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Author Topic: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars (GAME OVER, TOWN WINS)  (Read 153848 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #425 on: June 01, 2012, 01:34:18 pm »

Seconded. We have two days til the deadline. Robz, some responses from you have been requested.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #426 on: June 01, 2012, 04:05:31 pm »

Okay, here are answers to the several posts that raised questions about me since last I posted.

From Dsell:

You are good at choosing a target--I believe you chose me in post #304, long before I did any of the things you found suspicious, except for not posting enough--and then building a case against him. The thing is, you've been so direct with it, I'm a little baffled. I would expect the mafia not to show so much decisiveness in leading the charge against somebody. However, I would also not expect a town member to lead a decisive charge against a veteran who is one of the town's most helpful players (indeed, you have some evidence of my helpfulness at this point--look at Mafia I, where as the Jailkeeper, I was largely responsible for the deduction that got the town to lynch Axxle, the final mafia).

You are right and you are wrong. In post #304, I chose you intentionally, but I did not assume you were mafia at that point and did NOT have in mind to frame you as mafia. As town, that is pure stupidity without real evidence. But I only made that post because of Jotheonah's prompting. I thought his way of sparking discussion was a good idea so I figured I would play along, so I aired my very mild suspicion of you. The main reason I did it though, was to try to shake you up like you so often do in other games...it's a strategy I like. I wanted to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction you would give, because hey, it usually ends up being helpful information. And for me, it was! You reacted in what I perceive to be a fairly mafia way: not responding at first, making an insubstantial post as well as a more substantial one in which you laid out your perceptions (which included some veiled suspicion cast on myself and eevee) while not really giving us all that much to go on.

I don't think that's a mafia-ish way to respond. I think a mafia-ish way to respond would be to launch into an essay on why I was not actually suspicious. Because I have nothing to hide, I didn't care to respond to every little needling of me. That might be hypocritical--I'm needling people, and looking for their responses--but I don't care. My idea this round was to say less than usual, because I'm one of the louder players and a two-game veteran, and I didn't want to dominate the conversation, specifically because there were so many new voices. I was looking to stir the pot and not really say much about myself. Of course you have had other designs for me, so now I must defend myself in extended fashion.

So, no, when I first cast suspicion on you, it was very mild suspicion because you didn't seem to play quite the same way as in the other games. All of your subsequent responses, however, have made you look more and more like mafia.

I try to switch up my play in every game, but I think it's fair to say that my play so far in this game is much more similar to Mafia I, where I was the Jailkeeper than in Mafia II, where I was the Mafia Rolecop. My analysis of my own play is that I tend to filter my comments much less when I am a townie. Let me explain: in Mafia II, I would write a whole post and then delete it before posting it. I did this probably a dozen times. I was being so careful about what I said. Every word was danger. I didn't do that at all in Mafia I, and I haven't done that in Mafia III. Not being more careful about what I say has brought a lot of suspicion on me, I see that now, but if I were the mafia I would have been more careful. Since I am not the mafia, I have not been careful.

The thing that keeps getting me is that you're right. You WERE so helpful in Mafia I, even beyond being randomly assigned jailkeeper. You aggressively went after who you perceived to be mafia (even if you were wrong the first couple times) and were a shining champion for the town. You were very helpful. But in this game, you haven't seemed very pro-town at all. You aren't exactly anti-town, more like just there. Unhelpful. Contributing, but not much. Maybe it's only that it's day 1 and you haven't had much to go on but like we are all realizing we HAVE to vote soon. And still you are unsure. The only thing that is certain is that you're gonna be a nice guy and not vote Morgrim.

Well, I was helpful in Mafia I in the following ways: I thought the bandwagon against theory was very wrong (and I was correct), and I figured out who the other mafia was going into the last round, blocking his kill. But I was wrong about TINAS in rounds 1 and 2. I have not yet formed strong suspicions, so I was sitting back, and needling. I actively went after Morgrim in game 2, remember, because I was the mafia.

There are more players in this game, and two of them stand out as crazy: O and Morgrim. Going after the crazy people has not yet yielded a mafia kill in the first round. Therefore, I do not think Morgrim is the mafia. O's "kill myself" thing has greater potential to be some sort of higher strategy, in my view, than Morgrim's craziness. Which is why I am still suspicious of O. But, like, just a little bit.

I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what. But I think the town does worse than random by killing me, Jotheonah, Galzria, or Voltgloss, in absence of extreme suspicion.

"I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what." But we would be so foolish not to try! Saying, "the town has no real chance of hitting mafia anyway so protect me!!" is the kind of just really unhelpful thing that seems so uncharacteristic of Town Robz. I would be very sad if an experienced town or certainly a town role were lynched, but you haven't done much this game to persuade me that we really really need you around.

I still think we are unlikely to kill a mafia member this round. The other 2 games failed to do so: in this game, it will be harder. I didn't say we shouldn't try. And I do think I am worth protecting. I will be valuable to the town next round. If you don't think you need me, it hurts my feelings I suppose. Perhaps the town would be better off without you, though, since you are barking up the wrong tree!

But you seem to have extreme suspicions of me for... playing the way I told you the mafia would play? But then if you think I am mafia, why wouldn't you think I would lie to you about how the mafia would play?

You really can't lie about the way that mafia play because you've said similar things in the other games. Lying about that would be more incriminating than...well, hanging around in the background, like you were trying to do.

If I turn out to be wrong and lead your lynch and you turn out to be a townie, that would be very unfortunate. And I would expect a lot of suspicion to be cast on me, rightly so. But I trust that my posts thus far and future posts will be clear, well-reasoned, and show my support for the town.

Well, I really, really don't like you trying to weasel out of your responsibility for this, because you are wrong. To be honest, you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.

Next, Volt:

And I am also hoping you can answer a couple of questions below, regarding this comment you made in #338 when responding to Dsell's suspicions voiced in #304 (after his request you do so in #325):

And... you are near the top on my list of suspicions, as you seem to have guessed. Your posts nicely fit the model I outlined, with a mix of serious and then taking-it-back plus humor and emoticons. Frequent but not too frequent.

- Why did you think Dsell "seem[ed] to have guessed" that you suspected him?
I phrased it that way to be sort of a purposefully nasty retort to him, to see what he would do. It doesn't make much sense in any context. He suspected me before I suspected him. And I didn't even particularly suspect him until his most recent statements. I wanted to see how he would react.

- Which posts of Dsell's fit the model you outlined in #324?

Here is one:

What's this?! We were having a perfectly lovely conversation about avatars and begging for twigs, and now people are suddenly calling for a hanging??  :o  What a mad world we live in!

Seriously though, I'm glad to see more substantive posts! I do hope we can hear a little more from the quieter ones, and it doesn't seem to me like throwing a couple votes out early is putting us in too much danger of an early hammer. It seems like a terribly obvious mafia move to throw 2 or 3 bandwagon votes on a person in the first round to bring the hammer down. Nobody wants to actually lynch right now, we just want strong reactions. And strong reactions are good because a mafia player might be more likely to slip if they have to really defend themselves.

The mafia face an early game dilemma. What to say? They have to say SOMETHING. It can't be total nonsense or overly serious, so they say something like this. Note: This is how I would expect a new player who is the mafia to post. It's not how I would expect Voltgloss, if he were mafia, to post.

- You say Dsell was "near the top" of your suspicions list.  That suggests he was not AT the top.  Who was?  Are they still there?  If not, what has changed?

The amount of suspicion separating the person I most suspect (Dsell, now), from the person I least suspect (Morgrim) is not big. I would not vote this weekend if we didn't have the deadline approaching. And by the way, I didn't notice the deadline until yesterday. Before, Dsell was just one of a couple new players who I could see being mafia, with Eevee, Captain Frisk, michaeljb, etc. His campaign against me did not start to make me suspect him until this most recent post of his, where he's already trying to wash his hands of mislynching me.

Robz, I trust you won't take this inquiry personally.  I do agree that, if you are Town, you're a great asset to the Town.  The flip side of that is, if you are Mafia (or SK), you could be the Town's worst nightmare.  So I'm hoping your responses allay my concerns, because I really don't like the alternative.

I am taking it personally within the context of the game of Mafia, where I think I am both very useful and not very suspicious. I'm not, like, real-life taking it personally, of course not. And I certainly used and abused your trust in Mafia II, so on one hand I sort of understand your suspicion, but not really other people's at this point.

Next, Jotheonah:

Ok, I've been looking back at Robz's posts. I am going to agree with a lot of what has been said.

I'll add that twice now (first in his "Stalwarts" section and later in his defense) he's tried to lump me, Galz, Volt, and him together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables.  I think he's hoping we'll come to his defense, and to somehow tie himself to whatever pro-town sentiment the rest of us has. As "O" has repeatedly pointed out, our status as helpful townies is very much in question given the disastrous outcome of our game. So the "don't lynch these helpful townies" angle rings hollow.  Excluding a large group of people from your suspect pool off the bat for largely irrelevant reasons is anti-Town. With Volt, I await your responses.

"Tried to lump... together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables" is exactly what I was doing. If one of you were giving me a strong mafia read, I would obviously not do that. But since I don't have particular reasons to suspect you more than others, I would rather keep all of you around. I know how you play, and will be better able to evaluate you next round then I will eHalycon or Eevee or yuma. And that's a good thing for me and for the town. And in fact I MUST "exclude a large group of people from your suspect pool," because there are so many people. Excluding large groups of people on the slimmest of reasons is unfortunately a necessary feature of round 1. I mean, come on, nobody has particularly good reasons for anything round 1. In the other two games, three people--theory, TINAS, and Morgrim--faced round 1 lynch wagons, and none were mafia. Doesn't that tell you something?
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #427 on: June 01, 2012, 04:25:46 pm »

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
Current Vote Counts
Morgrim7 (2) - O, yuma
O (1) - eHalcyon
Robz888 (2) - Dsell, Captain_Frisk

Not Voting (9) - Robz, def, Eevee, michaeljb, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Galzria, Morgrim7
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #428 on: June 01, 2012, 05:15:58 pm »

Well, I really, really don't like you trying to weasel out of your responsibility for this, because you are wrong. To be honest, you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.

His campaign against me did not start to make me suspect him until this most recent post of his, where he's already trying to wash his hands of mislynching me.

Before I do anything else, let me address probably your biggest charge against me, that I am already trying to wash my hands of mislynching you. I was speaking in hypotheticals. The only thing that I know for certain in this game is that I am town. Any of the rest of you could be mafia. Most other people (besides the mafia) will be in this same boat. So everything is in hypotheticals really. I'm not trying to cover myself, I'm not trying to wash my hands of this lynch: I think you are the most likely mafia. Based on the evidence so far, I believe that is the best conclusion. There's obviously the possibility that I'm wrong, I was acknowledging that. Only the mafia can be certain of the roles of other players.

To be honest, you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.

I disagree that I am playing like you in Mafia II. There are 2 key differences (and I'm sorry to those of you who aren't familiar with Mafia II): I have been very vocal and laid out clear reasons for why your behavior seems mafia, and not just "strange." (Which was one of the primary reasons for why Morgrim was killed, and Morgrim has been acting in some similar ways here.) Building from that, the 2nd key difference is Morgrim's strangeness. He confused a lot of people in Mafia II and Robz really wasn't the first one to raise suspicions. In particular, Voltgloss gave the first serious vote to Morgrim and Robz hopped on the bandwagon after. By contrast, it seems that I was the first to pick up on some of Robz' behavior which bothered me, though it was not widely realized nor has it bothered people greatly. Why, if I were mafia, would I "choose a target" whose behavior did not seem highly suspicious or obnoxious? I could easily have campaigned against O or Morgrim, whose behavior fits those descriptions much better than Robz'.

Now that Mafia II is over, I can reveal that in Mafia II, I suspected Robz of being mafia from very early on. It was for virtually the same reasons as here: he played very differently from Mafia I, was less helpful to the town, and seemed to be playing it much more safely. Voltgloss noticed this same thing almost immediately when Robz did not come out guns blazing like he said he tends to do.

I believe that despite what Robz is saying, he is in fact playing very much like he was in Mafia II, where he was a mafia Rolecop. Here is a comparative quote to illustrate that idea:

(From Mafia II, bold emphasis mine)
On comments that I am playing differently because I didn't come out of the gate swinging as hard as in the other game:
That's a fair observation. I'm actually glad to whoever made it. We have to be vigilant for suspicious things like that. I don't know if my explanation will satisfy you, but I did do a couple posts at the beginning to try to stir the pot, though not quite as strongly as last game... and then I went to sleep. And I just woke up. I am on Eastern Time. Generally available between noon and 5:00 PM, gone until midnight, back online until 3:00 AM, and up around noon. I'm a journalist, so that's my schedule.

(From this game, emphasis mine)
Yes, I am doing many of the things I said to look out for. I'm glad you noticed. I mean that sincerely.

Ok so this isn't completely damning but he pretty clearly has had *very* similar reactions in the face of accusations. Much of his other behavior has been similar as well.

Also notice that in the first quote he had been accused of not playing as hard and not posting as much. These both can be easily explained because he was mafia. Like he said above: "in Mafia II, I would write a whole post and then delete it before posting it. I did this probably a dozen times. I was being so careful about what I said. Every word was danger." So, fewer posts and less brazen. The same can be true here, although we do have more players and other games were going on. Whether that is a legitimate/convenient excuse, I will not try to convince anyone one way or another.

The comparisons do not end there but I don't want this to become a novel-writing game like Mafia II was. One final thing I will say though, is that in Mafia II, Robz falsely roleclaimed. If he is mafia and if it is looking like he is going to be lynched, I expect him to roleclaim here as well. This does not mean we should proceed with the lynch necessarily...that will be a tricky issue that I think we should deal with when we get there...but I urge all of you to move quickly to avoid any eleventh hour situations where we simply can't get enough people online to perform a lynch.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #429 on: June 01, 2012, 05:25:51 pm »

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
Current Vote Counts
Morgrim7 (2) - O, yuma
O (1) - eHalcyon
Robz888 (2) - Dsell, Captain_Frisk

Not Voting (9) - Robz, def, Eevee, michaeljb, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Galzria, Morgrim7


Reading Robz's post, I see alot of "I'm a good player so don't lynch me", as well as descriptions of what mafia play looks like - but nothing that's very helpful.  I'm having a tough time accepting this view of clearly mafia or clearly town play - since mafia would clearly go out of their way to appear town.

What I find interesting here is how we have votes on 3 people - 2 "crazies" and RobZ - and yet there is not even a hint of bandwagoning.  If RobZ was town, wouldn't at least 1 of the 3 Mafia's be trying to get in on this early?  I suppose this puts suspicion on Dsell and I, but it seems like the lobbying should be harder if we had picked town.

This has me thinking RobZ or DSell + (?) Morgrim.  RobZ because there seems to be no interest in voting for him, and DSell for starting the crazy defense of Morgrim and redirecting us to RobZ.

I'm not confident enough (nor do I think it is possible be on Day 1) to go and spearhead a lynch, but I am 100% confident that no lynch is worse.  I'm leaving my vote for now.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #430 on: June 01, 2012, 05:31:40 pm »

This has me thinking RobZ or DSell + (?) Morgrim.  RobZ because there seems to be no interest in voting for him, and DSell for starting the crazy defense of Morgrim and redirecting us to RobZ.

Unless you are talking about how I said that Morgrim's behavior in Mafia III is similar to his behavior in Mafia II, I didn't start the "crazy" defense. In fact, I believe it was Robz...*goes to check* yeah it was Robz. I do think it's fair to say that his behavior is very similar to how it was in Mafia II. I don't think this clears him, by any means, but it also doesn't make me particularly suspicious of him.

There is a perfectly good explanation for Morgrim's behavior: He is crazy. Not mafia, not townie, not special role, just crazy.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #431 on: June 01, 2012, 05:38:55 pm »


There is a perfectly good explanation for Morgrim's behavior: He is crazy. Not mafia, not townie, not special role, just crazy.
Hahaha! Ah, well, :P
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #432 on: June 01, 2012, 05:41:18 pm »


Next, Jotheonah:

Ok, I've been looking back at Robz's posts. I am going to agree with a lot of what has been said.

I'll add that twice now (first in his "Stalwarts" section and later in his defense) he's tried to lump me, Galz, Volt, and him together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables.  I think he's hoping we'll come to his defense, and to somehow tie himself to whatever pro-town sentiment the rest of us has. As "O" has repeatedly pointed out, our status as helpful townies is very much in question given the disastrous outcome of our game. So the "don't lynch these helpful townies" angle rings hollow.  Excluding a large group of people from your suspect pool off the bat for largely irrelevant reasons is anti-Town. With Volt, I await your responses.

"Tried to lump... together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables" is exactly what I was doing. If one of you were giving me a strong mafia read, I would obviously not do that. But since I don't have particular reasons to suspect you more than others, I would rather keep all of you around. I know how you play, and will be better able to evaluate you next round then I will eHalycon or Eevee or yuma. And that's a good thing for me and for the town. And in fact I MUST "exclude a large group of people from your suspect pool," because there are so many people. Excluding large groups of people on the slimmest of reasons is unfortunately a necessary feature of round 1. I mean, come on, nobody has particularly good reasons for anything round 1. In the other two games, three people--theory, TINAS, and Morgrim--faced round 1 lynch wagons, and none were mafia. Doesn't that tell you something?

This (bolding is mine) makes a certain amount of sense. But we should remember that one key thing the mafia are doing at this stage of the game is making allies among the town, if they're smart. Having even one friend among the town will be life and death for them later on, and the earlier those friendships start the stronger they'll be. Look how Galz played me in MII! (And then turned around and said I was playing him!)
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #433 on: June 01, 2012, 05:46:38 pm »

Unless you are talking about how I said that Morgrim's behavior in Mafia III is similar to his behavior in Mafia II, I didn't start the "crazy" defense. In fact, I believe it was Robz...*goes to check* yeah it was Robz. I do think it's fair to say that his behavior is very similar to how it was in Mafia II. I don't think this clears him, by any means, but it also doesn't make me particularly suspicious of him.

It is true that you didn't use the exact term "Crazy", but you did start the defense in a much more polite manner. 

Not to unduly bring up the other game, but Morgrim's actions so far aren't seeming too dissimilar from Mafia II in which Morgrim was wrongly mislynched on day 1 because of his...unorthodox posting.


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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #434 on: June 01, 2012, 05:51:31 pm »

Captain_Frisk, I guess what I would say is that Morgrim's behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was a townie, so I'm not too worried. Robz' behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was mafia, so I'm much more worried. That alone neither clears Morgrim nor does it completely incriminate Robz, but it is a cause for suspicion.
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #435 on: June 01, 2012, 05:52:42 pm »

*Cough* Ahem! No hard feelings on that I hope J? ;) Even though I really DO suspect you this game, it's for entirely different reasons.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #436 on: June 01, 2012, 05:55:42 pm »

You veterans are really tearing into each other, wow.  :o

@Galzria, why do you suspect J?
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #437 on: June 01, 2012, 05:56:20 pm »

Hard feelings? Nah. Going to feel very much like being your friend this game? Doesn't look good. (But then, you don't seem that interested, so maybe that's just fine).
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #438 on: June 01, 2012, 05:57:51 pm »

You veterans are really tearing into each other, wow.  :o

@Galzria, why do you suspect J?

I'm very curious of this too. At this point I think all suspicions need to be spelled out so we can make the best decision in a timely manner.
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #439 on: June 01, 2012, 05:59:03 pm »

Captain_Frisk, I guess what I would say is that Morgrim's behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was a townie, so I'm not too worried. Robz' behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was mafia, so I'm much more worried. That alone neither clears Morgrim nor does it completely incriminate Robz, but it is a cause for suspicion.

Agreed.  My suspicion of you is purely based on the fact that in any voting, I expect the mafia to try to at least get one of their votes in early (so as to not go for the 5,6,7 hammer powerplay).  Since I know myself to not be Mafia, there is a chance that you are - and if so - anything you do is suspicious (clearing Morgrim, suspecting RobZ). 

That said, I still this ghost town of a thread suspicious that the Mafia is looking for nolynch today.

Note - I am having real life gamers in town this weekend, and will not be posting alot between Noon Saturday and Sunday afternoon (Eastern Time).
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #440 on: June 01, 2012, 05:59:17 pm »

I will repeat again Dsell (but only this one last time): Having been Robz's teammate in Mafia-II, his actions here read MUCH different. In M-II he made the first real accusation of the game (against Morgrim). He then continued to pound relentlessly, ntpicking over THE MOST minor things. Yes, Volt cast the first vote, but Robz drove the bandwagon, even if he hadn't voted yet.

Could he be Mafia here? Sure. But NOT for the reasons you're making against him.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

jotheonah

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #441 on: June 01, 2012, 06:01:39 pm »

I will be pretty busy and out and about all weekend. I will certainly check in before the deadline and if a suspect has emerged who seems scummy enough to me I will cast whatever vote I can to minimize the chance of us not lynching.

I certainly hope to be on more than that, but just so you know, worst case scenario, plan on me having a voting presence.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #442 on: June 01, 2012, 06:05:41 pm »

I have a theory for why there is little posting right now.  At least in my case, it is a little intimidating watching you guys dissect the posts of your former Mafia groups using knowledge from those games.  I'm guessing few of us followed those other games closely so it is difficult to weigh in on whether (for example) Robz is acting like he did in Mafia II.  Or if he isn't, as Galzria now asserts.  That kind of analysis is important, but it can only really be done well by you veterans.  The rest of us pretty much have to watch and hope you don't lead us astray.

I don't think I am dedicated enough to go back and read Mafia I and II indepth, but if you guys post links to specific posts ("look at these similar plays") then I would read those.
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Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #443 on: June 01, 2012, 06:05:47 pm »

I will repeat again Dsell (but only this one last time): Having been Robz's teammate in Mafia-II, his actions here read MUCH different. In M-II he made the first real accusation of the game (against Morgrim). He then continued to pound relentlessly, ntpicking over THE MOST minor things. Yes, Volt cast the first vote, but Robz drove the bandwagon, even if he hadn't voted yet.

Could he be Mafia here? Sure. But NOT for the reasons you're making against him.

You do make a good point here. Let me think about it some. There ARE similarities though, in addition to this difference. Another difference is that obviously I have put him on defense here, and he really didn't need to defend himself at all on day 1 in Mafia II. But I'll consider. And re-read. (And be waiting for any other suspicions that people have...now is the time to hear them!)
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #444 on: June 01, 2012, 06:10:55 pm »

The analysis is pretty useless, actually. Anyone who plays Mafia one way every time and Town another way every time is a terrible mafia player, and we can't deduce all too much from looking at Robz past roleclaims


>MFW I did identical things as townie.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #445 on: June 01, 2012, 06:14:56 pm »

I have a theory for why there is little posting right now.  At least in my case, it is a little intimidating watching you guys dissect the posts of your former Mafia groups using knowledge from those games.  I'm guessing few of us followed those other games closely so it is difficult to weigh in on whether (for example) Robz is acting like he did in Mafia II.  Or if he isn't, as Galzria now asserts.  That kind of analysis is important, but it can only really be done well by you veterans.  The rest of us pretty much have to watch and hope you don't lead us astray.

I don't think I am dedicated enough to go back and read Mafia I and II indepth, but if you guys post links to specific posts ("look at these similar plays") then I would read those.

I agree, and the truth is, there's just as much to be gained from how people argue their points HERE, even if they USE information from other games. I don't *at all* expect people to go back and read those games. If I make an assertion about how a player acted, I fully expect that some people will believe me just because, some people will not let it alter their opinions, and some people will agree/disagree based on what they read/saw. I'm fine with that. Every new voice added, regardless of any knowledge of past behavior, is relevant and welcome. So please don't feel intimidated by references to past games. If you feel like reading up on them, great. And if not, that's great too.

For my part, I will use anything I can to determine my suspects. That's just the way I am. I expect each player to use what they feel comfortable with, and won't hold anything against someone for choosing not to use information that wasn't 100% contained within this game. I WILL hold something against someone for ignoring information contained within this game though. Fair warning.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Dsell

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #446 on: June 01, 2012, 06:30:05 pm »

I have a theory for why there is little posting right now.  At least in my case, it is a little intimidating watching you guys dissect the posts of your former Mafia groups using knowledge from those games.  I'm guessing few of us followed those other games closely so it is difficult to weigh in on whether (for example) Robz is acting like he did in Mafia II.  Or if he isn't, as Galzria now asserts.  That kind of analysis is important, but it can only really be done well by you veterans.  The rest of us pretty much have to watch and hope you don't lead us astray.

I don't think I am dedicated enough to go back and read Mafia I and II indepth, but if you guys post links to specific posts ("look at these similar plays") then I would read those.

I agree with Galzria's statement above: it's fair game, so use it or don't, it's up to you. The truth is, my argument against Robz is not merely that he is playing the same way as in the last game (or different from Mafia I for that matter). I noticed that pretty quickly, though, which is why I tried to get more information out of him in the first place. That information, though, is what made me more suspicious and is what led to my vote.

I have outlined some of my issues with his actions in this game though already in #341, #373, and #396, as well as...a lot of my posts since page 13 in some way or other.

O, it's fine if you don't want to accept that analysis. I agree that it's silly to play the same way every time. But I'm not sure that looking for similarities is as futile as you're suggesting. Who are you suspicious of?
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #447 on: June 01, 2012, 06:40:48 pm »

Who are you suspicious of?

Morgrim, obviously. [/troll]

I was suspicious of Robz but am no longer suspicious of him anymore than other players. I can't really name anyone in particular who stands out, actually. I'm not quite sure what eHalycon's reason for voting for me is, but its probably just that I annoy them. Not really an indicator of Mafia or Town tho.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #448 on: June 01, 2012, 06:48:17 pm »

Who are you suspicious of?

Morgrim, obviously. [/troll]

I was suspicious of Robz but am no longer suspicious of him anymore than other players. I can't really name anyone in particular who stands out, actually. I'm not quite sure what eHalycon's reason for voting for me is, but its probably just that I annoy them. Not really an indicator of Mafia or Town tho.

I voted for you because of your self-lynch comment.  I just can't see it being a good townie play at all (doing it, or just threatening it).  I actually think you're pretty entertaining in this game so far!  I think someone in this game commented earlier that you were similarly erratic early in Mafia I.  Is that true?
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Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« Reply #449 on: June 01, 2012, 06:53:53 pm »

Who are you suspicious of?

Morgrim, obviously. [/troll]

I was suspicious of Robz but am no longer suspicious of him anymore than other players. I can't really name anyone in particular who stands out, actually. I'm not quite sure what eHalycon's reason for voting for me is, but its probably just that I annoy them. Not really an indicator of Mafia or Town tho.

I voted for you because of your self-lynch comment.  I just can't see it being a good townie play at all (doing it, or just threatening it).  I actually think you're pretty entertaining in this game so far!  I think someone in this game commented earlier that you were similarly erratic early in Mafia I.  Is that true?

I did the same random-vote thing. I also campaigned HARD for lynching Theory (a vanilla townie) over TINAS (the town cop), and then Ozle (the Mafia Rolecop) over TINAS (still the town cop, unsurprisingly), and on the third day voted for the second mafia.

If you read the mafia I quicktopic it's rather hilarious; everyone assumed me and TINAS were a mafia pair because I defended him so much, when we were Vanilla Townie/Town Cop
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