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Author Topic: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars (GAME OVER, TOWN WINS)  (Read 153673 times)

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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #550 on: June 02, 2012, 06:02:44 pm »

Dsell,, your arguments now are: let's lynch him, and let you die, and then watch two more town go day 2. It's all ok.

No no no no no. Are you willfully misunderstanding me? I specifically said that is the WORST case scenario. I believe Robz is mafia. His own rebuttals convince of that more and more, while your urges that I reconsider are frankly not helping much.

But hear this, Galzria: You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town. (If you were mafia and Robz was town I assume you would have no problem lynching him). Ok, so for now you're town. Please look over what I have said and what Voltgloss has said against Robz. I am not so sure that you have such a good feel for him that you would be able to say absolutely that he is innocent. If he wants to play well as mafia, part of that would be to convince you, his former partner, that he is town. Try to set aside your preconceptions and look at how he's acted in THIS game. How does it look? WHY does it look so very town to you? Just be thinking about this.

And quit trying to whip things into a frenzy. We don't want people to feel panicked and vote because of that. We want people to look at arguments logically and make a decision based on that.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #551 on: June 02, 2012, 06:08:05 pm »

But hear this, Galzria: You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town. (If you were mafia and Robz was town I assume you would have no problem lynching him). Ok, so for now you're town. Please look over what I have said and what Voltgloss has said against Robz. I am not so sure that you have such a good feel for him that you would be able to say absolutely that he is innocent. If he wants to play well as mafia, part of that would be to convince you, his former partner, that he is town. Try to set aside your preconceptions and look at how he's acted in THIS game. How does it look? WHY does it look so very town to you? Just be thinking about this.

I think you are under-thinking things. The mafia could be using--wait for it--complicated strategies where they take the preconceived notions about what mafia would do and use them to their advantage.

"You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town."

Don't you see how he might expect you to think that, and do it anyway?

(Note, I'm not arguing Galzria is mafia--just an example of how your thinking about what the mafia would and wouldnt do is too simple.)
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #552 on: June 02, 2012, 06:14:09 pm »

But hear this, Galzria: You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town. (If you were mafia and Robz was town I assume you would have no problem lynching him). Ok, so for now you're town. Please look over what I have said and what Voltgloss has said against Robz. I am not so sure that you have such a good feel for him that you would be able to say absolutely that he is innocent. If he wants to play well as mafia, part of that would be to convince you, his former partner, that he is town. Try to set aside your preconceptions and look at how he's acted in THIS game. How does it look? WHY does it look so very town to you? Just be thinking about this.

I think you are under-thinking things. The mafia could be using--wait for it--complicated strategies where they take the preconceived notions about what mafia would do and use them to their advantage.

"You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town."

Don't you see how he might expect you to think that, and do it anyway?

(Note, I'm not arguing Galzria is mafia--just an example of how your thinking about what the mafia would and wouldnt do is too simple.)

I'm not clearing him. I'm saying that FOR NOW I will assume he is town so I will talk to him as a town. He has no votes anyway so it's not like he's on the chopping block. I'm not worried RIGHT NOW about figuring out who the whole mafia team is, I'm trying to lynch mafia and work from there. I've said before that I have my suspicions of Galzria. His seeming refusal to budge does not make me less suspicious. But I wanted to talk to him for a minute as a townie, with no suspicion in my voice. We'll see how he reacts.

But don't assume that I'm stupid. K?
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #553 on: June 02, 2012, 06:15:03 pm »

The logical arguments are for Jotheonah, as I laid out. Robz has in fact NOT acted like a Mafia would act this game because he has in fact NOT acted like the Mafia in EVERY OTHER GAME. Are you willfully misunderstanding me?

Your scenario isn't the worst case, it is the likeliest case. Except for one thing. I WON'T die at night. Why prove my point for me? No, they'll let me live, use that to prove I'm wrong, and then turn the conversation elsewhere.

It seems like the only person being willfully blind is you. You're refusing to think anything through, and trying to get people to calmly vote Robz. As I know this is a mistake, I am doing what I can to prevent it. 5 votes is at a very dangerous point. We are about to go into tumble that helps the Mafia FAR more than town.

I don't know what your vendetta against R is, but if the vote goes through, good job hitting town.

As far as Voltgloss goes, a town Voltgloss would not ignore anything. His points are very well made, and I would never, ever expect less from him. You're to busy using what he did say to pound your point that you are again being blind to what he didn't say, and I've already covered that.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #554 on: June 02, 2012, 06:26:42 pm »


2) The biggest lesson for me is "O is a terrible player"


I'll just repeat my Mafia I voting record:

Townie over Town Cop
Mafia Rolecop over Town Cop
Mafia (universal tho)

I also sparked tons of contributions to this thread, whereas you've been nearly entirely silent.

Have you even played much mafia before? It'd be funny if you made such a claim while being relatively inexperienced.

Plus you vote for robz without a real reason to.


Unvote
Vote:Eevee

@J
Though you're being pathetically suspicious there-> claiming 2 people voting on one person is "collusion" when three isn't, demanding explanations that were given alongside the vote anyways.

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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #555 on: June 02, 2012, 06:30:38 pm »

Your scenario isn't the worst case, it is the likeliest case. Except for one thing. I WON'T die at night. Why prove my point for me? No, they'll let me live, use that to prove I'm wrong, and then turn the conversation elsewhere.

It seems like the only person being willfully blind is you. You're refusing to think anything through, and trying to get people to calmly vote Robz. As I know this is a mistake, I am doing what I can to prevent it. 5 votes is at a very dangerous point. We are about to go into tumble that helps the Mafia FAR more than town.

I don't know what your vendetta against R is, but if the vote goes through, good job hitting town.

My scenario didn't hinge on you being killed night one. If you are still around, your case not only becomes stronger but you are still there to argue it! Personally, I would be much more receptive to your way of thinking if things go that way. Right now, my strongest conviction is that Robz is mafia. If I see otherwise, I will have to take another stance.

But you sure seem very confident that Robz is town for someone who supposedly only knows his own role.

So if you are town, you really can't know that Robz is town too (ok I guess outside shot that you two are masons...fwiw I will be awfully suspicious if you claim that now). If Robz is town and you are mafia you probably wouldn't mind hopping on Robz. I dismissed a possible Robz-Galzria connection earlier because you are defending him so fiercely. Suppose you two ARE outplaying me though and this is a double-bluff. Well, Galz can't ignore the fact that Robz is near being lynched. He probably can't hop on the bandwagon and vote fellow mafia off in the first round. But since he can't do that, he has to try to defend Robz, right? Otherwise he has no good excuse for being unwilling to come to a consensus (which he looks so unwilling to do).

I'm NOT saying that Galzria is mafia. I'm doing a thought experiment because Galz and Robz are so kindly prodding me to think a little deeper about the game. I have to go now for a while. Back with more thoughts later.
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #556 on: June 02, 2012, 06:33:02 pm »

Your scenario isn't the worst case, it is the likeliest case. Except for one thing. I WON'T die at night. Why prove my point for me? No, they'll let me live, use that to prove I'm wrong, and then turn the conversation elsewhere.

It seems like the only person being willfully blind is you. You're refusing to think anything through, and trying to get people to calmly vote Robz. As I know this is a mistake, I am doing what I can to prevent it. 5 votes is at a very dangerous point. We are about to go into tumble that helps the Mafia FAR more than town.

I don't know what your vendetta against R is, but if the vote goes through, good job hitting town.

My scenario didn't hinge on you being killed night one. If you are still around, your case not only becomes stronger but you are still there to argue it! Personally, I would be much more receptive to your way of thinking if things go that way. Right now, my strongest conviction is that Robz is mafia. If I see otherwise, I will have to take another stance.

But you sure seem very confident that Robz is town for someone who supposedly only knows his own role.

So if you are town, you really can't know that Robz is town too (ok I guess outside shot that you two are masons...fwiw I will be awfully suspicious if you claim that now). If Robz is town and you are mafia you probably wouldn't mind hopping on Robz. I dismissed a possible Robz-Galzria connection earlier because you are defending him so fiercely. Suppose you two ARE outplaying me though and this is a double-bluff. Well, Galz can't ignore the fact that Robz is near being lynched. He probably can't hop on the bandwagon and vote fellow mafia off in the first round. But since he can't do that, he has to try to defend Robz, right? Otherwise he has no good excuse for being unwilling to come to a consensus (which he looks so unwilling to do).

I'm NOT saying that Galzria is mafia. I'm doing a thought experiment because Galz and Robz are so kindly prodding me to think a little deeper about the game. I have to go now for a while. Back with more thoughts later.

Claiming someone is Mafia day one is unsubstantiated but neccesary. Claim there existed a mafia pair day one... I'm not implicating you at all, don't worry, but the odds just don't support such an unnecessary endeavor.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #557 on: June 02, 2012, 06:36:15 pm »

I am SO tempted to pull an O, and ask Robz if I can lynch him to teach the town a lesson. Except that it's such a terrible idea.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #558 on: June 02, 2012, 06:59:22 pm »

I am SO tempted to pull an O, and ask Robz if I can lynch him to teach the town a lesson. Except that it's such a terrible idea.

Oh, goodness I would understand it. I briefly flirted with pulling a Morgrim (self-lynch). I worry that the best help I can be at this point is to show the town the truth.

I would say with some certainty that 2 of the mafia are among the following people: Dsell, Eevee, Voltgloss, Jo.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #559 on: June 02, 2012, 07:01:28 pm »

This reminds me of a Possession deck. One person plays the Possessions, one person trashes his deck with VP.
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I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #560 on: June 02, 2012, 07:03:34 pm »

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
Current Vote Counts
Robz888 (5) - Dsell, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Voltgloss, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) - Galzria, yuma, michaeljb,
Eevee (2) - O, Robz

Not Voting (3) - def, Morgrim7, eHalcyon

Deadline: June 3, 2012, 11:59pm PDT
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #561 on: June 02, 2012, 07:05:17 pm »

Claiming someone is Mafia day one is unsubstantiated but neccesary. Claim there existed a mafia pair day one... I'm not implicating you at all, don't worry, but the odds just don't support such an unnecessary endeavor.

Hey I'm back for a quick second. I didn't claim a mafia pair. I specifically said I was not claiming Galz was mafia. Simply a thought experiment.

Why are Galz and Robz now flirting with tactics they denounced so strongly before? Just...don't.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #562 on: June 02, 2012, 07:09:21 pm »

Dsell, why do you care if Robz is Mafia?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #563 on: June 02, 2012, 07:10:02 pm »

Claiming someone is Mafia day one is unsubstantiated but neccesary. Claim there existed a mafia pair day one... I'm not implicating you at all, don't worry, but the odds just don't support such an unnecessary endeavor.

Hey I'm back for a quick second. I didn't claim a mafia pair. I specifically said I was not claiming Galz was mafia. Simply a thought experiment.

Why are Galz and Robz now flirting with tactics they denounced so strongly before? Just...don't.

Because its really really fun to self hammer if you're the one doing it.  ;D
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #564 on: June 02, 2012, 07:10:30 pm »

That is, why do you care if I lynch him or he lychees himself?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #565 on: June 02, 2012, 07:16:10 pm »

I'm pretty sure Robz isn't mafia. I'm not too sure about J but he's more likely than R if it comes down to that.

I have my suspicions but will keep mum as it seems unlikely that it will amount to anything
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #566 on: June 02, 2012, 07:17:51 pm »

Truthfully, it doesn't make sense for me to do it. But for Robz it does. If there is one Mafia who isn't voting Robz, they never have to. Either town will lynch him themselves and Mafia get a fresh target day 2, or nobody votes him, and the Mafia get a free night kill.

So Robz can hammer himself to protect a townie from making a target of themselves.

Not that I think he should. But it wouldn't be terrible.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #567 on: June 02, 2012, 07:19:08 pm »

Truthfully, it doesn't make sense for me to do it. But for Robz it does. If there is one Mafia who isn't voting Robz, they never have to. Either town will lynch him themselves and Mafia get a fresh target day 2, or nobody votes him, and the Mafia get a free night kill.

So Robz can hammer himself to protect a townie from making a target of themselves.

Not that I think he should. But it wouldn't be terrible.

Sounds awfully like my discredited logic
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #568 on: June 02, 2012, 07:22:07 pm »

Shush O. ;)

Sometimes things don't make sense until you're presented with the situation. I bow to your lordly knowledge. I was wrong. It isn't a good play, but it's not terrible.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #569 on: June 02, 2012, 08:37:35 pm »

Galzria, how does this fit into your theory?

Vote: jotheonah

Reasoning later when I have time to provide.  Short version:  I floated an experiment, and it had an interesting result.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #570 on: June 02, 2012, 08:43:23 pm »

Fits my first half, but shocks my second. If there's truth or confusion behind your action, I don't know. But I stand behind my belief that J is Mafia.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #571 on: June 02, 2012, 09:00:22 pm »

I'll wait for your post Volt, but I still don't know what to think about you in this game. I never built a case against you, or indeed said much about you because of that. But I feel really strongly Robz is town. And his vote totals were getting uncomfortably high. Add in your very NON Volt like thing to do of not analyzing every little thing before posting, and I grew quite suspicious.

You could still be either, but my day 1 case is for Jotheonah. I stand by it.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #572 on: June 02, 2012, 09:06:32 pm »

That is, why do you care if I lynch him or he lychees himself?

I think it sets a bad precedent. Galz, if you want to vote for him, fine, but I think votes right now should be based on good reasoning. In crunch time, votes should be meant. Anything else seems to only hurt the town.

@Voltgloss, I'm definitely interested in hearing about your experiment.
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"Quiet you, you'll lynch Dsell when I'm good and ready" - Insomniac


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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #573 on: June 02, 2012, 09:09:57 pm »

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
Current Vote Counts
Robz888 (4) - Dsell, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, jotheonah
jotheonah (4) - Galzria, yuma, michaeljb, Voltgloss
Eevee (2) - O, Robz

Not Voting (3) - def, Morgrim7, eHalcyon

Deadline: June 3, 2012, 11:59pm PDT
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #574 on: June 02, 2012, 09:10:49 pm »

That is, why do you care if I lynch him or he lychees himself?

I think it sets a bad precedent. Galz, if you want to vote for him, fine, but I think votes right now should be based on good reasoning. In crunch time, votes should be meant. Anything else seems to only hurt the town.

@Voltgloss, I'm definitely interested in hearing about your experiment.

Read my next post. I wouldn't cast the vote. But if you're so sure he is Mafia you should have no problem with him self-lynching.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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