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Author Topic: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars (GAME OVER, TOWN WINS)  (Read 153789 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #775 on: June 03, 2012, 08:45:18 pm »

For the record, eHal, if you look at the length of my post and the time stamp on my post and O's, you'll see that I was composing it long before I saw his vote.

Fair enough.  But my vote was the first, and voting second feels a lot safer than voting first.  Plus, you could have been composing the post without intending to vote until you saw O's (due to the "new posts have been made" feature of the forum).
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Eevee

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #776 on: June 03, 2012, 08:50:04 pm »

"Lynching a town is better than nolynching"

OK, thats it

Unvote
Vote:Galzria
Yeah wtf.
VOTE: Galzria
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #777 on: June 03, 2012, 08:53:17 pm »

"Lynching a town is better than nolynching"

OK, thats it

Unvote
Vote:Galzria
Yeah wtf.
VOTE: Galzria

I believe this is 6.  Galzria - any words?
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Morgrim7

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #778 on: June 03, 2012, 08:54:38 pm »

Aww, you are too nice to be Mafia! Maybe it is that you are a fellow solo challenge hoster. ;)
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I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #779 on: June 03, 2012, 08:55:52 pm »


2) The biggest lesson for me is "O is a terrible player"


I'll just repeat my Mafia I voting record:

Townie over Town Cop
Mafia Rolecop over Town Cop
Mafia (universal tho)

I also sparked tons of contributions to this thread, whereas you've been nearly entirely silent.

Have you even played much mafia before? It'd be funny if you made such a claim while being relatively inexperienced.

Plus you vote for robz without a real reason to.


Unvote
Vote:Eevee

Seemed pretty proud to me. You also used it in post #449.

Also, I believe #276 you said "statistically, lynching is better than not lynching", now you use it as a reason to vote for me. Lol.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #780 on: June 03, 2012, 08:57:37 pm »

"Lynching a town is better than nolynching"

OK, thats it

Unvote
Vote:Galzria
Yeah wtf.
VOTE: Galzria

I believe this is 6.  Galzria - any words?

I thought it was 5?

Me, O, jo, Galzria himself, Eevee... did I miss someone?
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #781 on: June 03, 2012, 09:00:23 pm »

Anyway, hope I hit 7 soon. This is going to be funny watching Mafia go perfect in this game (winning in the fewest number of turns they can). Although as I can still win if they lose, I hope you all will consider what I said after my death.

You may not like that I play with conviction, but that won't change. Look forward to pissing O off in future games as town by playing the exact same way.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #782 on: June 03, 2012, 09:01:21 pm »


I believe this is 6.  Galzria - any words?

Ooops - Control F was finding votes within quotes.

Seems like we have:


eHalcyon
joTheonah
Galzria
O
eeVee
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #783 on: June 03, 2012, 09:05:33 pm »

And look at them move. O hasn't pissed me off at all, but here ya go. Want terrible town play? You won't listen to me anyway, so what the hell. VOTE: GALZRIA

That's it!

I see 3 possibilities:

1.  Galzria has finally mafia forum snapped and wants to flip the table.
2.  Galzria is making a calculated risk as the bandwagon grows that by appearing to do something absolutely terrible (self lynch), we will put a stop to the lynching.
3.  Galzria is prone to erratic play - similar to Morgrim.

Based on his play from Mafia II - I'm ruling out 3.  I bet Galzria was sitting at home, with a big dopey grin on his face when Morgrim self hammered.

Based on his play from Mafia II - and his continued interested (although hedged in Mafia IV) - that I'm going to say that 2 is more likely than 1.

I'm nervous - but I'm going to:

Unvote

Vote: Galzria
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #784 on: June 03, 2012, 09:08:47 pm »

Yay! Need one more people. See how the Mafia lead. Lynch Galzria!
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Morgrim7

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #785 on: June 03, 2012, 09:10:20 pm »

Yay! Need one more people. See how the Mafia lead. Lynch Galzria!
Why are you doing this!?! Downvote, a million times.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #786 on: June 03, 2012, 09:11:40 pm »

Yay! Need one more people. See how the Mafia lead. Lynch Galzria!

I refuse to accept that someone with the experience you have would truly be willing to self hammer as town to prove a point.  You are either taking a really big risk, or you are a serious jerk.  Since with a few exceptions, everyone on these forums is super friendly and awesome, I'm going with "big risk".
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #787 on: June 03, 2012, 09:13:10 pm »

I'm town, really, and O isn't bothering me. What did it for me were the constant calls and suspicions that because I showed conviction, I could be Mafia, FOLLOWED by "He is willing to give ground in the face of a perfectly present deadline, now I KNOW he's Mafia!"

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #788 on: June 03, 2012, 09:18:38 pm »

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't mind suspicions for having convictions. But the responses I got for TRYING to be reasonable, after I had universally been asked to do just that were incredibly... Ugh. I don't even know.

Unvote

Make you feel better? Probably not. Suspect me for one thing, fine. But to ask me to budge and then claim I must be Mafia because I DID?

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #789 on: June 03, 2012, 09:19:13 pm »

I'm town, really, and O isn't bothering me. What did it for me were the constant calls and suspicions that because I showed conviction, I could be Mafia, FOLLOWED by "He is willing to give ground in the face of a perfectly present deadline, now I KNOW he's Mafia!"

I will be sorry if you flip town, but I was NEVER suspicious because you showed conviction.  I apologize if it sounded like that, but as I've repeatedly clarified in my last few posts, my suspicion is because you have showed conviction WITHOUT giving reason for it.  All you've done is say that jo looks too much like town.  Later on you said that you wouldn't give reasons because it would be torn apart, and big long explanations were your thing in Mafia II.  Even if that's the case, you could at least give a short explanation of some sort to back up your argument against jo.  Anything.  I mean, if you have such strong conviction, surely the reason can be summarized in a paragraph.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #790 on: June 03, 2012, 09:26:23 pm »

My reasons WERE listed in a (longer than necessary) post earlier. To sum it up, his words read town, his actions read Mafia. By that I mean someone who goes out of their way to DIVIDE the town, as his exercise did, drawing 6 different names as suspicious from 5 different people.

He also said one thing "Vote people, because anything less than 4 isn't a worry", then unvoted  (unvoted O, I'll add), because he didn't want to "leave him in danger", when O only had 3 votes.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #791 on: June 03, 2012, 09:40:03 pm »

VOTE: JOTHEONAH so at least if I die, I die somewhere I believe my vote could serve some REAL help to the town.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #792 on: June 03, 2012, 09:51:06 pm »

My reasons WERE listed in a (longer than necessary) post earlier. To sum it up, his words read town, his actions read Mafia. By that I mean someone who goes out of their way to DIVIDE the town, as his exercise did, drawing 6 different names as suspicious from 5 different people.

He also said one thing "Vote people, because anything less than 4 isn't a worry", then unvoted  (unvoted O, I'll add), because he didn't want to "leave him in danger", when O only had 3 votes.

I remember this post.  I remember feeling rather lukewarm about it, but I'm not sure now.  A lot has happened since then.  Can you link it so we can review?
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michaeljb

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #793 on: June 03, 2012, 09:54:57 pm »

Jeebus leave for a few hours and three new pages...real post coming once I catch up.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #794 on: June 03, 2012, 10:09:06 pm »

Same boat as Michaeljb, let me go through everything.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #795 on: June 03, 2012, 10:10:26 pm »

Alright, at the request of Dsell (although I would like to keep this short(er). No books this game!):

I started to type this out, explaining step by step how I came to my conclusions, and realized that it was going to become WAY to long for me to start setting a standard now. So instead I'm going to bullet point with commentary.


  • Where does Jotheonah stand on letting people sit with a few votes?

I would feel like kind of a jerk letting Morgrim be the Day 1 lynch ... AGAIN. Poor guy just wants to play some mafia.

On the other hand, two votes in a town this size is not so big a pressure cooker. It takes seven to kill? So 4 votes is the bare minimum for a mafia hammer, and that's assuming fairly stupid mafia play. So everybody calm down a little.

Seems to be pretty good advice. Don't panic over a few votes, because with this many people, a few votes can't hurt. Let's look at how he applied that advice to himself:

Ok, well I'm going to bed so I'm going to Unvote. It's been fun, this sparring with O, but I'm not actually convinced enough that he's mafia to leave that sitting there all night.

eHalycon, you're online and you're not participating in the exercise! what a mafia thing to do.

Taken all by itself, this seemed like a nice thing to do. And in fact, he even had ME thinking that:

Ok, well I'm going to bed so I'm going to Unvote. It's been fun, this sparring with O, but I'm not actually convinced enough that he's mafia to leave that sitting there all night.

eHalycon, you're online and you're not participating in the exercise! what a mafia thing to do.

+1 for doing the right thing. Unless you're Mafia covering your tracks. Hmm, ah, +1 anyway. I'm feeling nice today.

Buuut, not entirely. Those posts are back to back, and I was wary of how pro-town it felt even then. When Jotheonah unvoted, there were only 3 votes on O. One below the 4 that he admits being the "worry" number. And even 4 is only the "worry" number if the Mafia plays EXTREMELY poorly by hammering out the last 3 votes. So outside of "being a nice guy" there wasn't much reason for him to retract his vote except to give off a pro-town vibe. Is that damning all by itself? No, not really. Confusing, certainly. Saying one thing, and doing another for the sole purpose of being nice just didn't sit right with me.

  • Why was I wary of Jotheonah by that point?

Jotheonah's unvote post was #310. He stated in it that he was going to bed, but "jokingly" accused eHalcyon of not participating in his exercise. His "exercise" was post #291, less than 20 posts earlier:

I hear ya on that one. OK everybody, I am BORED. So I propose a game. Imagine that Insomniac posted that the new deadline was tomorrow and everyone has to vote for someone. Who would you vote for and why? (Note: don't ACTUALLY vote.)

And ... GO!

(I will be immediately suspicious of anyone who chooses not to participate in this exercise)

This was the post that grabbed my attention. I posted in M-II MANY times over that the Mafia would do their best to stir up confusion and suspicion. While I did my best to remain as "town" as I could there, I also did my best to poke and prod as many places as I could. J does a good job once again of phrasing this post to appear pro-town (especially the "don't actually vote" - Do you REALLY think that was necessary?), but stop for a moment and think what this ACTUALLY does.

I can't recall who (I think it was Dsell, though maybe C.F.) said they weren't REALLY suspicious of Robz, but were just taking part in this "exercise", and it was Robz's response that made them start thinking as him as a possible Mafia. There are a lot of people in this game. If accusations start flying around by townies without any real drive behind them, we will end up self-lynching ourselves. So what does he do? He starts this exercise, and then gets outta the way by "going to bed".

This was a great Mafia move in a town this size. His first response to both my above accusations is this:

Quick reply to G before work.

I was bating O. He didn't seem to be taking the game seriously, I thought a few votes on his head would change that. It did. Look how he's been playing lately. As soon as he looked to be in any real danger I unvoted.  Just like my "exercise" post, I'm looking for ways to generate meaningful replies for analysis. I think it's working.

By his own admission earlier, O should not have appeared to be in any "real danger". That unvote served no purpose except to make him look good. He knows that his case for survival in later days is going to be how he composed himself early. It worked for me, why not for him?

His second point is more to the truth of the matter. "I think it's working". Let's look at who had "accused" who in his "exercise":
#315, Voltgloss -> eHalcyon
#312, eHalcyon -> Morgrim/O
#304, Dsell -> def/Robz
#294, Galzria -> O/Volt
And much further down (at Eevee's first chance online), you have post #365 (will quote that a bit below): Eevee - Jotheonah/O

And that's not to mention Yuma or C.F. who had Morgrim voted already.

So his seemingly helpful exercise has caused the town to blow up in suspicions of each other, NONE of which he had a hand in. Why is that important? Two reasons:

1) He can't be tied back to any bad lynch that comes from that
2) He has town jumping on town.

We have SIX people as listed suspects in that list (seven if you include him from Eevee's post). Two of which are still primary suspects in most of your eyes. And NEITHER of those two has J connecting to them.

  • One last point before I go. This is already way longer than I wanted and as I'm tired, probably not as clear as I intended. Eevee's post #365 (Taking part in the "exercise") and J's response to it:

Suspicious: johtheonah (Something feels very off here. I'll try to think of a way explain this when I have more time, I actually meant to just post a list now but I started writing the neutral column first and had something to say about everyone of those so I feel I've got to do the same here)

That something you can't explain Eevee, is that he is too damn "pro-town". Everything he's done he's done in a "to help the town" manner, but has done anything BUT, or cast him in a better light. And before you could get more time to try and think what it was:

First of all, sorry for being busy and not posting for a while. Just caught up with everything.. oh so much reading. Makes me forget the stuff I had to say four pages back.. should really try to get online every 5 hours or so to not miss out on stuff.

Oh well, I'll chime in with my hunches now:

Suspicious: johtheonah (Something feels very off here. I'll try to think of a way explain this when I have more time, I actually meant to just post a list now but I started writing the neutral column first and had something to say about everyone of those so I feel I've got to do the same here) > O (you've got to know that is bad bad town play.. kind of weird though, dont really think you would go that route if you were mafia either but.. eh, pretty confident that cant be a power townie role at least) > Morgrim (was my #1 suspect until someone posted he was just like this in some other game where he was town. Still not exaclty convinced but certainly helps his case)

Neutral: michaeljb (you post a lot yet I still dont remember any of your opinions. have you actually said much anything?), def (posting so little, hard to say), Galzria (posts a lot, some of it looks mafia-ish, some of it townish. undecided still but inclined to believe you're clean and sincere), Captain_Frisk (I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts but am still not convinced. somehow it feels like you arent 100% honest / helping town as much as you could if you really wanted to)

I'm-pretty-sure-is-town: Voltgloss, Dsell (good, well-argumented posts that strongly make me feel like I can trust you. Either of these being mafia is a scary thought but I can't really see that being the case, it doesnt seem like either is holding any info back).

???: Robz, half the time you seem like a sure townie, then you go around and say something too stupid for a guy that smart and start looking suspicious again. Your playing style is very good for the game though, so if I was equally suspicious of you and someone else, I'd rather vote for the someone else.

If the lynch was tomorrow morning, I'd pick either O or johtheonah but hopefully we'll get more info before we have to cross that bridge. Everything still looks very puzzling, I find myself hoping I could be "sure" of someone so that I could really start to hammer that person instead of posting these somewhat vague thoughts (sorry guys, I really dont have anything better to offer). Mafia seems to be playing very well which makes me suspect the silent ones and the more experienced ones more (and johtheonah seems to be the only one of my 3 suspects above who fits either of these labels so arghhhh).

BWUH? Man I don't mind being accused here and there, shows the town are on their toes and all that, but I just got cited as #1 suspicious person without any concrete (or even abstract) reasons given AT ALL.  Eevee, I was getting a town read off you, but who does that?

I want to believe you're just new and don't see how incredibly suspicious that kind of vague, unsubstantiated pseudo-accusation is.

Also, you say Mafia is playing well, but I'm not sure what that even means at this point. All we can say is that Mafia hasn't done anything unbelievably stupid.

The very first person that suspected him in his exercise, he flips out over. **Oh No! How could THAT have happened! Well, good thing Eevee didn't bring any PROOF.** Boy, shoe doesn't fit so well on the other foot, does it J?

-----

So there you go. Probably not as clear as I normally would like, but I'm tired, and I don't have AS much at stake as my M-II game. Again though, I ask that you not be led to my conclusion based on my argument, but based on your own reasoning. I just ask that you stop to consider, "How would *I* act if I were Mafia? What would I try and do?" I feel that if you look at J's posts through that light, you'll notice that he looks pretty darn scummy. Not because he appears to the TOWN as scummy, but because he DOESN'T, yet his actions don't lead to good Town results.

To sum up:

His actions didn't back up his words regarding early voting.
He got off the "bandwagon" of O to set himself as looking good for future days.
His "exercise", while well disguised, did nothing but hurt the town.
He responded vitriolically to the taste of his own medicine when Eevee put him on the "would vote tomorrow" list
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #796 on: June 03, 2012, 10:11:40 pm »

Don't worry Eevee, I personally have not found your contributions scummy. I probably couldn't be convinced to vote for you day 1, in the same way that I probably couldn't be convinced to vote for Robz.

Now, I know that a bad lynch IS better than a no lynch because, well, the only person I KNOW is town is myself. So even if I don't believe someone is Mafia, they will still have a higher chance to be than I do.

So I will not rule out switching my vote at the deadline if I can't convince people to think backwards. I want to make sure we lynch SOMEBODY, but I would prefer it to be the person that I suspect. Alas, the troubles of being a team when you don't know who your teammates are!

That said, I would ask everybody to step back for just a moment and think: "If I were Mafia, how would I act, and how would I want the town to see me?" You'll start to understand why I find such strong pro-town play day 1 so much more suspicious than someone who appears (with 13 people playing) to give off slight Mafia "tells".

Most of you have admired that your feelings aren't strong, but that you just don't feel more comfortable with reads on anyone else. I understand that. I do. But put yourself in the Mafia's shoes (I've been there, remember) and you'll see why your angle of approach is wrong.

((I only refer to day 1, btw. After, everything goes out the window).
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #797 on: June 03, 2012, 10:12:56 pm »

Alright, I've reviewed everything up to this point (Wow, more than 400 posts already!?! Seriously? 13 people are hard to keep track of! I can't believe we've had so much (even if the first ~100 were pre-game) already!)

I know def has said that he won't be as active, and that's generally fine, but I'm not sure who he's really helping in a game that (with shorter deadlines) is going to move so fast.

Still, I'm not going to get on him this round.

With the deadline fast approaching however (A day and a half away people), I am going to cast my vote now. I've been talking about my suspicions for awhile, and while O raised my hackles early on, I think he did so TOO much to be Mafia. At least for now (If I'm wrong, well played day 1 O). There's also been a lot of talk about Robz, and while I think that the people making their points about him certainly have something to go on, I also believe that those arguments are false. They're traps that have been fallen into both in M-I (Theory), and M-II (Morgrim). It's way to easy to start needling away at somebody, see them get a little defensive, and drive home the bandwagon. Especially in the first round. I don't believe the people going AFTER Robz are Mafia either, just inexperienced. Maybe that'll be the death of me. Who knows.

No, I'm going to stick to my guns here, and VOTE: JOTHEONAH. I'm going to do so for three reasons:

1) As I voiced earlier, I think he is driving conversation too much. His "Who would you vote for if the deadline were tomorrow" exercise, while I thought was good for getting people to think, it was also good for getting people to NOT think about him. He's been way to Pro-Town. Yes, that's counter-intuitive, but if my suspicions are correct, a good place for Mafia to be day 1.

2) His "on and off" vote of O. He got on O's case because it was easy to do, but he didn't get on for a good reason. "Being annoying" didn't add anything real to the discussion, and the other reasons listed was all just parroting of things I had already said. If that bandwagon goes anywhere and O gets lynched, it's easier to blame the originator (me) than the guy who liked his argument and actually voted first (Jotheonah). The weakness of his argument was actually pointed out to him, and he unvoted before going to bed. A very nice thing for him to do, yes? Except with so many people (as has been pointed out) there really wasn't any risk of a hammer vote. Someone pointed out how terrible the Mafia play would have to be to quick-hammer votes #5, #6, and #7 round 1. And O was only at 3. The fact is, town isn't GOING to quick hammer. They are going to take their time and slowly build up a case, because they want to feel sure. So the ONLY thing his unvote did was make him look nice.

3) Since I've pointed out why I think he's Mafia hiding as town, he's stopped responding. I fully expect this to change with my vote and reasons listed above. So J, I look forward to your rebuttal. His point that my whole argument for him being Mafia is that he appears so pro-town doesn't get him anywhere. Yes J, that is EXACTLY my point.

So, there you have it. Mafia get by round 1 because it's easy to hide as town, and easy for town to lead themselves to their own doom. Too many people, too many suspicions, too many straw-man cases. All they have to do is appear helpful and friendly. Active and important. Town will lynch themselves going after their own shadows. I propose a different tactic. Stop chasing our own shadows and actually look amongst ourselves.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #798 on: June 03, 2012, 10:13:26 pm »

There you are eHalcyon.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

jotheonah

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #799 on: June 03, 2012, 10:13:40 pm »

I largely trust the town's ability to reread, but would it be helpful for me to also dig up my defenses against all those posts? Because I'm happy to do that, if people feel it's warranted.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him
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