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Author Topic: Behold the POWER of Scout!  (Read 13670 times)

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RisingJaguar

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2012, 01:32:15 pm »
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Scout's problem is that it needs 3 or 4 other specific kingdom cards to be even considered, ouch!

Sure, I've bought it on the occasional "Damn, I have $4 and I don't want any more Silver" turn, but those are rare indeed. I've tried it with Nobles and even Harem, but the effect is so small it's negligable (opportunity cost).
When do you have $4, not want any more silver, AND not have any other engine components that cost 4 or less that you still want? Because 'I don't want more silver' == I'm playing an engine.

Scrying Pool games.  But we knew that already.

I suspect that adding +1 Card is probably just a bit too much of a buff, but maybe not.  If you don't want to add the +1 Card, maybe have it a) look at 5 cards instead of 4, b) AND take Curse into your hand too, c) AND cost $3 and then you'd have a card that might occasionally be worth buying.

Actually, I think the right way to do fixed Scout is to have it look at 5 cards, have it take Curses and give it +1 Card, but then make it cost $5.  It would end up being comparable to Apothecary then.  Man, that's a lot of work for one card.
That sounds much better than cartographer.  For the ability to dump coppers, you get to put the crap cards in your hand (not negligible) and look at an extra card? 

I like your version of the card though without drawing one card.  If it could take curses, I think that would be a significant boost (relative to scout) and the $4 cost would be much more manageable.  It would work a lot better as a pseudo-defence. 
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2012, 02:29:59 pm »
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The problem with Scout/Great Hall is that you need to throw money in with that combo, which conflicts with Scout's drawing. On the other hand, I would expect to see greater success with Scout/Harem strategies, because increasing your buying power can increase your drawing power at the same time. (Also, using JUST Harems for money is very effective: $4, buy a Scout; $6, buy a Harem; $8+, buy a Province.)
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...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Jfrisch

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2012, 02:31:59 am »
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I think the basic issue with scout, is that scout needs to scan 5 cards rather than 4 to be reasonable. Note that what scout effectively does in most situations is 1. reorder a few cards of your deck (which, without a draw ability is not that great and, even with a draw ability is pretty mediocre) 2. clear out junk from your deck. Unfortunately in order to gain any cards from scout, your deck needs to have a green density of 25% which, by the time you've finished your second reshuffle it is probably a bunch below. Even if you have a green filled deck (say, 40%) scout ends up drawing on average 1.6 cards, or half a lab in a green heavy deck. In order to get a lab effect you need an outrageous 50% green deck. (for reference, caravan gives you a lab effect, with the downsides of being a duration, at the same price point of 4, while durations do have significant downsides with missing the reshuffle, 50% green is way to damaging to achieve beyond the very end of the game to make it at all reasonable). With 5 cards the amount of power the card gives you (how much better than +1 card, +1 action) increases substantially. In a 30% green deck, scout becomes 2 and a half times as strong, still not great but good enough to use. with sifters/crossroads/kingdom vp cards in general. I would begin to view scout as a tolerable option. Adding on the functionality of curses, as some have suggested, would buff up scout tremendously in curse games, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with such a blatant disparity in use, though I understand that the same disparity exist with farming village. In short, scout with 5 cards becomes a usable card FAR more often than with 4, buffs beyond that should probably experiment with drawing 5 first.
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qmech

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2012, 03:46:51 am »
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In a 30% green deck, scout becomes 2 and a half times as strong
I agree that it's odd that Scout doesn't look at 5 cards, but I don't see how you get a 2.5 times boost from looking at 1.25 times as many cards.  What exactly did you mean?
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SevenSpirits

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 04:29:48 am »
+1

In a 30% green deck, scout becomes 2 and a half times as strong
I agree that it's odd that Scout doesn't look at 5 cards, but I don't see how you get a 2.5 times boost from looking at 1.25 times as many cards.  What exactly did you mean?

Focusing just on the raw card drawing power...

In a 30% green deck, Scout needs to look at 3.333 cards just to break even with not having the Scout at all (i.e. +1 card, +1 action). So only .666 of the 4 cards it's looking at are profit, so if you increase its look by 1 full card, its profit goes from 30% x .666 cards, all the way to 30% x 1.666 cards (which is 2.5 times as much).  :P
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qmech

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Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2012, 04:50:06 am »
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Thank you.  That's a reasonable interpretation.
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