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Author Topic: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website  (Read 152568 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2012, 01:51:27 pm »
0

Maybe Shelter can upgrade into other VP (think along the lines of the naming).  Similarly, VP could downgrade into Ruins.
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Grujah

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2012, 02:06:51 pm »
+2

So, Ravine, Illiteracy, Beggar, Barbarians and Plague are new cards?

I guess it also means a card that says:

Something - reaction
something something..
-----
If you trash this card, AWESOME EFFECT.

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pingpongsam

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2012, 02:19:16 pm »
0

I'd be unpleasantly surprised if a card allows for gaining cards from the trash pile.

I am ok with something akin to a phil stone that counts the trash pile or the number of different types of cards in the trash pile but I like the explicit what goes in the trash stays in the trash rule.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 02:25:34 pm »
+1

I'd be unpleasantly surprised if a card allows for gaining cards from the trash pile.

I am ok with something akin to a phil stone that counts the trash pile or the number of different types of cards in the trash pile but I like the explicit what goes in the trash stays in the trash rule.

The thing about cards that do things you don't like is that most games, they don't show up, so it doesn't matter all that much. And in the games it shows up, you can live with it. Eventually, you might actually grow to enjoy it. I was upset when VP tokens showed up, because I liked the idea that it should hurt you to get VPs too early, and felt that something like Monument shouldn't be a good opening card. But now I'm okay with it.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2012, 02:28:04 pm »
0

And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2012, 02:43:55 pm »
0

And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.

According to the card text this is technically true although I perceive it as being intercepted on the way to the trash.

I have a distaste for rules evolutions that challenges my established perceptions and that the cards found in the trash are inaccessible qualifies as an established perception. My feeble mind prefers for rules evolutions to enhance the existing ruleset not overturn them.
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Gansura

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2012, 02:50:33 pm »
+2

Thematically, Ruins sounds more likely to be a victory card worth 0 VP. Ruins are structures that used to be worth something. I'm thinking this would create room for a card, like saboteur or a reverse expand, that exchanges a victory card with one worth fewer VPs. Destroy a a Duchy into an Estate and then destroy an Estate into a Ruins.

Making this a victory-type card that costs zero rather than a new type, like confusion, would create some interesting interactions with Silk Road, Trade Route, etc.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 02:51:01 pm »
+1

And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.

According to the card text this is technically true although I perceive it as being intercepted on the way to the trash.

I have a distaste for rules evolutions that challenges my established perceptions and that the cards found in the trash are inaccessible qualifies as an established perception. My feeble mind prefers for rules evolutions to enhance the existing ruleset not overturn them.
You don't like it when it matters that you don't understand the rules? Seriously, this does not overturn the existing rules, it makes use of them.

ftl

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2012, 02:51:51 pm »
0

One of the major problems with gaining from the trash is that usually, the trash has nothing of value, but this set apparently has a focus on "upgrading" and so will have, I bet, a lot of ways to trash cards, making the trash more usable.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2012, 02:52:36 pm »
0

Really excited to see what shelters are as they can replace estates (they obviously dont have to because that would be a rules change, or maybe they have a prosperity rule attached to them or a young witch rule attached to them)

It would have to be a Prosperity/Alchemy/Young Witch type rules change I think. It alters your starting deck, so that's a rules change. The only question is, do you use it only when a specific card is out (Young Witch) or do you use it whenever you are playing with Dark Ages (Prosperity)?
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Davio

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2012, 02:56:38 pm »
0

Really excited to see what shelters are as they can replace estates (they obviously dont have to because that would be a rules change, or maybe they have a prosperity rule attached to them or a young witch rule attached to them)

It would have to be a Prosperity/Alchemy/Young Witch type rules change I think. It alters your starting deck, so that's a rules change. The only question is, do you use it only when a specific card is out (Young Witch) or do you use it whenever you are playing with Dark Ages (Prosperity)?
Maybe a lot of cards in Dark Ages warrant a setup change like Alchemy does.
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Higara

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2012, 03:09:17 pm »
+1

Oooh, the name Shelter might imply a refuge from the attack cards that surely run rampant in this set. But how to make a reaction card balanced if it's in your starting deck? Maybe something like:

Shelter
Cost: 2
Victory/Reaction
0 VP
------
When another player plays an Attack card,
you may reveal this card from your hand and
trash it
. If you do, you are unaffected by
that Attack.

It would at least allow decks to get on their feet a little bit before the full force of attacks comes to bear.
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jonts26

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2012, 03:11:04 pm »
0

Ok I have an idea for ruins/shelters. I'm sure it needs balancing and has wording issues but here it is:


Barbarians  $4
Action - Attack
Each other player gains a ruin card.
-------
Set up: Each player substitutes shelters for their starting Estates. Include the Ruin and Shleter cards in the supply.

Ruin  $0
Type ????
During your clean-up phase, if this is the first ruin you discarded, put it on top of your deck.

Shelter $2
Action
+1 Action
You may reveal a Ruin card from your hand. If you do, return it to the supply.

EDIT: or maybe if you don't want to make shelter an action have it activate when you discard it from play, like ruin.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 03:14:16 pm by jonts26 »
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Grujah

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2012, 03:13:42 pm »
0

Traderish card:

Scrap Dealer
Action - Reaction
Action - something something
Reaction - When you would trash a card, you may reveal this card from hand. If you do, gain a copy of that card instead.

Now that you be super-awesome!  ;D
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chwhite

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2012, 03:14:35 pm »
0

I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG.  Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.

RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP

You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it?  Gotta take a Copper!  You've got 2 buys and $7?  Take a Ruins and a Province!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2012, 03:18:39 pm »
0

I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG.  Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.

RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP

You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it?  Gotta take a Copper!  You've got 2 buys and $7?  Take a Ruins and a Province!

I've seen a similar idea before, but I think it was worded as:

Cost: $0
[random effect or penalty or something]
When you gain this, +$1, +1 Buy.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2012, 03:19:08 pm »
0

I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG.  Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.

RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP

You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it?  Gotta take a Copper!  You've got 2 buys and $7?  Take a Ruins and a Province!
I doubt you can print that, given the existence of bridge and highway. If I play a highway, it tells me that cards can't cost less than 0. Does that make this thing more expensive?!

I do expect decently much there to be a reaction to you trashing something. And I definitely expect something, probably a reaction, to, say, react to cards entering the trash, i.e. "If a card enters the trash, you may discard this card and gained the trash card in hand" or more likely "If a card would enter the trash, you may trash this to gain that card instead". Eh, something along those lines.

Grujah

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2012, 03:22:49 pm »
0

I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG.  Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.

RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP

You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it?  Gotta take a Copper!  You've got 2 buys and $7?  Take a Ruins and a Province!

I've seen a similar idea before, but I think it was worded as:

Cost: $0
[random effect or penalty or something]
When you gain this, +$1, +1 Buy.

Think Duchess was supposed to be similar. Thing is, you can empty this pile and get +10$ in a single turn. Pair it with Watchtower..
I like jont's idea actually.
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qmech

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2012, 03:25:24 pm »
0

I think this sort of mechanic is plausible for accessing the cards that you can only get via other cards.  I guess for theming purposes it would have to be restoring things rather than being trained up.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2012, 03:42:29 pm »
0

Ooohh, info on Dark Ages.
I doubt Shelter has a Moat ability. That would make early cursers much weaker. Think... that would be like Estate as the bane for YW. Opening with a curser would be next to useless.
Ruins... an alt curse, no doubt. Possibilities...
Anyone consider more non-Curse hybrids? Victory/Attack?

More Prizes? That would make Tournament more exciting. And then there is the possibility of a whole new type all together...
By the way, do we have an exact date for Dark Ages yet? Still sometime in August?
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rinkworks

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2012, 04:11:25 pm »
0

Isn't Feast a card that upgrades itself?

I think I'm intrigued by this "cards that upgrade themselves" idea the most (well, next to Shelters).  I had thought of the idea of a card that changes when you play it, but I hadn't gotten anywhere with it.

I have to say, though, I'm astonished at the themes for this set, particularly since they're for such a large set.  I'd never have thought there was enough juice in the upgrading idea to be a theme to a whole set, because I can't imagine how many ways you can upgrade cards that we don't already have.

Similarly, as one who has preached against "retrieve from the trash" fan cards, I'm astonished that the trash will suddenly matter now.  Of course, nothing says we'll get "retrieve from the trash."  And if we do, I'm sure it'll be done in a very careful and clever way that circumvents the much-discussed problems.  Actually, if we're about to get a couple dozen trashing/upgrading cards, it'll severely reduce the main problem, which is that cards in the trash are trash.   Just the same, I think it more likely the trash theme cards would be things like Treasures and Victory Cards whose value varies depending on what's in the trash.

Super excited now.
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jonts26

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2012, 04:17:13 pm »
0

Just because the theme is upgrading/trash doesnt mean all the cards have to be on theme. I mean, seaside's theme is next turn, but that only really applies to maybe half of the cards in the set.

Also I trust Donald to handle the trash in a well done manner. Just because most fan cards have done it poorly doesn't mean it can't be done. And if the set introduces new mechanics, that could help circumvent some of the issues as well.
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tlloyd

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2012, 04:29:32 pm »
0

Thematically, Ruins sounds more likely to be a victory card worth 0 VP. Ruins are structures that used to be worth something. I'm thinking this would create room for a card, like saboteur or a reverse expand, that exchanges a victory card with one worth fewer VPs. Destroy a a Duchy into an Estate and then destroy an Estate into a Ruins.

Making this a victory-type card that costs zero rather than a new type, like confusion, would create some interesting interactions with Silk Road, Trade Route, etc.

I'm feeling mighty vindicated in my fan-cards:

Revolutionary
Type: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Effect:
“Each other player reveals cards from their deck until they reveal a Victory card, which they return to the supply. In exchange they gain a cheaper Victory card or a Curse, plus one Estate.”

Witch Doctor
Type: Action – Attack
Cost: $6
Effect:
“+2 Cards. Choose one: Trash any number of Curses from your hand, gain 1VP (token) per curse   
                                 OR
                                 Each other player -1VP (token) and gains a Curse.”

Magician
Action - Reaction ($4)
"Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card with equal or lower cost."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When a card is placed on a pile, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard it. If you…
-Trashed a card, gain it (to your Discard pile)
-Gained a card, place it on your deck
-Placed a card on your deck, place it in your hand"

Just swap in "Ruin" for "Curse" in Revolutionary and and they go perfectly with what little we know about Dark Ages.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 04:31:58 pm by tlloyd »
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clb

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2012, 04:35:19 pm »
0

Isn't Feast a card that upgrades itself?

I thought I read in Donald's explanation of the card origins that Feast had come from another deck where he was trying to do "one-shot" cards. This sounds to be along those lines - trash this card, gain a different card. Trash that card, gain a third, ultra-powerful card, or something like that.
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ehunt

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Re: Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2012, 04:36:17 pm »
0

I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG.  Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.

RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP

You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it?  Gotta take a Copper!  You've got 2 buys and $7?  Take a Ruins and a Province!

in other news, trader moves higher on the list of power fours.
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