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Author Topic: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars (GAME OVER, TOWN WINS)  (Read 153798 times)

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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #500 on: June 02, 2012, 12:20:12 pm »

I disagree J. Look at Goober in M-I. Look at bozzball in M-II. Now look at where the Mafia were both games. Your change to def to me reads as a redirect to a target not able to defend himself - just the thing you accused me of doing, except that I have no doubts that you will defend yourself, because you're a present, active player. Def can't, or won't  do that.

You're going after bozzball* (def) here because it's the easy thing to do to move conversation. But that's just my feeling.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #501 on: June 02, 2012, 12:34:38 pm »

I should clarify for those who don't know: Goober and bozzball were both people who contributed a very little, when they could, but were unwilling to devote a lot of time and effort to their respective Mafia games - which is completely fair. They took part when they could, and within the 48 hour minimum. Both were town, not Mafia hiding. All the Mafia so far, in both completed games, have been quite active. There isn't much reason to think that would change here, and going after the quiet ones who won't defend themselves fully because they don't have the time doesn't sit well with me.

I went after J KNOWING that he would defend himself, and I still stand by my beliefs.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

yuma

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #502 on: June 02, 2012, 12:44:28 pm »

After thinking about this last night, reading today's new posts and having a change in real life plans I have come to a decision....

and at the risk of making myself suspicious in Robz's eyes
Remember also that I suspect the mafia might want to vote earlier, rather than later. If you vote early, you CAN switch if you need to, but otherwise you are in good shape not to look bandwagon-y or hammering or whatnot. So it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the early voters as mafia.

I will Unvote and instead Vote: jotheonah. I am still highly suspicious of Morgrim, but I doubt anyone else is going to join me for that vote this round. Secondly, after this post I will be online for ~ 1 hour and then I am gone until Monday. Dinner with the in-laws turned into an overnighter with the in-laws at their cottage. I might be back right before the deadline, but I don't want to make any promises. As such I want to get my vote out there early and make it a vote that can actually accomplish something rather than be dead.

The reason I am voting for jotheonah is not so much Galzaria's post about it, but jotheonahs multiple responses and long winded responses as well as his reaction to CF's comment and his vote for def.

Galzaria's post was long--so having jotheonah write a long response in return isn't very surprising. But his tone and approach seemed defensive and reactionary for just one voter.

His reaction to CF was interesting as it seemed he realized afterward that reacting so strongly was very suspicious. He realized he was trying too hard and as Galzria said, "dialed it back."

As for the vote for def I agree with Galzria that it is an attempt to redirect attention from yourself to someone else. Your reasoning for this vote just isn't good enough to pass.

I may be getting played by Galzria. And with that he has moved up on my list along with Robz and still Morgrim.

If any of you think my vote is a bad idea let me know about it quick, I won't be on much longer, especially as this post took me longer than I anticipated to write.

Status:
Suspicious: Galzria, Morgrim, Robz, Jotheonah
Not suspicious: Michaeljb
Vote: jotheonah
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michaeljb

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #503 on: June 02, 2012, 01:04:39 pm »

Vote: jotheonah for basically the reasons laid out by others, and one snippet from your voting post:

It means the mafia are likely among those who have yet to vote,

The fact that this is strongly emphasized just feels to me like you're trying to drive the town into a frenzy, like how Galzria noted your "exercise" did. Making the point that it's good for the town to vote in a more understated way would have been more helpful, I think.

I'm still definitely suspicious of Morgrim, seems like he's happy to ride with the insanity defense, but like yuma pointed out there looks to be no chance of lynching him today, so voting for him would be just as effective as voting no lynch.
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michaeljb

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #504 on: June 02, 2012, 01:10:00 pm »

*additionally, jtheonah your vote for def I think is going to be as good as voting no lynch, but of course actually voting for someone least does keep you out of the haven't-voted-so-likely-mafia-group you invented.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #505 on: June 02, 2012, 01:15:36 pm »

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
Current Vote Counts
Robz888 (3) - Dsell, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
jotheonah (3) - Galzria, yuma, michaeljb,
Eevee (2) - O, Robz
def (1) - jotheonah

Not Voting (4) - def, Voltgloss, Morgrim7, eHalcyon

Deadline: June 3, 2012, 11:59pm PDT
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #506 on: June 02, 2012, 01:22:34 pm »

Do I really have no votes on me again? What do you guys need me to do??? Roleclaim something that actually might be in the game?
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Eevee

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #507 on: June 02, 2012, 01:26:02 pm »

I feel like such a sheep, everytime someone posts a long, well-written analysis (actually, shorter ones do as well if they are smart enough) as to why someone is likely scum, I feel like "omg that's so correct!!". Makes me wonder how easily I could be (mis)led by mafia as well..
I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.

Btw, I dont mind the long posts at all guys, they feel helpful (even convincing) and you are not just talking in circles but actually getting somewhere with them.

// Haha O, i dont really understand what you are doing.
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #508 on: June 02, 2012, 01:27:49 pm »


I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.


You might want to read up on the end of Mafia II.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #509 on: June 02, 2012, 01:30:02 pm »


I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.


You might want to read up on the end of Mafia II.

I agree. But I'm still town.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #510 on: June 02, 2012, 01:31:52 pm »


I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.


You might want to read up on the end of Mafia II.

I agree. But I'm still town.

Wasn't implicating you. Jus' saying you making long allegedly-helpful posts doesn't disqualify you at all  :P
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Eevee

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #511 on: June 02, 2012, 01:34:11 pm »


I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.


You might want to read up on the end of Mafia II.

I agree. But I'm still town.
Thats just super scary. Wow. Got to take everything with a grain of salt in these games then, uh.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #512 on: June 02, 2012, 01:41:23 pm »

Well I am off.... My vote is going to stay the same. Hope for the best.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #513 on: June 02, 2012, 01:48:12 pm »

Ok, it will likely look scummy, but I will follow michaeljb's advice and join a viable bandwagon.
Robz and O's collusion on Eevee in the face of very little evidence is strange to me. Can you two explain your case a bit better?
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #514 on: June 02, 2012, 01:50:29 pm »

Ok, it will likely look scummy, but I will follow michaeljb's advice and join a viable bandwagon.
Robz and O's collusion on Eevee in the face of very little evidence is strange to me. Can you two explain your case a bit better?

Collusion? What collusion? I voted and then Robz voted after me.
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O

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #515 on: June 02, 2012, 01:51:21 pm »

Addendum: Mostly, why is it collusion when me and Robz both vote for the same person, when theres two other people with 3+ votes on them? Are the 3 people voting on someone not colluding?

Its an inane point.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #516 on: June 02, 2012, 02:53:32 pm »

Okay, having read the recent exchange.... I really don't think Jotheonah is mafia. He seems to tense and angry. I think he would have played things a little closer to the chest if we were mafia. He's gone off on people a bit and... I would expect him to be more guarded. Really, I don't blame him for that "who do you think?" exercise at all. We need to do things like that or else we will have the dreaded "No Lynch," which nobody wants.

Unfortunately, I'm quite worried we're heading into a it's him or me scenario. Yuck.

So, about Eevee:

I feel like such a sheep, everytime someone posts a long, well-written analysis (actually, shorter ones do as well if they are smart enough) as to why someone is likely scum, I feel like "omg that's so correct!!". Makes me wonder how easily I could be (mis)led by mafia as well..
I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.

Btw, I dont mind the long posts at all guys, they feel helpful (even convincing) and you are not just talking in circles but actually getting somewhere with them.

// Haha O, i dont really understand what you are doing.

I am not buying his "aw shucks" routine at all. He is constantly, constantly saying things like he doesn't know what's going on, or is worried about being played, he's new to this, blah blah blah... he is down-playing his skills in every possible posts he makes. And they are silly. And every now and then they are serious. Indeed, he has already voted for me.

Could it be genuine? Sure. But I'm willing to be it's at least partly an act. That's the best lead I have. My only other big suspect is Dsell, but I guess there's a good chance that he is just wrong, wrong, wrong rather than he is mafia. So I would stick with Eevee.

Um, Galzria--can I convince you not to vote for J? You are so sure. I think you're wrong. He's being way too confrontational for mafia.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #517 on: June 02, 2012, 03:10:42 pm »

Robz, consider this: He's only become confrontational since I started getting on him. He was directing things back-scenes before then. And yes, I DO think that "exercise" was a terrible town move, disguised well.

I'm comfortable with my read and vote. Maybe it's unorthodox? But I don't think so. Being my first town game, and after just finishing a Mafia game, his actions strike me as nearly EXACTLY as I would have acted day 1.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #518 on: June 02, 2012, 03:11:53 pm »

But what about Eevee? Do you see what I'm saying? Lalala I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just a cute Pokemon, lalala... and IT'S SUSPICIOUS.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #519 on: June 02, 2012, 03:29:00 pm »

I do agree that Eevee is acting like... Well, exactly like Eevee says, he's being a sheep, not really adding anything new or original. Possible Mafia? Yes, I think he could be. But I think tells like that are dangerous to read day 1.

Not that my read on J isn't dangerous either. But I know J is a smart player. Like I said, I feel MORE inclined to suspect those I feel more comfortable with. The new people, I won't write off, but I have less knowledge to consider a case with.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Eevee

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #520 on: June 02, 2012, 03:39:36 pm »

But what about Eevee? Do you see what I'm saying? Lalala I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just a cute Pokemon, lalala... and IT'S SUSPICIOUS.
Uhm, the nickname I chose when joining this forum has something to do with my status in this game? Feels like some of your accusations dont really have anything to do with how people have behaved in this game.

Idk, I had a lot more confidence in my abilities when the game started (which was probably apparent by my posts as well). You know, I'm used to feeling smart.

When the game progressed, no one ever really said "thats a good point" or anything like that (and no, I dont think I thought of anything genious so not saying someone should have) but rather picked my posts apart saying "thats bad for town" (which isn't too couraging given helping town is all I know I've tried to do). Having this little clue as to who to vote also makes me feel like I'm not playing as well as I hoped before the game. You know, I've just felt a little stupid this whole game.
Fwiw I do know what I'm doing in the sense of "I try to think for as good reasons as possible for all my actions". I think I'm a new player with a somewhat realistic picture of my skill level atm, while before the game I was somewhat overconfident, thinking "how hard can it be".

I feel like me posting _anything_ at all this close to our deadline will only make me a more likely lynching target (especially since I dont have any "evidence" against anyone else - I just know my own role and try to explain my actions) but I have nothing to hide so I guess it's still better to try to explain myself. Robz, try not to make a connection with "how much someone has played &/ if you have played with them earlier / how well you think you are able to read someone" and their role in this game. I dont think choosing the somewhat random first lynch target only amongst the newer players is fair / good.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #521 on: June 02, 2012, 03:58:11 pm »

Popping in for now, and will be gone again soon until (probably) late tonight.

Day 1 is such a rollercoaster already.  Early suspects Morgrim and O are now vote-less, with the town gaze shifting in entirely new directions.

Galzria makes a very convincing post about j, and I actually agree with Robz' assessment of Eevee's "I feel like a sheep" talk.  But the problem is that I have that sentiment as well.  Reading Galzria's big post, I found my suspicions of j growing.  And then reading his defense alleviated that suspicion a fair bit.  So while I find Eevee's behaviour somewhat suspicious, the fact is that I'm the same way so I can't blame him for that.

I actually don't suspect Robz at all right now.  In my opinion, Galzria's points are stronger than j's defense.  I am therefore extremely inclined to vote for j.

Since I'll be away for most of today and my vote would put him at 4 (which could be critical mass?) I'll hold off for now and reevaluate tonight based on whatever new info we have.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #522 on: June 02, 2012, 04:24:19 pm »

I'm going to be on and off today, but obviously I will try to follow this as closely as possible.

As promised, here's a short analysis of how well I think people might be playing if they were mafia:

def: Super hard for me to get a read on, hoping to hear more back. So while I actually doubt he's mafia because of his inactivity, if he were, it is pretty smart. So at this point it would be a good mafia game, but only to get him to day 2.

Michaeljb: Moderately-light participant. He's had some good content but he's been succinct. Aside from Robz' and Galzria's assertions this is where mafia could be hiding, it looks like it would be decent mafia play. Definitely not bringing any strong suspicion down on himself day 1 but I don't think anyone is saying "oh yeah he's for sure town" either.

eHalcyon: Kinda the same boat as Michael, maybe a tad more substance. Decent mafia play but I really don't see it. I get a lot more of a town read on him.

yuma: Again, same boat as Michael. His posts tend to be a little forgettable, which is perhaps just where the mafia want to be day 1. Not really adding a ton to the conversation. It's not so much that it's like...transparently bad mafia play though or anything.

Voltgloss: Aside from being absent some I get a strong town read on him. He seems just very straight-forward, very bright. So if he's mafia, I think he's playing very well.

Eevee: Hmmmm...this is where it gets a little tougher, because he has some votes on him and some arguments against him. I could almost see this one going either way if he was mafia...his innocent newbieish ways are either a really terrible mafia ploy to deflect suspicion (bad mafia play) or a super sneaky mafia double play to look so suspicious that he couldn't be mafia (good but risky mafia play). Personally, I think he's just new. (He? I'm basically using "he" on everyone here, I don't know if it's right or not...)

Jotheonah: I don't see his play as very mafia. I actually agree with Robz, I think he's been somewhat reactionary, and I think a mafioso might be a bit more tempered. I'm also not so sure that his "who would you vote for if you had to vote tomorrow" stunt was such a bad idea because, well, here we are, we have to vote by tomorrow. I think it was a good opportunity for people to get a little more serious and get some suspicions out there. I'm not sure if this all means that he has played well if he's mafia, or if it means he's played badly as mafia. I mean, he has some people who really suspect him and some who really don't. I guess if he's mafia he's been doing ok?

O: It's been said a few times that he could be doing some sort of mafia double-play, making himself look too suspicious to be mafia. I basically agree that this could be the case, so while I tend to think he's town, he would be playing quite well if he were mafia.

Captain_Frisk: I'm not quite sure where I stand on this but I think if he were mafia he would not be playing the best game. He's added a few substantive things but one of the more significant things he's done is vote for Robz after I made a strong case for him. If he were mafia, trying to hop on a bandwagon really early might seem like a good idea, but I'm really not convinced that it is. Sure he'll probably make it through day one, but if he helped to mislynch Robz (I still think Robz is the best person to lynch, I think he's our best bet at getting mafia), I think there would be a LOT of suspicion on him. Because his play would look bad if he were mafia, I think Frisk is town.

Galzria: He's been strong and outspoken. Like he has admitted himself, his "helpfulness," by his own argument, could mean he's mafia. I think that if he is mafia, he's playing pretty well. I don't necessarily get a town vibe from him. But maybe I'm just jaded from his brilliant play in Mafia II.

Morgrim: Who. Knows. Seriously, I get a town read from him but I don't know if I could necessarily tell town Morgrim from mafia Morgrim. I guess I think he would take the game a little more seriously? Etiher way I don't think he's really dangerous or anything so I do NOT think he should be a factor in this weekend's voting.

Robz: Well I'm a little biased. Also, I actually think that I put him on the defensive pretty early in this game, so it probably is harder to get a read on him than others with a fair amount of posts. I personally think his defenses have been unconvincing and have reminded me so much of Mafia II where I suspected him of being mafia from the very start. Yet his other posts and even his defenses more recently (since the end of Mafia II maybe?) have been a little stronger. I think this is quite strong mafia play, and I think he's doing a good job of convincing you all to look elsewhere. I still think Robz is dangerous guys, seriously.

Dsell: Again, biased. But IF I were mafia, I actually don't think I would be playing well. I've taken one of the riskier game plans, going after one of the strongest and most experienced players, who is excellent at defending himself. I started a campaign against him before anyone else had suspected him at all, or even had any reason to suspect him. I could have jumped on Morgrim or O, who have confuzzled a few people, or on Eevee for being "suspiciously newbish" or on def because "we can't reward the non-participants." But no, I jumped on Robz, and have been fairly relentless. Seriously, how bad would that look if I led this whole campaign based on nothing and then we lynched town? Pretty bad. Of course that scenario also works if I'm misguided town (I certainly hope I'm not) but either way that's WAY more suspicion than I would want to put on myself early on if I were mafia.

I hope this helps someone! If you disagree about something, let me know! More discussion is good at this point! It's also getting perilously close to the time when we just really ought to vote, especially because there are likely to be a few people who are going to have to compromise who they think is the best option for someone else just because we really have got to get a lynch.
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"Quiet you, you'll lynch Dsell when I'm good and ready" - Insomniac


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Voltgloss

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #523 on: June 02, 2012, 04:30:11 pm »

Well, it's time to vote for who I think is the most suspicious.  And for me, going everyone's Day 1 behavior, the most suspicious person I see - is Robz

- In post #338, Robz reacted to Dsell's suspicions - which he at first ignored, he admits now willingly - by (1) admitting them and (2) being, in his own words, nasty back to Dsell, claiming Dsell was near the top of his list of suspects.

- In post #375, Robz reacted to Dsell's increasing suspicions by admitting that he (Robz) has been doing the same things he accuses Dsell and Eevee of doing.  And adding that Dsell's "razor-focus" on him was "interesting."

- In post #402, Robz accused Dsell of leading a charge against one of the town's most helpful players (himself).  And said that Dsell's behavior is just how he'd expect a new player to act if he were Mafia.  And added that, if he (Robz) were Mafia, he wouldn't act the way he described Mafia should act.

- In post #426, Robz said he changes his play style each game.  He also accused Dsell of trying to preemptively weasel out of responsibility for/wash his hands of mislynching Robz.

- Finally, in post #471, Robz lays out the case for Dsell and Eevee.  He suspects Dsell because:

  • Dsell suspects him;
  • Dsell "pre-emptively defend[ed] himself in case of a mislynch.  Everybody remember that?"; and
  • Dsell is worried Robz will falsely roleclaim.

He suspects Eevee because:

  • Eevee joined the Robz-vote bandwagon before Robz had time to make his full analysis post; and
  • Eevee has made a variety of silly, "I'm new," and substantive posts.

He votes Eevee explicitly because there is already a vote on Eevee.

So, why do I suspect Robz?

  • He responded to Dsell's mild suspicion, first by ignoring it; second by being nasty back; and third by attacking him in return.
  • He has not fairly met Dsell's core criticism:  that Robz is acting exactly like he says the Mafia would act.  Robz admits this, but asserts it doesn't matter, because why would he act like he says the Mafia would act?  But this devolves into WIFOM* that I don't find compelling:  Robz himself laid out those criteria, and could just as well be a Mafia acting in accordance therewith so he could claim (as he has) that he can't be Mafia or he wouldn't have laid out those criteria.
  • His insistence that he is one of the town's most helpful players and so shouldn't be lynched.  But he hasn't been helpful;  he's been (in his own words) nasty, needling, and accusatory towards those who have dared to suspect him.
  • His accusation that Dsell tried to preemptively defend himself in case of a mislynch.  "Everybody remember that?"  Actually, no, Robz, I don't.  I remember you characterizing one of Dsell's posts as that, and I remember Dsell rebutting your characterization as inaccurate.  And I definitely do not remember you fairly meeting the substance of his rebuttal.  Or meeting it at all, in fact.

Robz says of Dsell, "he has a Robz888 focus and as Robz888 I don't get it."  As someone who is NOT Robz888, looking at their discussion from the outside, I do get it.

And finally, here's the clincher, from Robz's most recent post about Eevee:

But what about Eevee? Do you see what I'm saying? Lalala I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just a cute Pokemon, lalala... and IT'S SUSPICIOUS.

I don't recall Eevee saying he's "just a cute Pokemon."  I do recall someone saying it, though.

haha trying my best to be insightful and smart and coming out as silly, thats painful to hear :D

You are insightful. I meant that you are insightful and a little silly, which strikes me as mafia. But it could be that I am exaggerating how silly you are because you are a cute Pokemon.

Robz is accusing Eevee of doing something that, in fact, Robz himself did.

Vote: Robz

---

*WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me.  See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

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Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #524 on: June 02, 2012, 04:43:10 pm »

Well, I'm sorry for you, Voltgloss. Well articulated arguments and eventually votes against Morgrim, Kuildeous, Insomniac, and now me. You are about to be 0-4, my friend.

Substantive rebuttal to follow.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
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