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[O]

Tell you what I see. J's sweating things slipping away when a townie was SO CLOSE.

me too though, Right? i must be glad my mafia partner just barely didn't get lynched, partially due to my campaigning against it.

Robz must be so proud of - oops, crap.

Huh?

I was making a joke

[Dsell]

And we have GOT to something about def.

[Galzria]

eHalcyon: yes, a dual-no lynch offsets it, but generally as 1 no lynch is bad, 2 is terrible. I don't remember the official term, but its something like "town is so scared to lynch, they play themselves to death waiting"

[Robz888]

Dsell, I'm just curious, what happened to your suspicion of me?

(I ask because your conviction that I was the mafia seems a little opportunistic to me if you are no longer prepared to argue for it when the town has mostly moved on to other suspects. I haven't forgotten, of course. Or perhaps you no longer suspect me so intensely.)

[O]

jotheonah (3 votes)
- yuma
- Morgrim
- Galzria

Eevee (1 vote)
- Robz

Galzria (5 votes)
- eHalcyon
- O
- jotheonah
- Eevee
- Captain_Frisk
-Dsell

Not voted: def, Voltgloss, michaeljb

Robz, it's probably time for you to hammer, if you're there. Volt/michael will probably get there eventually, but maybe not. Def is gone, and no way is morgrim hammering Galz.

[jotheonah]

Robz won't hammer. He's either ok with the no lynch and thinks Galz is town or he's mafia trying to keep his hands clean and knows Galz is town. Either way, he ain't hammering.

[Galzria]

I'm fine with that Dsell. Just look awfully close at the accusations I've made, the reasons I've given, and who has been campaigning this way for pages now. (btw, O said himself he planned on this day 2. (This being going after a townie))

[O]

Robz won't hammer. He's either ok with the no lynch and thinks Galz is town or he's mafia trying to keep his hands clean and knows Galz is town. Either way, he ain't hammering.

That's why I'm pressuring him into hammering, silly 

[Dsell]

Dsell, I'm just curious, what happened to your suspicion of me?

(I ask because your conviction that I was the mafia seems a little opportunistic to me if you are no longer prepared to argue for it when the town has mostly moved on to other suspects. I haven't forgotten, of course. Or perhaps you no longer suspect me so intensely.)

I still suspect you and I had considered writing one more post about it trying to get some support. But come on, that wasn't going to happen. And I think that there is a real chance Galz is mafia. And that chance is worth a vote to move us forward.

[Insomniac]

For those of you curious I DID ping def at June 02, 2012, 11:01:14 pm dominion strategy server time. This means he has until tomorrow 11:01:14pm server time before I open up his slot for replacements.  unfortunate that it falls during a guaranteed portion of the game night, but thats the way the cookie crumbles

He has not logged on since June 1 mid day though so he hasn't seen the ping or anything here

[Captain_Frisk]

For those of you curious I DID ping def at June 02, 2012, 11:01:14 pm dominion strategy server time. This means he has until tomorrow 11:01:14pm server time before I open up his slot for replacements.  unfortunate that it falls during a guaranteed portion of the game night, but thats the way the cookie crumbles

He has not logged on since June 1 mid day though so he hasn't seen the ping or anything here

I hope he's ok, but his profile time zone says Berlin... so he should be soundly asleep at this time.  We won't hear from him until right before end of day - if at all.

[eHalcyon]

eHalcyon: yes, a dual-no lynch offsets it, but generally as 1 no lynch is bad, 2 is terrible. I don't remember the official term, but its something like "town is so scared to lynch, they play themselves to death waiting"

Fair enough.  But we've got a fairly big town, and hopefully some decent power townies.

[Robz888]

I'm here, and should be able to check in and post pretty frequently the rest of the night.

However, I must confess that at the moment I don't really plan to vote for Galzria. I am open to being persuaded, but I am in no hurry to cast the pen-ultimate or ultimate vote for someone whom I still think is perhaps town.

I understand the arguments on both sides. Here's my thing. I played carelessly early on this round. Dsell caught on to it immediately, and before I knew it I was labelled this unhelpful townie who was nasty and acting suspiciously, and I was being bandwagoned, and I really thought I was going to die. Honestly, the thought of self-hammering crossed my mind. When votes pile up against you, you would be shocked the crazy things that run through your head.

So for me, there is a narrative where by what is happening to Galzria is what happened to me, times ten. He got a little too worked up, said some careless things, and now he is in this sort of feedback loop of suspicion and insanity. He's just a misguided townie.

However, I very much see the other side of it. Yes he could be playing me, by trying to be so crazy. He insists on lynching, even if it's a townie. That's the big warning sign to me, because that's pro-mafia behavior, no matter what his role is. And I didn't at all like his certainty that we should kill Jo. There are reasons I am suspicious of Jo's roleclaim--and I think we should revisit them next round depending on what happens in the night--but for now what choice do we have but to believe it? And he still wanted to kill Jo. Was CERTAIN.

I know that I am known for strong opinions. Well, I had strong opinions in MII because I was mafia. But hey, I had strong opinions in M1, and I was a good guy. Sorry guys, I'm lost right now. I lean toward thinking Galzria is town, and I don't want to kill a townie. I also lean toward thinking Jo is what he says. There is no guarantee that I will change my mind in the next few hours. Can you understand that?

[O]

You don't need to think that Galzria is guaranteed mafia. You need to think that there's at least a 1/12 chance that he's mafia (1/10 if you want to be super sure) to vote, since you agreed a random/policy lynch is better than a no lynch.

I find it hard to believe that you really doubt Galzria is mafia more than 90%.

[Captain_Frisk]

So Rob - you are still advocating no-lynch? 

[eHalcyon]

Robz, what was your feeling on Galzria when he was staunchly defending you, before he voted for you?  I may have missed it but I don't remember you really addressing it.  No "thanks for trusting me" or "good read".  No "I'm grateful but why are you so sure I'm town?"  I would find it rather bewildering if I were in the position you were in and someone was putting so much into defending me.

[jotheonah]

I'm going to bed soon. But it occurs to me that if we do end up with no lynch, I could go ahead and use my vig on Galz? Just thought I'd float that as an option, since it would offset the No Lynch numbers problem. It's still probably better to save it, but since I am convinced Galz is mafia, I have no qualms with it.

[Galzria]

I still can't wrap my head around WHY the ONLY response about J's roleclaim being genuine is "because he did it". I'm sorry. How many times have I said that while I have convictions, and say I'm certain, I'm willing to listen to good reason? But NOBODY will answer that. His claim was equally likely as Mafia, so WHY has it aquitted him?

[Dsell]

The problem is, if we don't lynch Galz and he doesn't die in the night (hint: he won't, way too suspicious for mafia to keep around) we are still left in this same rut. Wondering if he is mafia. Where do we go day 2? Robz, you say we have gotten a lot of information from day 1. I agree, but specifically what do you mean that we can use to make a more informed decision on day 2? I feel like lynching Galz will get us the first REAL piece of info in this game, which we could really use. I'm somewhat confused too. But I think that it is likely enough that he is mafia that it is worth the risk of lynching a townie.

Positive:
Real information
Extra inferred information (who voted, when, etc)
Chance of lynching mafia

Negative:
Chance of lynching town (possibly higher chance than lynching mafia)
I'm not sure??

Can anyone add to that list?

[Morgrim7]

OK, I can not take this anymore. Vote: Galzria even though I know you are town. Sorry Galz. Truly, I am.

[O]

I still can't wrap my head around WHY the ONLY response about J's roleclaim being genuine is "because he did it". I'm sorry. How many times have I said that while I have convictions, and say I'm certain, I'm willing to listen to good reason? But NOBODY will answer that. His claim was equally likely as Mafia, so WHY has it aquitted him?

There are cops. There are investigators. There is role after role after role that will now be directed at J. So instead of risking killing a power-townie, we investigate them instead.

[O]

aaannnnd Galz is hammered.

[Galzria]

Haha, no problem M. It's the right choice for town, even though I'm town as well. No hard feelings.

[Robz888]

So Rob - you are still advocating no-lynch?

Uh, not exactly. I did vote for someone. I voted for Eevee. The two other people with any votes are Jo and Galz. I'm quite sure lynching Jo is worse than lynching no one, because I am more inclined to believe his claim than disbelieve it. And I'm still more convinced the Galz is not mafia than mafia. So why should I prefer that he die?

I guess if this is going to happen anyway and I am just delaying it, I don't mind casting the vote, I suppose. I'm just not at all convinced that Galz dying is better than no one dying. Do you understand that? I'm trying to approach this rationally.

Robz, what was your feeling on Galzria when he was staunchly defending you, before he voted for you?  I may have missed it but I don't remember you really addressing it.  No "thanks for trusting me" or "good read".  No "I'm grateful but why are you so sure I'm town?"  I would find it rather bewildering if I were in the position you were in and someone was putting so much into defending me.

I thought that because we had been co-mafia together, he had picked up on the fact that I wasn't mafia, and that's why he was so convinced. This was before, when all he was saying is "Robz probably isn't mafia, Jo probably isn't mafia." Eventually it became a little crazier: "Robz is ABSOLUTELY not mafia, Jo is ABSOLUTELY mafia." At that point I did start pushing back against the second half of it.

I had just the slightest, slightest worry that Galz was boldly coming to my defense because he was a mafia trying to win my trust. But honestly, I needed the support back then, and it seemed like "he knows I'm innocent because he knows me better than anyone else," seemed like a justifable explanation.

[jotheonah]

Now nothing left to do but survive the night. Protector roles, my life is likely in your hands. Though I will say on record that I won't use my power this night.