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Author Topic: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night  (Read 24211 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2025 on: September 01, 2015, 03:22:36 pm »

And now that you all know I'm a creepy stalker, I was thinking maybe I'd have better luck asking in here than in the thread designated for it:

I like mafia-folk better than normal people.  Anyone want to play Dominion?  I'm terrible and want to try playing non-randoms to get better.  And I've got a bunch of free time this afternoon.
FULL CIRCLE
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2026 on: September 01, 2015, 03:27:56 pm »

f.ds is a flat circle
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Axxle

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2027 on: September 01, 2015, 08:05:12 pm »

Oh hey, QS!

It was your avatar that gave it away.  I skim some threads at MS on occasion, did a bunch of it recently because of 1) trying to prepare for and balance Paris Mafia and 2) trying to think about balance in regards to the probably-someday Charge Me Up setup.  When you signed on here, I recognized your avatar.  It seemed pretty specific, so I wandered aimlessly around threads on Mafiascum for a while looking for a samurai that smelled of sunflowers until I saw the avatar again.  Then I read a bunch of your posts and compared posting styles.  The V/LA clinched the deal, but I would have guessed anyway.
Yeah, please refrain from doxing in the future (or at least something close to it)
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QuickSync

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2028 on: September 01, 2015, 09:38:21 pm »

Oh hey, QS!

It was your avatar that gave it away.  I skim some threads at MS on occasion, did a bunch of it recently because of 1) trying to prepare for and balance Paris Mafia and 2) trying to think about balance in regards to the probably-someday Charge Me Up setup.  When you signed on here, I recognized your avatar.  It seemed pretty specific, so I wandered aimlessly around threads on Mafiascum for a while looking for a samurai that smelled of sunflowers until I saw the avatar again.  Then I read a bunch of your posts and compared posting styles.  The V/LA clinched the deal, but I would have guessed anyway.
Yeah, please refrain from doxing in the future (or at least something close to it)

Oh, stop. It would be one thing if I never wanted people to look me up, but I don't care that much. I could very well stop using the name quick and have different avatars on each site I play at. Its not a big deal to me. If you looked at my wiki you would see I have my record across all sites. I wouldn't do that for no reason. Really, its not that big of a deal to me.
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pacovf

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2029 on: September 01, 2015, 09:44:17 pm »

While that might be the case for you, Axxle's point stands: it's better not to divulge this sort of information without the consent of the target person.
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QuickSync

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2030 on: September 01, 2015, 11:30:58 pm »

While that might be the case for you, Axxle's point stands: it's better not to divulge this sort of information without the consent of the target person.

Well, when you say it like that its pretty hard to argue against it.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2031 on: September 01, 2015, 11:32:36 pm »

It wasn't very hard, I didn't hack anything, I don't know any personal information about him, nor do I want it or try to get it.

He said he played on Mafiascum, I figured out which Mafiascum account was his by matching the avatar.

That's far from doxing.

Anyway, sorry.  But it doesn't seem much different than guessing what alternate account someone played under.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2032 on: September 01, 2015, 11:33:52 pm »

Would it be off limits to google someone's username and see if they have other publicly available Mafia games?  I wouldn't think it should be.
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pacovf

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2033 on: September 02, 2015, 12:03:07 am »

It's the divulging that's dicey, not the finding out itself. I mean, if somebody posted here all the forums where there's a "pacovf" registered, I would be bothered by it. I know it's trivial to find out when you know what you are looking for, and I don't think any of those are things that I wouldn't want shared in here. It's the fact that I didn't get a choice in the matter that is a problem, and that now that information is way more public than what I intended, because people don't have to go actively looking for it anymore.

I mean, in this case, it was ok-ish, and QS has already said that s/he doesn't care, so no harm done. But you should know that you were stepping on a line that you should avoid crossing.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2034 on: September 02, 2015, 12:14:39 am »

Again, I'm sorry and won't do it again.

It's possible to believe you did nothing wrong while still not wanting to do it again so as not to bother good people you would like to not be bothered by things.

So any further arguing from me should be taken with this in mind.

Anyway, my point is that it's trivial to google a username.  If you have two accounts on a site, it's generally accepted that people can try to figure out which accounts match, although obviously they are under no obligation to help.  I believe that if no illegal or morally questionable means are used, it's fine to figure out when two accounts on different sites are probably the same person.

And I don't believe that we should be prohibited from typing publicly available information into Mafia games.  Especially when it is game relevant, and not personally identifiable.

I don't think I should be prohibited from talking about another game you played under the name pacovf any more than I am prohibited from talking about another game you played here.  I will avoid doing so for the sake of not offending you, but I don't believe that should be a rule, and I don't believe such a rule makes any sense given the other rules in place regarding meta.
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pacovf

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2035 on: September 02, 2015, 12:30:37 am »

Well, QS had a different (albeit similar?) username. That's where, personally, I would draw the line in the sand; as in, I would ask for permission before sharing.

I know it's arbitrary, but you have to set limits somewhere, and the further you set them, the murkier it gets. So better safe than sorry, IMHO.

For the record, I don't think you did anything wrong per se, considering the context, it's just that the subject of internet identity is tricky, and you have to be careful.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2036 on: September 02, 2015, 12:37:18 am »

See, my personal line is anything that ties you to a "real" person.

As in, your actual name, or information about you (or me) I think is wrong to divulge.  The other line is privileged information.  For example, Mail-mi has my real name and non-junk email.  That isn't publicly linked to this account, and I'd like to keep it that way.  I might have once told someone on here about personal issues I've had in the past, that I would have a problem with.

If someone looks at my boardgamegeek account and comments on something there, I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Likewise if someone figures out what name I use on some other forum.

But yeah, it is murky, and I'd rather not upset people.  I honestly didn't think much about it, other than "I'm being clever with my good memory."

But I really think there is something more special about that line between the "real" person and the internet persona.  And that's my line, philosophically speaking.
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pacovf

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2037 on: September 02, 2015, 12:53:05 am »

Again, the issue is not figuring it out, it's then publicizing that knowledge without express consent.

I agree that any information that ties you to your real persona is strongly off-bounds. But if someone wants to have multiple internet personas, then you should also respect that, because there might be a reason for it. Maybe he uploads weird german porn with that other username, or is in an online support group, or it's an older username that is strongly tied to his facebook account... who knows.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2038 on: September 02, 2015, 01:01:32 am »

How do you know about my weird German porn account?!?  >:(

>:( is actually a sexy face in weird German porn)

Anyway, okay, I get that in theory.  And that makes sense I guess.  But tying one mafia-playing account to another still seems pretty minor.

And I think the means are important.  Like I really do think it's a moral problem if the connection was made unethically or with non-public information, by guessing someone's password or spying on them or abusing mod powers on two different sites to compare IPs or something.  But when other people could easily make the same connection, I think that's a different story.
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Awaclus

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2039 on: September 02, 2015, 01:04:20 am »

I think it should be common sense to assume that everyone will read everything you've ever written on the Internet and be able to connect your posts to the IRL you, unless you purposefully take measures to stay anonymous.
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Teproc

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2040 on: September 02, 2015, 04:45:39 am »

I think it should be common sense to assume that everyone will read everything you've ever written on the Internet and be able to connect your posts to the IRL you, unless you purposefully take measures to stay anonymous.

This has been my approach to the Internet for years now. I always assume anything I say can be connected to me IRL, because it really can, very easily (well, I also do use the same username everywhere and generally the same avatar, except for here because Dominion).
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pacovf

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2041 on: September 02, 2015, 10:45:17 am »

Analogy: you leave a set of house keys under your rug. You know it's not a very smart thing to do, but the convenience outweighs the risks, so you do it anyway. Someone comes to your house, takes the key from under the rug, and leaves the front door wide open. Even if they don't take anything from your house, even if you know that anyone could have gotten in your house if they really wanted to, that's still wrong.
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Teproc

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2042 on: September 02, 2015, 10:56:16 am »

Analogy: you leave a set of house keys under your rug. You know it's not a very smart thing to do, but the convenience outweighs the risks, so you do it anyway. Someone comes to your house, takes the key from under the rug, and leaves the front door wide open. Even if they don't take anything from your house, even if you know that anyone could have gotten in your house if they really wanted to, that's still wrong.

One of those things is illegal, the other one is not.

Let's take another analogy : Mr. X is a politician. You search around the Internet, and you find a blog post he wrote a few years ago where he says nazism was pretty cool (or something less bad, but whatever, something bad).

You might say : "but Mr.X is a public person". My argument is that we all are as soon as we log onto the Internet.
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Seprix

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2043 on: September 02, 2015, 10:56:26 am »

when it comes to public internet information, a lot of people are dumb. With the most basic of searches I could conceivably find people's other accounts (and sometimes personal information!!!), and I've ran tests on myself and others before. It's quite scary, actually. Just be careful what you put out there. There's this site called pipl and it's nice to put your own email and username into there, so you can see how exposed you could be and fix it if you're paranoid about that.It's not 100% accurate or anything, it just gets the obvious stuff.

I have found that younger version me was way more stupid about Internet security and privacy, and was most of my 'leaks' before I fixed it long ago. :)
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Awaclus

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2044 on: September 02, 2015, 11:04:13 am »

Analogy: you leave a set of house keys under your rug. You know it's not a very smart thing to do, but the convenience outweighs the risks, so you do it anyway. Someone comes to your house, takes the key from under the rug, and leaves the front door wide open. Even if they don't take anything from your house, even if you know that anyone could have gotten in your house if they really wanted to, that's still wrong.

Shouldn't you be completely fine with that happening to you, since you knew it was a possibility and you still thought that the convenience outweighed the risks?

Seriously, don't leave the keys under the rug and don't post stuff on the Internet that you wouldn't say IRL unless you know how to do it securely. It's for your own good.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2045 on: September 02, 2015, 11:05:37 am »

You enter your email?  Just the one?  You guys don't have like 6?

I've got:
1. Spam email for signing up to things
2. Old Spam email that is really full of spam, so I don't use much other than to sign up for really spammy things
3. Email for forums/sites I vaguely care about but don't want to see all the crap from most of the time
4. Email for friends/family
5. Email for work
6. Email for forums/sites I care about but don't want linked to the other email for forums for whatever reason.

And when I can get away with it, I use 10minutemail to sign up for things.
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Teproc

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2046 on: September 02, 2015, 11:11:11 am »

Analogy: you leave a set of house keys under your rug. You know it's not a very smart thing to do, but the convenience outweighs the risks, so you do it anyway. Someone comes to your house, takes the key from under the rug, and leaves the front door wide open. Even if they don't take anything from your house, even if you know that anyone could have gotten in your house if they really wanted to, that's still wrong.

Shouldn't you be completely fine with that happening to you, since you knew it was a possibility and you still thought that the convenience outweighed the risks?

Seriously, don't leave the keys under the rug and don't post stuff on the Internet that you wouldn't say IRL unless you know how to do it securely. It's for your own good.

Well I believe pacovf's argument is that it would still be wrong for that person to do it. Yes, you make it easy for them, but that doesn't justify the act. "Blaming the victim" is the appropriate phrase here, and I'm sure you know that logic has been fallaciously used many times in pretty digusting ways.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2047 on: September 02, 2015, 11:19:41 am »

Clearly his avatar was asking for it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2048 on: September 02, 2015, 11:54:46 am »

You enter your email?  Just the one?  You guys don't have like 6?

I have a bunch of emails that I use for the purpose of staying anonymous, pretending to be multiple people, etc. and some that I used to have for the purpose of pretending to be 18 before I actually was 18, but I only have one email that's actually supposed to look like it's me.

Well I believe pacovf's argument is that it would still be wrong for that person to do it. Yes, you make it easy for them, but that doesn't justify the act. "Blaming the victim" is the appropriate phrase here, and I'm sure you know that logic has been fallaciously used many times in pretty digusting ways.

I don't think it's wrong, I think it's to be expected. It sounds like you're trying to make an analogy about the cases where rape victims have been blamed because they wore revealing clothing, but a better analogy would be a case where you wear revealing clothing and complain when other people are looking at you.

I have found that younger version me was way more stupid about Internet security and privacy, and was most of my 'leaks' before I fixed it long ago. :)

I have also found a similar thing about my younger self. What a coincidence!

By the way, this is why I firmly believe that people under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed to use a device with an Internet connection without parental supervision.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 11:57:31 am by Awaclus »
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popsofctown

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Re: Apparently this is where people talk when it's night
« Reply #2049 on: September 02, 2015, 02:07:20 pm »

pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.
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