I'm posting this from lynx (text-based browser) as a result.

Superslow- I think Mafia IV is just too awesome for this poor server.

Oops - thank goodness for update posts preview.  I must have missed a few pages because I wasn't following closely.  This is what I was about to write:

@Robz
Really?  As far as I can tell - you opened the voting:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44303#msg44303
May 30, 2012, 03:15:33 pm

Then there was the votecount
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44315#msg44315

Then insomniac voted: May 31, 2012, 12:27:06 pm
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44600#msg44600

-- end of WRONG post

Sorry for the confusion!

[Axxle]

To further my case on Axxle, he's argued with me for simply asking questions, he's gone after J for posting light, ignorable humor (ignorable if it bothers you), and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

He's starting arguments that go nowhere and bring no conclusions about being scum. I liked his question to TABLES, but everything else has had a distinctly unhelpful flavor to me.

What? I never attacked you for asking questions.  I'm telling everyone to stop getting into arguments about theory.  You're the one who took it personally.  Did you just ignore this post?:

Also, Axxle, I disagree that we're talking "too much theory". I am explicitly trying to figure out what peoples voting patterns are going to be, and how they feel about letting the Mafia have more/less time to play around in the RVS. This can be very important to know if we approach an early vote before the deadline. Why are you so quick to write it off?

Asking people what their opinions of Lynch/No Lynch is fine.  Arguing your opinion is useless and distracting.

J's joke was anti-town because of how noisy it was.  And a lot of people seem to agree with that seeing as he has multiple votes on him.

I'll give you O.  But I really don't remember him being that random in Mafia I.  Maybe I just overlooked it because TINAS stole that show but I didn't see it.  Maybe I have to reread.

[Insomniac]

Youtube doesn't update viewcount in real-time but on some regular interval. So if anyone checks near 5PM, it 'should' be ok. Encypting, however, works always.

is it just me or forum is now extra-slow? I'm posting this from lynx (text-based browser) as a result.

Superslow- I think Mafia IV is just too awesome for this poor server.

Oops - thank goodness for update posts preview.  I must have missed a few pages because I wasn't following closely.  This is what I was about to write:

@Robz
Really?  As far as I can tell - you opened the voting:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44303#msg44303
May 30, 2012, 03:15:33 pm

Then there was the votecount
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44315#msg44315

Then insomniac voted: May 31, 2012, 12:27:06 pm
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2549.msg44600#msg44600

-- end of WRONG post

Sorry for the confusion!

I opened for him on page 22, literally the first post on day 3

[O]

and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

You know, I think I've learned my lesson on piledriving Galzria...

[Captain_Frisk]

and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

You know, I think I've learned my lesson on piledriving Galzria...

O (and other players in M3) - Can we not talk about this game?  It's night time and we're all asleep.

[Axxle]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

[O]

and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

You know, I think I've learned my lesson on piledriving Galzria...

O (and other players in M3) - Can we not talk about this game?  It's night time and we're all asleep.

Sorry about that.

[Insomniac]

and O for being O. The last of which if anybody had a right to do, it would be me!

You know, I think I've learned my lesson on piledriving Galzria...

O (and other players in M3) - Can we not talk about this game?  It's night time and we're all asleep.

Sorry about that.

In addition to players not being allowed to talk about M3, I CAN'T even respond to anyone who says ANYTHING about m3 in a post because of my moderating M3.

[O]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

[Axxle]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

I feel like it was my fault not killing TINAS.  Not anyone else's.

[Dsell]

Wowowow this is going to end up being as long as Mafia III, isn't it? 

First of all a big thanks to Voltgloss for changing the timeframes just to accommodate me! I totally wasn't expecting that and appreciate it.

I've been reading through for a while (the forum was super slow for me for a while too) and my thoughts so far:

Well, in that case.

Ahem.

Pick me! I'm scum!

But seriously, Galz, I am at work and I shouldn't even BE posting right now. But rest assured that when I get home this evening I will put on my scumhunting hat and get to work.

I don't like this. I don't think it's necessarily "scummy" but I think it's silly statements like this that can really get people in trouble. There are new people playing, we don't all know each others' playstyle, it's just risky. And like...why would you even say that? I don't agree that all humor is anti-town (I mean ultimately we're here to have fun, right?) but that kind of self-deprecating humor is just not smart play

In terms of the lynch vs no lynch on day 1 argument, I already stated what I think in Mafia III:

Positive:
Real information
Extra inferred information (who voted, when, etc)
Chance of lynching mafia

Negative:
Chance of lynching town (possibly higher chance than lynching mafia)
I'm not sure??

Can anyone add to that list?

By no means a complete list, still asking for any good additions.

Pre-post edit: 7 new replies. Oh dear.

[Galzria]

UNVOTE

Axxle, I'm still suspicious of how jumpy you are, but I was just fishing for responses from the other active members. I'm happy with what I got.

Suspicions: Axxle, slightly. None others atm.

[Captain_Frisk]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

I have to say - its pretty impressive to be claiming success @ lynching town - just because the alternative was worse.

[Dsell]

Aside from Jo, which was just ugh, I haven't really seen anything that has given me any real red flags. By now I expect there will be some random accusations and lots of voting and unvoting (read: already happening) and eventually we will get somewhere. I like having extra time, to comment on that debate. I don't want to try to lynch too early. In my EXPERIENCE (*cough*MIII*cough*) ahem... being on a deadline got us all to vote but it made things really heated and desperate. I'd rather have too much time than too little. Don't have to use it all.

[popsofctown]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

I have to say - its pretty impressive to be claiming success @ lynching town - just because the alternative was worse.

No, that's the sick part, he can.  Cop is such an overpowered role, it was worth him damaging day game just to save it (presuming he did)
I hate cops.

[Robz888]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

I have to say - its pretty impressive to be claiming success @ lynching town - just because the alternative was worse.

No, that's the sick part, he can.  Cop is such an overpowered role, it was worth him damaging day game just to save it (presuming he did)
I hate cops.

I don't like the Cop role when I play IRL. But here, it's so much harder to read people that an investigative role is almost essential.

[Dsell]

Going back and looking at Axxle, I'm not sure that I see him being as suspicious as some people claim? It's hard to tell, the only other game I've seen him in...he was mafia. He does seem a little gruff and abrasive, but perhaps he just tends to be suspicious of people. I DO think it's silly to jump on people for trying to talk theory. Some theory seems reasonable...what ELSE do we have to talk about?

[O]

Wowowow this is going to end up being as long as Mafia III, isn't it? 

First of all a big thanks to Voltgloss for changing the timeframes just to accommodate me! I totally wasn't expecting that and appreciate it.

I've been reading through for a while (the forum was super slow for me for a while too) and my thoughts so far:

Well, in that case.

Ahem.

Pick me! I'm scum!

But seriously, Galz, I am at work and I shouldn't even BE posting right now. But rest assured that when I get home this evening I will put on my scumhunting hat and get to work.

I don't like this. I don't think it's necessarily "scummy" but I think it's silly statements like this that can really get people in trouble. There are new people playing, we don't all know each others' playstyle, it's just risky. And like...why would you even say that? I don't agree that all humor is anti-town (I mean ultimately we're here to have fun, right?) but that kind of self-deprecating humor is just not smart play

In terms of the lynch vs no lynch on day 1 argument, I already stated what I think in Mafia III:

Positive:
Real information
Extra inferred information (who voted, when, etc)
Chance of lynching mafia

Negative:
Chance of lynching town (possibly higher chance than lynching mafia)
I'm not sure??

Can anyone add to that list?

By no means a complete list, still asking for any good additions.

Pre-post edit: 7 new replies. Oh dear.

Why are you attacking J for those "scummy" posts but not me?

[popsofctown]

Unvote

Well you were right.  Looking at Mafia I, O is just unhelpful Day 1 town, and miraculously changes Day 2 into good town.

If by "unhelpful" you mean "getting a VT lynched instead of Town Cop, which was unhelpful to me since I was mafia", then yes, very unhelpful.

I have to say - its pretty impressive to be claiming success @ lynching town - just because the alternative was worse.

No, that's the sick part, he can.  Cop is such an overpowered role, it was worth him damaging day game just to save it (presuming he did)
I hate cops.

I don't like the Cop role when I play IRL. But here, it's so much harder to read people that an investigative role is almost essential.

I'm going to take deep calm breaths and not respond because this game needs to stay on track.

[Dsell]

Why are you attacking J for those "scummy" posts but not me?

Ha! You're right, I was going to mention your Jester claim, but I figured it was obvious that it was a joke and not worth drawing attention to. Jester is confirmed not to be in the game whereas mafia is in every game. And I specifically said that it wasn't "scummy" (necessarily).

[Dsell]

Why are you attacking J for those "scummy" posts but not me?

Ha! You're right, I was going to mention your Jester claim, but I figured it was obvious that it was a joke and not worth drawing attention to. Jester is confirmed not to be in the game whereas mafia is in every game. And I specifically said that it wasn't "scummy" (necessarily).

*Specifically said that jotheonah's joke mafia claim wasn't scummy. I think that was clear enough.

[Insomniac]

I saw switched from starcraft reading this board but they haven't posted anything yet so

Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft

Why you lurkin?

[Captain_Frisk]

I saw switched from starcraft reading this board but they haven't posted anything yet so

Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft

Why you lurkin?

You're thinking that he's mafia and too afraid to post?

[Insomniac]

I saw switched from starcraft reading this board but they haven't posted anything yet so

Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft

Why you lurkin?

You're thinking that he's mafia and too afraid to post?

Possible, doubtful though but I'd like to provoke a response

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote Insomniac

[Dsell]

unvote, vote Insomniac

Wait, why? No explanation at all?

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm going to take deep calm breaths and not respond because this game needs to stay on track.

Any information is good information - A theory discussion of the relative power of roles is interesting to me.

I was actually reading up on this last night... a discussion of the C9 setup that you used (random selection of 2 roles from (Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Vanilla)) - which I guess was adopted because the standard variant (Cop + Doctor) had a dominant strategy (Cop claims - hidden Doctor protects)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2216

With this setup - it looks like the town is at a disadvantage - although that is a small sample size.

Also - for those interested - and I can't find the stats now, but someone claimed that in a study of newb games, the town successfully lynched scum just under 20% of the time... close to (but just under) the expected results of 22% if voting randomly.

[Captain_Frisk]

unvote, vote Insomniac

Wait, why? No explanation at all?

He's pops... you know... from ctown?  He doesn't need any explanation.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oops - posted too fast.  Pops, I'm also interested in why you're voting - whether it be random, fun, don't like his name etc.

[Insomniac]

unvote, vote Insomniac

My guess is because I voted for SFS who I said it's possible is mafia but doubtful. Either that or we have a mafia pair already!

[Dsell]

Oops - posted too fast.  Pops, I'm also interested in why you're voting - whether it be random, fun, don't like his name etc.

+1 because you're not allowed to edit this.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oops - posted too fast.  Pops, I'm also interested in why you're voting - whether it be random, fun, don't like his name etc.

+1 because you're not allowed to edit this.

I want to so bad!

[Dsell]

What?? Why did that happen? Umm anyway moving on now...

[Galzria]

Oops - posted too fast.  Pops, I'm also interested in why you're voting - whether it be random, fun, don't like his name etc.

Haha, boy C.F. You botched that one up pretty well.

For the record Pops, I'm interested to hear why as well.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oops - posted too fast.  Pops, I'm also interested in why you're voting - whether it be random, fun, don't like his name etc.

Haha, boy C.F. You botched that one up pretty well.

For the record Pops, I'm interested to hear why as well.

Ha - you did it too!

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh - I've messed up the whole board.

[Dsell]

Oh btw, I think it's ironic that pops hates cops. And seriously, what's up with quotes right now? And pops, please give us reason! I guessed the same as insomniac but would love to hear from the source. You have a lot more experience than most of us so I want to know what is going on in your head with your voting.

[Galzria]

*Ahem* Wow, good job C.F. That was worth some chuckles. +1. Still not sure how you managed that. No more quoting you!

[popsofctown]

You'll get nothing and like it.

[Insomniac]

*Ahem* Wow, good job C.F. That was worth some chuckles. +1. Still not sure how you managed that. No more quoting you!

His /quote tag was broken so it never left the quote, thusly whenever you quote is quote there is an unfinished quote tag

[Galzria]

You'll get nothing and like it.

VOTE: POPSOFCTOWN for the above reason.

[Captain_Frisk]

You'll get nothing and like it.

/With appropriate quotation this time.

This strikes me as intentionally antagonistic.  Did you learn something from TINAS and O in M1?  I'm curious to see the town reaction to this...

[O]

I just returned and wat is this.


Pops, I recommend not playing Mafiascum style on F.DS. What may work among a bunch of experts with a bunch of conventions and established behavior may not work here.

[O]

You'll get nothing and like it.

/With appropriate quotation this time.

This strikes me as intentionally antagonistic.  Did you learn something from TINAS and O in M1?  I'm curious to see the town reaction to this...

You'll get nothing and like it.

VOTE: POPSOFCTOWN for the above reason.

I loled.

[popsofctown]

Oh let me have some fun.  It's my favorite retort.

Insomniac is not suspicious because he expressed suspicion, it's the lack thereof.  He mentioned the unlikelihood that his target was scum.  That unlikelihood is already implied, and he wasn't prompted by anything like "to what extent do you feel SFS is likely scum", someone just asked to follow his thought process.  He over reacted and tried to shirk responsibility for his vote.

I'm not always good at explaining what I mean, but that is what I find somewhat scummy.  But not as scummy as scums that are scummier, but less scummy than townies that are not scummy by comparison. /hinterlands

[O]

I'm not always good at explaining what I mean, but that is what I find somewhat scummy.  But not as scummy as scums that are scummier, but less scummy than townies that are not scummy by comparison. /hinterlands

BRB, going to get some fresh air after reading that.

[popsofctown]

Voting without reasoning is not mafiascum style mafia.  It's troll style mafia, and after I amused myself with reactions (and gained information from guesses at my motivation) I was going to explain whether asked or not.

[O]

Voting without reasoning is not mafiascum style mafia.  It's troll style mafia, and after I amused myself with reactions (and gained information from guesses at my motivation) I was going to explain whether asked or not.

IMO troll style mafia is 100000X better in IRL games.

...That being said, you're on my turf.

[Dsell]

You'll get nothing and like it.

I feel like the game is running away from me...what does this mean? I KNOW you must have something in mind. I'll get nothing from what? Why would I like that? I guess I echo C_F but I feel like this is not so much meant to be antagonistic as cryptic? Maybe?

I don't suppose asking for you to explain again nicely is going to get a straighter answer?

Pre-post edit: I guess you explained so this is now irrelevant. Still gonna post it. Is your vote serious or are you just trying to counter his prodding with more prodding? I would like to hear from SFS too but I'm not gonna vote now.

[Galzria]

And I can pretty much unvote since it was done just for lol's, and really without good reason.

[Dsell]

Insomniac is not suspicious because he expressed suspicion, it's the lack thereof.  He mentioned the unlikelihood that his target was scum.

But the same can be said of your vote for him. But I guess I've been trolled anyway, so... /beingtrolled

[Captain_Frisk]

You'll get nothing and like it.

I feel like the game is running away from me...what does this mean? I KNOW you must have something in mind. I'll get nothing from what? Why would I like that? I guess I echo C_F but I feel like this is not so much meant to be antagonistic as cryptic? Maybe?

I have a suspicion that with 8 votes required, 21 real life days to go, and most of the active posters here being on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th games, that there's just alot of goofing off before its late enough that we can stop working without looking like slackers.

Pops' "get nothing and like it" actually made me lol.  I'm not reading too much into anything that happens here yet.  Reading into day 1 shenanigans almost got TINAS lynched, did get theory lynched, and had the entire spectating universe think that O was also Mafia.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Insomniac - Your timing is impeccable. Not lurking, just getting caught up.  Played golf this morning and this is the first time I've been able to read since confirming my role last night.  6 new pages, wow. Someone expressed concern that this would be longer than MIII, I suspect it will be very long indeed with 15 of us.

Voltgloss - Thanks for moderating this, with all you have going on.

Axxle - Thanks for the link to the two articles.  I found the second article to be particularly important.

Couple of housekeeping things before I begin the substantive part of my post:
1) I am a newbie, having never played this game at all in any format.
2) I have created a temporary signature to define my abbreviations for people's names. If your name is not abbreviated in my signature, I will do my best to use it in its entirety.  I did this because someone in an earlier post used the salutation "@G", and there are 4 names in this game that start with "G".
3) I'm not going to read MI or MII (with the exception of checking the two starting posts, to verify the absence of the players in my first question below), and I will likely abandon my reading of MIII, which is currently in Night 1.
4) My gender is male, if it helps anyone avoid awkward choices of pronoun.
5) I am on EDT in the US, if that is useful info for anyone in evaluating posting patterns. (God, I'm such a data whore).

Now, on to substance:

@Theo, Gloob, Green:  You were not in MI or MII or MIII.  Have you played Forum Mafia before?  Have you played IRL?

After reading the second article that Axxle suggested, I am of the opinion that random voting on Day 1 is anti-town.  Day 1 is indeed a time for to be as non random as possible.  So, I'll be bold:

VOTE: O, because he will be voting randomly.

Pre-post addendum:  OMG, while I'm wrestling with this, another full page?  I started this literally one minute after #211.

[Galzria]

Welcome to Trolls! Your role is legitimate poster! Unfortunately for you, the trolls like to eat legitimate posters for breakfast, so in order to stay alive, you're going to have to troll the trolls into thinking you're a troll. But watchout, because there might be other legitimate  posters out there trying to troll you! You win if you can troll enough trolls into eating trolls, such that all trolls are dead and vanquished!

[Captain_Frisk]

Welcome to Trolls! Your role is legitimate poster! Unfortunately for you, the trolls like to eat legitimate posters for breakfast, so in order to stay alive, you're going to have to troll the trolls into thinking you're a troll. But watchout, because there might be other legitimate  posters out there trying to troll you! You win if you can troll enough trolls into eating trolls, such that all trolls are dead and vanquished!

+1 for the lol.

UNVOTE

Vote: Galzria - as we've clearly identified that humor is anti-town.

[jotheonah]

O, remember when you said we broke Galzria? I think we definitely did.

[Dsell]

Welcome to Trolls! Your role is legitimate poster! Unfortunately for you, the trolls like to eat legitimate posters for breakfast, so in order to stay alive, you're going to have to troll the trolls into thinking you're a troll. But watchout, because there might be other legitimate  posters out there trying to troll you! You win if you can troll enough trolls into eating trolls, such that all trolls are dead and vanquished!

+1 for the lol.

UNVOTE

Vote: Galzria - as we've clearly identified that humor is anti-town.

Vote: Captain_Frisk - because apparently, the thing to do is to vote for the preceding poster.

Pre-post edit: Unvote
Vote: jotheonah

[O]

O, remember when you said we broke Galzria? I think we definitely did.

Mafia isn't for the weak of heart.

Vote: Dsell per his above reasoning.

[Green Opal]

Sweet, the forum's back to normal now.
Surely the Insomniac's SFS vote is of the same type that is there to draw people out of the woodwork (hey, that works as a turn of phrase) and was even discussed to that purpose? And I don't think simply not posting can be taken as that much of a sign of being town, simply on the odds being fairly low of the number of people who haven't said anything yet all being innocent.
Edit for catchup posts: well, it looks like that situation has resolved itself anyway. So in the name of trying to get something to happen, Vote: Glooble.

@SFS: I have played forum mafia, but not for a long time, and I played with a group of real life friends (on a shared interest forum) so everything was rather more silly and injokey. So this is the first time I've really been trying to deeply analyse what people are saying and meaning. That said I have read the first two games on here.

Second pre-edit: http://imgur.com/BDbiD

[Insomniac]

Unvote

Got a response that is all I wanted for now.

[Galzria]

Welcome to Trolls! Your role is legitimate poster! Unfortunately for you, the trolls like to eat legitimate posters for breakfast, so in order to stay alive, you're going to have to troll the trolls into thinking you're a troll. But watchout, because there might be other legitimate  posters out there trying to troll you! You win if you can troll enough trolls into eating trolls, such that all trolls are dead and vanquished!

+1 for the lol.

UNVOTE

Vote: Galzria - as we've clearly identified that humor is anti-town.

Damn, they're on to me! I'll add an incriminating smiley here too. That's two blows against me. Jokes, AND emoticons!

[O]

So this is the first time I've really been trying to deeply analyse what people are saying and meaning.

you're in for a rough time bro. 

Unvote

Vote: Galzria for making me edit my post pre-post

[O]

you know.. I really really wish we had a Mafia IV discussion thread, I get the feeling it would have been pretty damn interesting to read D1 comments.

[Dsell]

And I don't think simply not posting can be taken as that much of a sign of being town, simply on the odds being fairly low of the number of people who haven't said anything yet all being innocent.

I don't think anyone is trying to say that non-posters are automatically town. Also, I don't think I get your maths...but it doesn't matter because according to the roster of what people are doing, he's online and reading this topic, so probably just catching up. Don't worry, if someone is chronically not posting, the situation will get fixed up.

[popsofctown]

There's no Mafia IV QT?  I'm fine with it, the only objector I can recall is TINAS and he's not playing.

[Glooble]

Ok, so a few things about me.

I work in a restaurant. While I am at work (usually 7 in the morning to 3 in the afternoon) I have absolutely no computer access. I am on my feet, waiting tables.

Today I had to wait a very long time for a bus and didn't end up getting home until 5.

I was not expecting to come home on day one to 11 pages of forum! I am up to page eight and decided to post just let you all know I exist, but damn this is a lot to digest. I will sa something substansive as soon as I have read through and caught up.

[popsofctown]

Unvote

Got a response that is all I wanted for now.

You do realize your vote had no impact whatsoever on whether he posted or is promptness in doing so?
Do something useful.

[Axxle]

Wow, I am so confused now.  I don't know what votes are real and what are jokes.  And this is why I say that joking just introduces a lot of unnecessary noise that's damaging to town.

[Galzria]

I'm going to put my vote back on Axxle, actually. He WAS a bit jumpy earlier, and then went all mysterious and silent when things turned lighthearted.

Vote: Axxle

Anybody care to join me?

[O]

Joking allows for a less mafia-influenced vote actually, I think.

Also it makes mafia 1000x more fun.

VOTE: AXXLE for hating puppies and young children

[Captain_Frisk]

All right - to somewhat get us back on track, we're 1/2 day in - and here's the post count thus far.  Note that this is going to be warped significantly based on our time zones etc.  For example - I'm about to go mow the lawn and deal with eveningtime family stuff - so I proably won't post much for the next 12 hours.  People on the west coast who post from home might not have posted at all yet.

These posts counts include pregame thread... so the people with counts of 1 - have not posted in game at all - but presumably they did confirm to Volt overnight.

Name       Post Count 6/4
Galzria   35
Captain_Frisk   25
Axxle   22
Insomniac   21
 popsofctown   21
O   20
Grujah   18
Dsell   17
Robz888   16
jotheonah   8
Green Opal   6
Tables   5
SwitchedFromStarcraft   5
theorel   1
Glooble   1

I'd really like to hear from theorel and Glooble - even if you're just saying hi and telling us a little about yourself.  I was a little intimidated about posting in my first game, and clearly I've loosened up a bit.

My learnings thus far are - it's not scary - being involved is a whole lot of fun, and it appears that there has been no hard feelings at the end of the game, regardless of whatever yelling occurs in game.

[Axxle]

I'm going to put my vote back on Axxle, actually. He WAS a bit jumpy earlier, and then went all mysterious and silent when things turned lighthearted.

Vote: Axxle

Anybody care to join me?

I do have work.

[Captain_Frisk]

Note that 10 extra posts came in pre-post.  I did not fix it.

[Dsell]

Yeah yeah...this is hilarious and I'm really enjoying it but I guess I will Unvote so as not to confuse and so maybe we can get back to serious? But we don't have to yet...really, this is great.

[Galzria]

Aww, damn. He returned. Well, I'm still good right now. This bandwagon is open for service.

[popsofctown]

All my votes are serious (this particular game)

[Insomniac]

Unvote

Got a response that is all I wanted for now.

You do realize your vote had no impact whatsoever on whether he posted or is promptness in doing so?
Do something useful.

Ok, VOTE: popsofctown
For being ridiculous in his voting for me. Read Mafia I and II its common to vote for lurkers, which I did, I saw him read the thread, then go elsewhere before posting, so I voted for him.

[O]

I'm not changing my vote until Axxle explains his stance on Puppies and young children.


Please note: Any pedobear references AT ALL and I will personally destroy you, you WILL get lynched day one.

[Voltgloss]

There's no Mafia IV QT?  I'm fine with it, the only objector I can recall is TINAS and he's not playing.

If ALL players specifically state that they are comfortable with a Mafia IV Discussion Quicktopic existing, I will create one and PM the link to any non-players (and deceased non-Mafia players) who are interested to join.  When I next provide a Vote Count I will include a count of players who have stated they are comfortable with a discussion quicktopic existing.

Also, all players confirmed receipt of their role PMs.

[O]

I am comfortable with a quicktopic existing

[Dsell]

Dsell

• Saboteur
•