Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: automatch keeps trying to match the same players  (Read 7926 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rattenversammlung

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« on: July 11, 2011, 02:09:08 pm »
0

hi!

I really like the automatch function, but occasionally it keeps trying to pair me
with the same player, even if he/she declines 3 times, 4 times, ...

Could the automatch function be changed in a way that 3 declines in a row by
the same 2 players do not lead to a 4th matching of the same players?

Some people just don't want to play each other, maybe because their level is
too different, or because they just dislike each other's behavior.
Logged

Superdad

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 02:27:08 pm »
0

Indeed, this happened to me a bunch of times yesterday. I got matched with the same person, who declined 5-6 times in a row.
Logged

ShuffleNCut

  • Coppersmith
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 46
  • Respect: +8
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 09:49:23 pm »
0

You are the only ones in the auto match queue.  They don't want to play you but are too stubborn to wait a minute before rechecking the 2Player box again after declining.

(I think that's what's happening; not 100%)
Logged

rls22

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 01:44:38 pm »
0

I tend to think that the person who keeps declining should uncheck the darn box for 20 seconds and let their potential opponent get matched with someone else.  But, I think automatch should be for people who are open to accepting most games (if you have too many constraints about cards or levels of players you don't want to play with, then just propose a game).
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 02:48:26 pm »
0

I often refuse multiple games but only because a certain opponent refused one with me first. If you don't want to play random with me, you don't want to play with me at all. That's how I see it.
Logged

Nitsuj

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 03:05:15 pm »
0

I often refuse multiple games but only because a certain opponent refused one with me first. If you don't want to play random with me, you don't want to play with me at all. That's how I see it.

+1
Logged

dan11295

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2011, 03:46:37 pm »
0

 Every once in a while I get a player you either declines repeatedly gives no reponse, or they insist on playing with sabetour, possession, (insert random annoying card), or a hand-picked set. If this happens I simply take off the auto-match for a minute then try again.
Logged

krawhitham

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 05:38:33 pm »
0

Every once in a while I get a player you either declines repeatedly gives no reponse, or they insist on playing with sabetour, possession, (insert random annoying card), or a hand-picked set. If this happens I simply take off the auto-match for a minute then try again.

I find it amusing that the people who use auto match for its intended purpose (a random game against a random person) are the ones who take the time to uncheck the boxes and wait rather than the people who cherry pick card sets/opponents.

If you don't want random then don't use automatch.
Logged

Toblakai

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 08:18:06 am »
0

I accept the auto match suggestion no matter what the rank of the player is.   However I don't play any unregistered players.  If it tries to match me with the same unregistered player 4 times in a row I un-check the auto match wait 30 sec and try again.  No big deal but I wouldn't mind a option to only be matched with registered players.
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 08:30:48 am »
0

I accept the auto match suggestion no matter what the rank of the player is.   However I don't play any unregistered players.  If it tries to match me with the same unregistered player 4 times in a row I un-check the auto match wait 30 sec and try again.  No big deal but I wouldn't mind a option to only be matched with registered players.

Have you tried checking the box that only matches you against logged in players? It says "registered players only" and does exactly what it says.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 08:36:46 am by Thisisnotasmile »
Logged

Axe Knight

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Respect: +25
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 08:58:27 am »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).
Logged
An Axe Knight draws near!  Command?

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 11:09:25 am »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).
Actually your possession declines aren't obvious to me - I don't get why people dislike the card more than your average alchemy card, curse-giver, or masquerade, really - but then, a lot of people feel the same way you do, so there must be something that I just don't understand. But also I don't think declining low-levels is all that great either. If I'm automatching, I always hit accept, unless the guy has not accepted a couple times and I'm trying to move on and get matched with someone else. If I care about levels, I go with the proposal system that was all we had and seemed to work well for so long. If your logic for 'what you have to lose' against 'what you have to gain' were followed by everyone (to an extreme), nobody would play, because the higher person always has more to lose. To a less extreme extent, it would simply make everybody play against those near them, but that degrades the experience somewhat for everyone. We all started at level 0. And if the rating system works like it should, it actually shouldn't matter who you play against, you'll expect to get the same rating adjustment (0) out of everything.
By the way, what's your cut-off for 'low level games'?
Also, I want to make clear that I'm not trying to say that you are at all wrong in what your doing, just that I don't think it's the best policy.

rspeer

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
  • Respect: +877
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 11:58:32 am »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).

If you're talking about TrueSkill level, it isn't really true that you have "more to lose than gain" by playing any particular player. Sure, you might lose and your skill number might go down by X. But, as the likely stronger player, it's about twice as likely that you'll win and your skill will go up by X/2. If your level accurately represents your ability, your expected value is unaffected.

If you're talking about the time you stand to lose by playing an uninteresting game, though, I understand where you are coming from.
Logged

KMueller

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 01:08:49 pm »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).

I do think 2 changes would make the automatch more useful/interesting:

a) If a player declines twice in a row, that particular match-up is not proposed again. (Or, if they do not respond with 20-30 seconds, they are removed from the queue.)

b) An option for registered players to be matched with players that are +/- 5 levels. So a Level 12 would be matched up with anyone from 7-17. I guess this would decrease the speed in which you were matched up, but then if that upset you,  you could simply uncheck the box.  I just threw out the value +/- 5, perhaps +/- 10 would work better, who knows.
Logged

livious

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 01:27:19 pm »
0

I switched from mostly proposing games with the highest ranked player available to mostly auto-matching awhile ago and my ranking actually went up a bunch after that.  I don't know if that's just a coincidence or I got better or the TrueSkill calibration isn't quite right or if I just have a particular talent for noob bashing...
Logged

Axe Knight

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Respect: +25
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 01:40:57 pm »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).
Actually your possession declines aren't obvious to me - I don't get why people dislike the card more than your average alchemy card, curse-giver, or masquerade, really - but then, a lot of people feel the same way you do, so there must be something that I just don't understand. But also I don't think declining low-levels is all that great either. If I'm automatching, I always hit accept, unless the guy has not accepted a couple times and I'm trying to move on and get matched with someone else. If I care about levels, I go with the proposal system that was all we had and seemed to work well for so long. If your logic for 'what you have to lose' against 'what you have to gain' were followed by everyone (to an extreme), nobody would play, because the higher person always has more to lose. To a less extreme extent, it would simply make everybody play against those near them, but that degrades the experience somewhat for everyone. We all started at level 0. And if the rating system works like it should, it actually shouldn't matter who you play against, you'll expect to get the same rating adjustment (0) out of everything.
By the way, what's your cut-off for 'low level games'?
Also, I want to make clear that I'm not trying to say that you are at all wrong in what your doing, just that I don't think it's the best policy.

rspeer is actually on the right track.  I'm not on isotropic solely to be a levelbator (my term, sorry).  I'm more on isotropic because I like Dominion a lot, more than any other game I play, and I'm trying to get better at it.  Right now I'm probably good, short of very good, far short of great (I seem to bounce around the low 20s), and there is much room for improvement.  I think it's more likely I'm going to get there playing against higher competition.  I'm not saying some people at Level 0 don't have solid games, I'm just saying that I find that the higher the level I play, the more likely I'll think, "Oh, I've never seen that done before."  So you can see that taking my "logic to the "extreme" is different than what you thought it was.  And I agree, if everyone was just concerned about dropping, and took what you're saying to the extreme, then yes, there'd be little variance in skill level between opponents.
Logged
An Axe Knight draws near!  Command?

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 01:50:18 pm »
0

I really, really, really, really, really wish there was a constraint for automatch that was something like, "Only players between Level X and Y."  I almost always decline low level games because I have far more to lose than gain by playing them.  The only card I refuse to play with is Possession for reasons I don't think I need to explain.  If I'm getting too many of them, I'll leave the queue and simply propose a game (which people are less likely to accept, it would seem).
Actually your possession declines aren't obvious to me - I don't get why people dislike the card more than your average alchemy card, curse-giver, or masquerade, really - but then, a lot of people feel the same way you do, so there must be something that I just don't understand. But also I don't think declining low-levels is all that great either. If I'm automatching, I always hit accept, unless the guy has not accepted a couple times and I'm trying to move on and get matched with someone else. If I care about levels, I go with the proposal system that was all we had and seemed to work well for so long. If your logic for 'what you have to lose' against 'what you have to gain' were followed by everyone (to an extreme), nobody would play, because the higher person always has more to lose. To a less extreme extent, it would simply make everybody play against those near them, but that degrades the experience somewhat for everyone. We all started at level 0. And if the rating system works like it should, it actually shouldn't matter who you play against, you'll expect to get the same rating adjustment (0) out of everything.
By the way, what's your cut-off for 'low level games'?
Also, I want to make clear that I'm not trying to say that you are at all wrong in what your doing, just that I don't think it's the best policy.

rspeer is actually on the right track.  I'm not on isotropic solely to be a levelbator (my term, sorry).  I'm more on isotropic because I like Dominion a lot, more than any other game I play, and I'm trying to get better at it.  Right now I'm probably good, short of very good, far short of great (I seem to bounce around the low 20s), and there is much room for improvement.  I think it's more likely I'm going to get there playing against higher competition.  I'm not saying some people at Level 0 don't have solid games, I'm just saying that I find that the higher the level I play, the more likely I'll think, "Oh, I've never seen that done before."  So you can see that taking my "logic to the "extreme" is different than what you thought it was.  And I agree, if everyone was just concerned about dropping, and took what you're saying to the extreme, then yes, there'd be little variance in skill level between opponents.


That's fine, but actually even if you took your approach to the extreme, nobody would play each other. The higher-level players also want to improve, and they would think there's more chance of them doing that by playing up than down. Thus, nobody wants to play down, and so nobody plays.
About improving, I think your argument is pretty good, but I actually also learn quite a bit from playing really really weak players. I also think that looking for something you've never seen before is the wrong approach to trying to approve 90% of the time in this game. Most of the most powerful strategies are actually pretty simple.

Axe Knight

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Respect: +25
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 02:03:22 pm »
0

That's fine, but actually even if you took your approach to the extreme, nobody would play each other. The higher-level players also want to improve, and they would think there's more chance of them doing that by playing up than down. Thus, nobody wants to play down, and so nobody plays.
About improving, I think your argument is pretty good, but I actually also learn quite a bit from playing really really weak players. I also think that looking for something you've never seen before is the wrong approach to trying to approve 90% of the time in this game. Most of the most powerful strategies are actually pretty simple.

Well then, if you look at it that way, let's hope no one takes my idea to the extreme then.  I certainly don't.   ;)

I agree that the universal strategies are probably more important in the long run than the minutiae, but I'm NOT just playing just from the standpoint of seeing things I haven't.  I'm just saying it's an added bonus, and from the experience since I've adopted the policy, I would say I've improved greatly from concentrating on better competition. 
Logged
An Axe Knight draws near!  Command?

guided

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 940
  • Respect: +94
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 02:40:17 pm »
0

Unless there are just no suitable opponents around, I don't propose to anyone under level 20, because I mostly want to be playing high-level games for reasons of my own enjoyment and edification. But I'll accept an invitation from any registered player.
Logged

rattenversammlung

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 07:17:37 pm »
0

There is alao the problem of newly registered players with lots of rl dominion expeirence.
Level 0 with 500 games tells you something about that player's skill, but
Level 0 with 5 games does not.
You might just got paired with a good player that was newly registered.

So in addition to setting level constraints for possible opponents,
constraints about played games (e.g. minimum of 100 games) might come in handy.
Logged

painted_cow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
  • Respect: +20
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2011, 10:53:01 am »
0

Unless there are just no suitable opponents around, I don't propose to anyone under level 20, because I mostly want to be playing high-level games for reasons of my own enjoyment and edification. But I'll accept an invitation from any registered player.

When I want a 1on1 game I also seek opponents above 25 (number decreasing, when not many players available). But when I want to play some 3-player games you only can go automatch, and therfor get some unexperienced players. Imo it isnt too bad, even if the games arent all highskilled, you lose a fair amount and learn more.
Logged

ackack

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Respect: +19
    • View Profile
Re: automatch keeps trying to match the same players
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2011, 11:05:02 am »
0

I switched from mostly proposing games with the highest ranked player available to mostly auto-matching awhile ago and my ranking actually went up a bunch after that.  I don't know if that's just a coincidence or I got better or the TrueSkill calibration isn't quite right or if I just have a particular talent for noob bashing...

Yeah, I had a similar experience.

I'm in the "I'll play whoever shows up on automatch unless they decline the first game" camp.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.052 seconds with 21 queries.