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Author Topic: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars (GAME OVER, TOWN WINS)  (Read 153832 times)

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Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #600 on: June 03, 2012, 01:38:16 am »

I should add that, when I ask for a rebuttal from Robz to the points I raised, I do recall he gave a rebuttal to a couple of points.  (Not all of them.)  Specifically, citing the "weaseling out" that Dsell is supposed to have done (does anyone else agree with Robz that those posts of Dsell's are as suspicious as he sees them?) and apologizing for putting his own words in Eevee's mouth. 

The "rebuttal" I'm waiting for is what's alluded to here:

Can you see me doing it because the players who are attacking you are making a convincing argument whereas you are not? Cause that's what's happening...

I hate to leave it like this, I really do, but I have a ticket for a Jonathan Coulton concert and I gotta head out. Back on much later tonight.

Their argument is terrible. Luckily, it will be disproved quite soon.

I assume something further is coming to disprove the arguments against Robz.  That's what I'm hoping to see in the morning.
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Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #601 on: June 03, 2012, 01:41:26 am »

Grah, forgot something.

Robz, you said that you've been playing "sloppy" if you were Mafia, and asked me if you play sloppy.  The implication, of course, being that because you're playing sloppy, you can't be Mafia.

The problem is that you yourself said you change the way you play with every game. 

You just got done playing a game as Mafia where you were far from sloppy.  Now, you're in a new game.  You're supposedly being "sloppy."  But you change the way you play every game.  So how does that acquit you?  If you were really Mafia again in this game, I think the last thing you would do is play just like you played in M-II.

I'm not saying "you must be Mafia because you're playing differently than M-II."  I'm saying that I don't find comparing your behavior in this game to your behavior in M-II is really all that compelling one way or another.  (I know this is a centerpiece of Dsell's argument.  You'll notice I didn't cite it.  That's because I don't find it compelling.)
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #602 on: June 03, 2012, 01:47:49 am »

Robz needs more defense? We don't even have a case against him.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #603 on: June 03, 2012, 01:57:37 am »

I'm not saying "you must be Mafia because you're playing differently than M-II."  I'm saying that I don't find comparing your behavior in this game to your behavior in M-II is really all that compelling one way or another.  (I know this is a centerpiece of Dsell's argument.  You'll notice I didn't cite it.  That's because I don't find it compelling.)

Maybe I overstated my point? Or didn't come across well? I didn't even follow all of Mafia II, just early on and the very end. And while I saw some definite similarities there, there were of course differences too. Robz stated that he plays differently every time, Galz pointed out a key difference, and of course Galz has said over and over that Robz' playstyle seems different. Ok, great. Maybe it was different on the whole. But I had the same feeling at the beginning of both games that he was mafia. At the start of this game, before Mafia II was over, I didn't even realize yet that I had been right about him all along. So I didn't make much of that small suspicion. But it turns out I was right in Mafia II and I got that exact same feeling from him at the beginning of day one here. Still! That was never the "centerpiece" of my argument, just the thing that first made me want to hear more from him and I then later used it as some supporting evidence.

O, are you going to get around to doing anything or are you content to twiddle your thumbs and make comments from the sidelines?
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #604 on: June 03, 2012, 02:00:54 am »

But I had the same feeling at the beginning of both games that he was mafia. At the start of this game, before Mafia II was over, I didn't even realize yet that I had been right about him all along.

Sorry, this is a misstatement. I didn't have a feeling at the beginning of THIS game that he was mafia. I wasn't ready to make any assumptions yet. But I got the same feeling as in Mafia II, where he eventually turned up as mafia. Mind you these "feelings" aren't based on nothing, they are based mostly on how radically different he was in Mafia II and III from Mafia I, but here we are getting into more game comparison and dream-within-a-dream stuff, so I just won't go there.
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #605 on: June 03, 2012, 02:08:13 am »

Twiddling my thumbs on the sidelines? I'd respond to that inane post if I knew what the hell you were saying in the first place.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #606 on: June 03, 2012, 02:16:40 am »

Twiddling my thumbs on the sidelines? I'd respond to that inane post if I knew what the hell you were saying in the first place.

You haven't made a substantive post for a looooong time. You've been doing just what I said...making little comments on others' posts that have been mostly immaterial. You keep saying you have suspicions, you've said they won't amount to much...does that mean you are going to do nothing the rest of the day? Are you waiting to be convinced? Are you just gonna ride this one out and see what new info day 2 brings us?
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #607 on: June 03, 2012, 02:19:49 am »

Dsell, O has become more and more intentionally obtuse. I've been searching for different roles that might benefit a no-lynch situation, but I can't find anything.

He says there is no case against Robz, but also that he would have done everything he could to make sure J didn't get lynched. Those are the only two likely to get lynched by tomorrow. But if he felt there was someone else TO make a case for, you would think he would do so. Maybe he's oblivious to the fact that the deadline is tomorrow, but I doubt it.

He says he doesn't know what else he can do to get us to vote for him (after he drained to 0 posts). Could he be a Jester? I don't buy it.

I have no clue what his angle is (well, I do. Obtuse.), but I've got other people to watch right now. If he is going to intentionally be confusing, and not try to help, he's not worth my time right now. Unless I can find a role that he could be to explain his actions (and often lack thereof).
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #608 on: June 03, 2012, 02:22:04 am »

I made just about every other post for a large part of this thread, mostly constructive. I'm sorry I can't keep up that posting rate, which still far exceeds yours  ;).

My suspicions ATM have little backing outside of small tells I've picked up, so 1) they're really not very accurate, which is what I've said about ALL D1 suspicions and 2) It would appear like a random, baseless accusation to you all.

I find it ridiculous that you think I've just stood on the sidelines in this thread, I think you're just trying to provoke me. Good try.
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #609 on: June 03, 2012, 02:23:59 am »


I have no clue what his angle is (well, I do. Obtuse.), but I've got other people to watch right now. If he is going to intentionally be confusing, and not try to help, he's not worth my time right now. Unless I can find a role that he could be to explain his actions (and often lack thereof).

When *would* I be worth your time if my only goal was to be intentionally confusing? I'm trying to help by steering the townies away from both Robz and J, both of which are probably not mafia.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #610 on: June 03, 2012, 02:26:20 am »

He could be a lyncher:

 http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lyncher

Perhaps his lynchee isn't a suspect right now, and the more people left in the game, the less likely he is to be night killed. By not making a case against his target, he can wait until a more opportune time to lynch them for the win.

But that's an outside chance at best.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #611 on: June 03, 2012, 02:28:49 am »

Checking in after mage knight failed... that game is LONG with 4 players.

Galzria's defense of RobZ is making me nervous, I know that some of us are n00bs, but frankly the "We're the experienced players and we're so good - so unvote before you have both of us killed" is slightly insulting.

Jotheonah IS Mafia. Volt PROBABLY is Mafia. Robz IS town.

I don't see how any truly town player could make such a confident statement - for sure we don't have anything firm to support an explicit statement of fact.

That said, If Rob + Galzria are mafia - coming to Robz's defense so early in the game seems like a risky play, especially if Robz is confirmed to be Mafia (either by lynching - or power role overnight investigation)

Doesn't seem like overnight lynching is a risk, since Rob seems to have survived the 5 vote - so I"m going to let my vote stand and head off to sleep.  Interesting reading - and I look forward to more in depth perusal tomorrow in advance of the deadline.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #612 on: June 03, 2012, 02:30:04 am »

You're being helpful by trying to get two people you think are likely not Mafia killed.

That would be great and all, if you were also making a case for who IS Mafia, instead of being content to sit back and watch the deadline roll by tomorrow.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #613 on: June 03, 2012, 02:31:27 am »

Sorry, the above was directed at O.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars
« Reply #614 on: June 03, 2012, 02:31:47 am »

To clarify I am indeed waiting for pops to review. And I will say there is no insane cop nor suicide bomber in my proposed set ups. I didn't feel like making people hate the mod :P

No weird, insane roles in this game.

Thanks guise.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #615 on: June 03, 2012, 02:31:59 am »

I find it ridiculous that you think I've just stood on the sidelines in this thread, I think you're just trying to provoke me. Good try.

You were more active earlier on, and you still have had a lot of posts, but it's been little things that have not added up to much. I'm not trying to provoke you, except to action. If you're just not gonna go there, that's your prerogative, but it's not helpful to the town.

But yeah, you're right Galz, I'm not gonna try to get O to do anything if it's just a waste of my time.

+1 for obtuse. ;D
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #616 on: June 03, 2012, 02:36:52 am »

Captain_Frisk nicely put into words some of what I was thinking. Thanks.

Ugh. I guess this is the frustrating part of the game. We are just playing a waiting game to perhaps hear more defenses, to hear jotheonah's roleclaim (not happy about making us wait), and for others who have not made a vote or changed their vote in a while to catch up and weigh in. Is def in the house? Man it's been forever since he posted anything.
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #617 on: June 03, 2012, 02:40:34 am »

Robz->Low suspicion due to bandwagon
Galzria-> medium suspicion, buts makes stupidly authoritative statements (see Captain Frisk's above post)
O-No suspicion
def-Unknown
Dsell-Medium suspicion, tends to bandwagon
Morgrim7-medium suspicion
Eevee-high suspicion, bandwagons, makes incoherent arguments
michaeljb-Unknown
jotheonah-was medium suspicion, bandwagon made me less supicious
Voltgloss-pretty high suspicion due to inane arguments
eHalcyon-Medium suspicion
Yuma-Unknown

Captain_Frisk... Either he's a damn insightful townie with tendencies to agree with me and clear, coolheaded play or he's been trying to recruit me as an ally. Currently the most suspicious person to me who has flown under the radar.

is Captain Frisk Mafia? I'm certainly not as cocksure as Galzria to say he's "definitely" mafia. It's less then a 50% chance IMO that he is. But if he IS mafia... I'm scared for the town. Because I can't see anyone crazy enough but me to really be suspicious of him.



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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #618 on: June 03, 2012, 02:42:53 am »


Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« on: May 23, 2012, 04:12:04 pm »
Quote+2   
THERE WILL BE A DISCUSSION THREAD FOR THIS MAFIA. IF YOU DO NOT WANT OTHERS DISCUSSING THIS MAFIA DO NOT PARTICIPATE. YOU MAY NOT POST IN THIS THREAD WHEN DEAD WE ASK THAT YOU DO NOT READ THIS THREAD WHILE ALIVE THOUGH THIS WILL NOT BE ENFORCED

ALIVE
Robz
Galzria
O
def
Dsell
Morgrim7
Eevee
michaeljb
Captain_Frisk
jotheonah
Voltgloss
eHalcyon
yuma


People who I'd be glad to have on the Townie side:
Captain Frisk
Robz
michaeljb
Morgrim
Michaeljb

People who I think are close to actively harmful if they were town:
Dsell
Galzria
The 3 townies from the end of Mafia II.


The rest I don't have too much of an opinion on
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #619 on: June 03, 2012, 02:55:38 am »

C.F., with all due respect, can you please point me to where I indicated "Robz and I are so good, we're better people to have around"?

I have drawn from my experience and knowledge of being Mafia once, yes. But in no way to belittle the thoughts, feelings, and arguments of others here. I have constantly encouraged out newer players to speak up, and not be intimidated to join in.

I did ask to unvote, because if I'm right, and onto the mafia's trail, then there is a good chance that a Robz lynch results in my death at night.

I am personally rather offended that you would accuse me of belittling anybody. I felt a member of the town was in danger, and I reacted to try and save them. I would do it for anybody here that I felt was in the same situation. I absolutely will not apologize for suggesting that my experiences help me in my determinations.

I was Mafia in M-II. And I will use that in any way I can to find the mafia here. If you don't like my case or argument, that's your prerogative. But I never suggested that I am more valuable, or Robz is, or anybody is, based on experience.

There is only one reason I'm more valuable alive to you than dead: I'm town. I believe Robz is as well. That's 2 votes that help town win. That's 1/5th of our number right now, and I find that damn well worth protecting.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #620 on: June 03, 2012, 02:56:17 am »

O, thanks for posting. Really. I don't really agree with a lot of your conclusions but huh. Something to think about. Did you accidentally type out Michaeljb twice on the "glad if their townie" column or would you be really really happy if he was town?
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #621 on: June 03, 2012, 02:57:31 am »

oops, yes.
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #622 on: June 03, 2012, 03:00:24 am »

Okay, I have a couple things to address. First, Jotheonah:

Ok, well I need to go to bed. I'll be on tomorrow morning and if people want me to full claim I'll do it in the morning. In any event, please afford me the courtesy of staying Vote #7 and allowing me my last words.

Or, alternately, just unvote and don't make this horrible town mistake.

Okay, I want you to full claim. I think it's necessary at this point. In fact, I wish you had simply done it then, because this way it gives the appearance that you are taking the time to think up a suitable cover role. I'm not saying I won't believe you--indeed, I probably will believe you--but this looks much worse to me.

Oh, and we really shouldn't kill Jo, unless his claim is ridiculous or he is counterclaimed. But we shouldn't kill me either!

On to Volt:

The "rebuttal" I'm waiting for is what's alluded to here:

Can you see me doing it because the players who are attacking you are making a convincing argument whereas you are not? Cause that's what's happening...

I hate to leave it like this, I really do, but I have a ticket for a Jonathan Coulton concert and I gotta head out. Back on much later tonight.

Their argument is terrible. Luckily, it will be disproved quite soon.

I assume something further is coming to disprove the arguments against Robz.  That's what I'm hoping to see in the morning.

Unfortunately, all I meant by that was this: I assumed I was going to be killed, and that would disprove the "Robz is mafia" argument. Once I die, you will all see that I am town. But since that's not the explanation you wanted, I'll try to defend myself again anyway.

(I like that you post relevant youtube scenes. If I could, the scene that reminds me most of how you ask me for answers happened on the most recent "Game of Thrones" episode. Lady Sansa asks Joffrey if he will be leading the vanguard in the battle. Joffrey looks around nervously and replies that he is not going to consult battle plans with stupid girls. Sansa replies, "Oh, forgive me, I AM stupid. Of course, you will lead the vanguard, how stupid to even ask!" That's you and me in this game, Volt.)

Grah, forgot something.

Robz, you said that you've been playing "sloppy" if you were Mafia, and asked me if you play sloppy.  The implication, of course, being that because you're playing sloppy, you can't be Mafia.

The problem is that you yourself said you change the way you play with every game. 

You just got done playing a game as Mafia where you were far from sloppy.  Now, you're in a new game.  You're supposedly being "sloppy."  But you change the way you play every game.  So how does that acquit you?  If you were really Mafia again in this game, I think the last thing you would do is play just like you played in M-II.

I'm not saying "you must be Mafia because you're playing differently than M-II."  I'm saying that I don't find comparing your behavior in this game to your behavior in M-II is really all that compelling one way or another.  (I know this is a centerpiece of Dsell's argument.  You'll notice I didn't cite it.  That's because I don't find it compelling.)

Okay, I'll try to defend myself again. First about changing how I play--I don't think I revolutionize how I play every game. And we can't totally control our behavior. In Mafia II, I really tried to control every possible impulse to say things. I think a careful obsverer of I and III will note that I've been faster and looser. But whatever, these comparisons don't help so much. Why I am innocent? Because the case made against me is weak.

Dsell indicated that he was suspicious of me early on, before I had said much of anything. He found my lack of posting disturbing. I've explained numerous times why I didn't post so much, but here it is again 1)There were a lot of other games 2)We had new people and I wanted to let them take the reigns. So I ignored Dsell at first, posting and ignoring him. Well, he brought it up again. So I fired back at him a bit, not really satisfying his question, to see what he would do. I didn't dream that this would turn him to campagin against me, nor that it would convince others I was suspicious. I was certainly too convinced of my invincibility in the first round of this game. I was making every effort to needle and gather suspicions, and refusing to discuss myself much. I didn't bother to explain myself, and this has come back to be a problem.

However, I can't help get the feeling that Dsell was after me the whole time, no matter what I say. Yes, I've heard his explanations for how this turned from slight suspicion to near certainty, but it doesn't make sense to me. It wouldn't, I suppose, since I know am a member of the town. He's either a very mislead member of the town, or a member of the mafia.

Look, I'm sure I don't have satisfactory responses to all questions about what I did this round. I intentionally needled Eevee a bit, and that has caused me to grow suspicious of him--he is STILL downplaying his abilities, even after I called him out for it. And he's a poker player! Not a 12-year-old! He's still suspicious to me. And so are you--although you switching your vote just made things more complicated--and so is Dsell and so is Jo, and... I'm confused this round. I'll admit it. If the members of the mafia were actually Galzria, eHalycon, and Def, it actually wouldn't surprise me at all (just a random three there). Moving on:

Galzria's defense of RobZ is making me nervous, I know that some of us are n00bs, but frankly the "We're the experienced players and we're so good - so unvote before you have both of us killed" is slightly insulting.

Jotheonah IS Mafia. Volt PROBABLY is Mafia. Robz IS town.

I don't see how any truly town player could make such a confident statement - for sure we don't have anything firm to support an explicit statement of fact.

To be fair, I agree that Galzria doesn't know the meaning of the word certainty. He is way to confident about what he actually knows. I don't know at all how he is "sure" Jo is a mafia member. Now it looks like Jo might actually be a power townie, so yeah. That said, I agree with a lot of Galzria's analysis. Just not always his confidence.

So, if Jo is a power townie... anybody want to hop on the Eevee bandwagon? It's not too late... all are welcome...
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #623 on: June 03, 2012, 03:04:35 am »

So we're settling on an Eevee bandwagon Robz? Because even though my random number generator gets knocked down, as a townie the ideal situation is that you select a person and get everyone to bandwagon on them (that minimizes the mafia influence on the voting)

As I'm relatively confident of your town status, I'd be welcome to share that bandwagon campaign with you  ;D
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #624 on: June 03, 2012, 03:11:33 am »

So we're settling on an Eevee bandwagon Robz? Because even though my random number generator gets knocked down, as a townie the ideal situation is that you select a person and get everyone to bandwagon on them (that minimizes the mafia influence on the voting)

As I'm relatively confident of your town status, I'd be welcome to share that bandwagon campaign with you  ;D

Glad to have you aboard! Although I see you are already aboard. I'm not sure you understand how this works. If you could kindly unvote for Eevee, please. I demand it. And then revote, for Eevee. And perhaps other will catch on to the idea and join you. All are welcome.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
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