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[clb]

Hi all - could I get your opinions on this game? I know we aren't supposed to post wins, but I think I lucked into this one. The game was essentially a mirror match - tourneys with a bit of gentle +cards.
I have 2 basic questions for you:
1) Did I win this solely on shuffle luck?
2) Was there a better strategy? I considered doing something with venture + tunnel (seemed too slow). Caravan seemed like it would be too slow.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120531-161137-e81135b5.html

Thanks!!

[HiveMindEmulator]

This seems pretty straightforward. Only problem I see is that you bought Tournaments with $5+ on turns 8 and 12 when you already had 3 Tournaments. At this point you probably want to be getting Apprentices or Stables to help you draw all your stuff together. Other than that, pretty straightforward. You were a little luckier, but Apprentice first over Stables was a better choice, so you probably deserved to win.

Regarding Venture/Tunnel, I don't think that's ever fast enough. It's one of those things that sounds good when you first think of it, but doesn't really make any sense if you think a little more. You don't discard that many cards with Venture, and even when you do get Golds from Tunnel, you run into the problem that if the Tunnels you draw in your hand were Silver, you'd have $2 more, and if the ones your discarded were Silver (which occur less frequently than the ones in hand), you probably wouldn't lose more than $1 of buying power anyway.

[clb]

That makes sense, thanks. I panicked and bought two late tournaments because my opponent was going at them pretty heavy. I can see your point that draw is more important at that point - use apprentice to deliberately draw the whole deck (or enough of it) to raise your chances of tourney/province colliding as opposed to loading up your deck with tourneys in the hope they would collide. That seems a pretty solid lesson that I will try to be more aware of. Thanks!

[DG]

I think your start was correct but there was an opportunity to give your deck a bit more bite in the mid game. If you'd taken caravans to increase your hand size (or more stables) you could pair up card combinations; estates with apprentice, province with tournament, stables with copper. Once the apprentice trashes away the estates the increased hand sizes will necessarily give extra spending as well. This style of play also gives an option for a horn of plenty, since you could have caravan, tournament, apprentice, and stables in play on most turns, as well as treasures and tournament prizes. Faster deck cycling also helps you get more from your tournament prizes.

[WanderingWinder]

This seems pretty straightforward. Only problem I see is that you bought Tournaments with $5+ on turns 8 and 12 when you already had 3 Tournaments. At this point you probably want to be getting Apprentices or Stables to help you draw all your stuff together. Other than that, pretty straightforward. You were a little luckier, but Apprentice first over Stables was a better choice, so you probably deserved to win.

Apprentice first over stables was a better choice? Seriously? Disagree. What are you blowing up with the apprentice so early? Estates, if you're lucky enough to find them. Which is a pretty decent-sized if. And that will draw you two. Stables does even a bit better. Now, at some point, I agree that you want to switch over to apprentice, when you're ready to sac some more expensive stuff. But not that early.

[HiveMindEmulator]

^You're probably right, but I think it's close. The thing is, with Apprentice, you probably end up ahead more often (if you trash an Estate and buy the same thing would have with Stables, you end up with an Apprentice vs a Stables and an Estate), but you run the risk of being behind by a larger amount. I'm not sure how much more behind that is. It's hard to say. Simulator won't play Apprentice right, and definitely won't adapt Apprentice choices to the situation where it's behind.

[WanderingWinder]

^You're probably right, but I think it's close. The thing is, with Apprentice, you probably end up ahead more often (if you trash an Estate and buy the same thing would have with Stables, you end up with an Apprentice vs a Stables and an Estate), but you run the risk of being behind by a larger amount. I'm not sure how much more behind that is. It's hard to say. Simulator won't play Apprentice right, and definitely won't adapt Apprentice choices to the situation where it's behind.

Yeah, simulator won't help here. But I actually think you've got it backwards - you're behind more often with the apprentice, for two reasons. First, you need to have it hit with that estate, which isn't going to happen ll the time. Second, you only get two cards with it minus an estate, as opposed to three cards minus a copper. Well, you'd rather be minus an estate than a copper, but I don't think that's worth an extra card, especially when you're trying to connect those provinces up. And there's the extra benefit of the apprentice that you permanently get rid of the estates, which, well, will be a benefit for large swatches of the game, but makes it less likely you hit the next one, and you do actually want the green in the end. In any event, after a while longer, you want the apprentice anyway, but I think at that early stage, you want the stables, and THAT early, I don't think there's much question. Though I also don't think it's like a huge huge difference.

[DG]

The simulator likes taking the apprentice before the stables and it's right. Trashing out the estates is a big deal for this deck.