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Author Topic: Dominion Lingo Dictionary  (Read 42789 times)

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PetterTB

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2011, 12:45:32 pm »
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When I hear "hard counter" I think of anything that just answers "no you dont!" to the attack. Moat/lighthouse, watchtower against cursers and so on. "Soft counter" on the other hand is more like menagrie against militia or wishing wells against ghost ship in my mind.
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randomdragoon

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2011, 10:31:40 pm »
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Actually, thinking about the "hard counter" vs "soft counter" some more ...

I don't think moat could be considered a hard counter a lot of the times. When I think "X hard counters Y" I tend to think "The presence of X makes me not want to buy Y at all". In this sense, there are very few hard counters in dominion, but they exist (bishop vs gardens comes to mind). Moat doesn't hard counter Witch in this sense because no matter how many moats you get, I'm still going to get Witch (either the curses screw you or too many moats does). Moat vs militia is even worse; you stop the militia attack but you give up a slot in your hand for a fairly weak action.

Warning: half-formed thought ahead

Maybe the definition of "counter" can be determined objectively by looking at "win rate with" and "win rate with given other card's existence". So maybe (making numbers up) Minion has a win rate of 1.1 overall but Minion has a win rate of 0.95 given that Horse Traders is a kingdom card. You could define cutoff points in the difference in win rates to define "hard" and "soft" counter. You'd probably want to filter over games involving people over a certain level as well. Oh boy...
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rattenversammlung

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2011, 06:25:53 am »
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I'd like to submit a definition for "empty court":

An empty court is a hand that contains some combination of Throne Rooms and/or King's Courts, but no other action cards to play with them.

also:
empty throne = (complaining about) drawing throne room without action to copy
setup = synonym for board, kingdom, ...
+action = synonym for village ("there is no +action in this setup")
spammable = card that are (also) good in multiples, mostly --> cantrips, often ensuing a --> war over them and running out the respective piles quickly
missing the (first) reshuffle = (complaining about) not drawing a card purchased on T1/T2 until T5, which is a huge setback
mirror match = game where both players pursue the same strategy, which rises the luck factor tremendously
___ war/race = both players trying to get the majority of a certain (spammable) card (Alchemist, HP, Lab, Caravan, Minion, ...) ("He won the Lab war and it was all downhill from there")
curse war = in a game without trashing, when both players try to give the opponent the majority of curses, therefore clogging the other player's deck and allowing to win on a --> tiebreaker
gardens race = both players trying to get the majority of gardens in a setup where a gardens strategy looks good
tiebreaker = card that allows a player to win on a tie of the most valuable victory card
village smithy = general strategy of combining a --> +action card with a --> terminal card drawer

and a term I never heard of, but that makes sense dominion-wise:
cashtrip = cards that gives +action, +card and +$, which are usually spammable and reduce the need for treasure cards, allowing a stable deck with good purchasing power / combinations with certain cards like Minion and Shanty Town.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 06:29:04 am by rattenversammlung »
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rspeer

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2011, 06:55:34 pm »
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"Village smithy" is a bad name for that strategy. I understand you're probably referring to action splitters in general as villages and card-drawers in general as smithies, but Village/Smithy itself is a much-discussed, surprisingly bad combo that's usually better off without the villages.

There are indeed strategies based on alternating +actions and +cards. The name should help people understand that not just any +actions and +cards will do.
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fp

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2011, 03:56:35 pm »
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Regarding shuffles:

shuffle (2) the turns (or gameplay) taken between shuffles.
dead buy to refer to a card just bought that misses a shuffle as a result of being drawn in the last hand of a shuffle.
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rattenversammlung

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2011, 09:54:27 am »
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estate tennis = players using Ambassador to repeatedly pass Estates between them turn after turn
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2011, 10:49:30 am »
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Ok: here's a revised definition of a soft counter: a card that can respond to an attack or opponent's strategy with less than 100% effectiveness. Soft counters exist along a spectrum of effectiveness: for instance, a Wishing Well almost completely negates the attack of a Ghost Ship, but a Counting House is far from ideal against a Mountebank attack. The closer the counter gets to 100% effectiveness, the more "hard" it becomes (i.e., Moat is a hard counter to any attack).

What about a counter that is more than 100% effective?  Horse Traders vs. Minion gets you a 6-card hand.

I've thought of "hardness" in terms of the effect on play.  Hard counters reduce the effectiveness of the played card, to the point that the card probably should/would not be bought/played for the property being countered.  I.e., Moat hard counters your Militia's hand-size attack, but if you draw your Militia you might still play it for $2.

This property of "hardness" then does not require 100% negation to effectively neuter a card's property's playability, and varies with the strength of the attack.

Soft counters substantially degrade the effectiveness of the specified property of the card, but buying/gaining/playing the card FOR THAT PROPERTY might still be sound strategy even in the weakened state.
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hughes

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2011, 11:38:50 am »
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estate tennis = players using Ambassador to repeatedly pass Estates between them turn after turn
I'd also accept pingponging
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Markov Chain

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2011, 09:06:38 pm »
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Dead card: a card which is no longer of any value (curse-giver when Curses run out, Moneylender when you have no Copper left, Potion when no Potion cards are worth buying, Tournament when the prizes and Duchies are gone, Lookout when there is too much risk of being forced to trash a Province)

Deck thinning: improving the quality of your deck by trashing the weak cards

Terminal clash: drawing two terminals and only being able to use one, particularly on turn 3 or 4

Unlucky 7: having 7 coin when you wanted to buy a Province and there are no good 7-cost Kingdom cards

Virtual money: +coin on a card; distinguished from real money because it is immune to Thief and Pirate Ship and can be played before you play a Tactician

X deck: a deck specialized to benefit from card X (examples: Gardens deck, Fairgrounds deck, Minion deck, Alchemist deck, Tactician deck, Golem deck)


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oznorkas

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2011, 08:41:06 am »
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How about "Power creep"?

I have seen this several places, and I am not sure what it means.
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DStu

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2011, 10:23:26 am »
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[Deleted for realizing that the discussion was 2 weeks ago]
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Kirian

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2011, 01:48:08 pm »
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Dstu:  Don't delete it!  The discussion may have started old, but the post is stickied (it just needs some editing... I promise this weekend-ish!)
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Brando Commando

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2011, 04:42:11 pm »
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Nobody actually says this, but they ought to:

decksplosion: the act of drawing all the cards in your deck (or some large number of cards) into your hand

As in, "You can improve your chances of igniting a decksplosion by combining Cities with King's Court."
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HLennartz

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2011, 06:08:21 pm »
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How about "Power creep"?

I have seen this several places, and I am not sure what it means.

"Power creep" is when expansions features cards that are progressively stronger than in the past. It's most commonly used with CCG's, where publishers have the incentive to make people buy the new cards because their increased power obsoletes the older cards. Some people consider Prosperity to show power creep, with the Goonds, King Courts, etc.

estate tennis = players using Ambassador to repeatedly pass Estates between them turn after turn
I'd also accept pingponging

Yeah, I hear "Estate ping-pong" much more often.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2011, 01:30:47 pm »
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You know, Province Game as in the list that's up there is what people use most commonly for a game without colonies, but I cannot stand it. Every game is a province game! You should really call them non-colony games. Well, just one of my somewhat irrational pet peeves...

HLennartz

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2011, 01:36:05 pm »
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You know, Province Game as in the list that's up there is what people use most commonly for a game without colonies, but I cannot stand it. Every game is a province game! You should really call them non-colony games. Well, just one of my somewhat irrational pet peeves...

It's called that because it's the most relevant card of the game, the defining card you could say. Every game could be called a "Copper Game," but they aren't.
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AJD

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2011, 11:52:30 am »
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I think I've seen "virtual +buy" occasionally to refer to cards that don't give you +buy but do give you a free gain (University, Workshop, etc.). Should that be added to the glossary?
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guided

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2011, 12:02:03 pm »
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I've never heard that one. I like, you know, "gain" for those effects.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2011, 12:08:36 pm »
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I've definitely heard virtual buy for those. I also prefer gain, but I've heard both. Virtual +buy, should, IMO, include (and this is the card that it applies best to) Black Market.

philosophyguy

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2011, 01:24:40 pm »
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Agree on adding "virtual +buy." I've seen the term often enough to think that it's worth including. You might also put in the entry something like "these cards are also called gainers."
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Matt_Arnold

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2011, 04:54:48 pm »
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What's "BMU"? I'm familiar with BOM (Buy Only Money), and BM (Big Money), and I presume BMU is related. Suddenly it seems to have displaced the first two in conversation. But a search of this thread reveals no occurence of BMU. What's the U?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2011, 05:07:15 pm »
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What's "BMU"? I'm familiar with BOM (Buy Only Money), and BM (Big Money), and I presume BMU is related. Suddenly it seems to have displaced the first two in conversation. But a search of this thread reveals no occurence of BMU. What's the U?
Ultimate. This is meant to mean a totally optimised big money strategy. Not sure why this is preferred to simply BM, but there you go

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2011, 05:19:10 pm »
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BM buys only Province > Gold > Silver. BMU Buys Duchy when there are less than 5 Provinces left and Estate when there are less than 2, and also applies the PPR.

I think.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2011, 12:18:01 am »
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TINAS, that may be true for some people, but I use BM to denote what you're talking about s BMU, more or less. Except that that's not optimal for BMU, as just in big money, you should buy duchies on exactly 5 earlier than that, with 6 or more later, and you probably shouldn't apply PPR almost ever.

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2011, 03:58:44 am »
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I only said I think :(

But yeah, the term "BM" was originally coined when people discovered Province > Gold > Silver was a pretty solid strategy in the base set. "BMU" came about when people started to optimise it. Since then, people have started using "BM" to refer to an optimised BM strategy which is fair enough since it's pretty much the same thing anyway. these days "BM" and "BMU" mean essentially the same thing, but originally "BM" was something a little more basic.
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