Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

This is my first “article,” so here goes... I love this combo, and I am sure other skilled players have used it, but I haven’t seen it mentioned much here: Watchtower/University...



A skilled player laughs when his opponent, who just reshuffled, buys a $5 card over a much-needed Duchy at the end of the game. Why? Because he is never going to see that card again. Decks brimming with expensive Actions and Golds don’t win games; Green wins games. Dominion is all about tempo--most of the time, you want $5 actions and Golds, and then you want Provinces and Duchies, and then the game ends.

This is why it’s generally faster to buy the cards you want rather than to buy other cards that will eventually gain cards that aren’t even that great. Concordantly, Workshop is terrible, and Ironworks is mediocre. University is better in the sense that it can gain useful $5 cards, but its awkward cost means it’s essentially more expensive than the cards you want to gain with it. At some point, the University player’s superior rate of card-gaining will kick in, but it won’t be in the critical early stages of the game. Unless the $5 card benefits from University’s extra actions--like Torturer--you really are better off reaching for those $5s with a Silver/Silver-equivalent opening rather than a Silver/Estate-equivalent opening.

Watchtower, however, massively tips the scales in favor of pursuing Universities. Watchtower’s reaction ability can place the cards you gain with University on top of your deck. Since University is a village that doesn’t increase your hand-size, you can then play Watchtower to draw the card you just gained (and a few others, too), and play it. Being able to immediately play gained cards--Wharfs, Markets, Highways, Laboratories, Witches, Governors, Torturers, etc.--is a huge advantage. Additionally, the extra draw from University--and presumably from some of the cards you are gaining--will cycle your deck faster, allowing more playing of Universities, and more gaining of useful cards. Your opponent may get a few $5 cards (and Golds) faster than you, but with Watchtower and University, you will catch up very, very quickly.

Watchtower/Potion is the opening here. The best case scenario is drawing them together with CCE, buying University, and putting it on top of your deck for dramatically accelerated gaining. But if that doesn’t happen, Watchtower’s draw ability at least improves your odds of picking up a University before the first reshuffle. As the game proceeds, you should buy a University whenever you have a Potion, racking up probably 3 or 4 of them. You will also want a comparable number of Watchtowers.

That’s really all there is to it. Other Potion-cost cards make the combo more appealing, of course, by giving you something else to buy if you tire of Universities. Since you’ll be overloaded on Actions and moving through your deck rapidly, the option of grabbing Possessions or Golems or Vineyards is a huge plus.

Finally, if there aren’t many good $5 or $4 Action cards, this is obviously a combo to avoid. But the presence of Watchtower makes University much less avoidable than it usually is, because you will actually get to play that last $5 Action card before the game ends!

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120402-211639-3af45fa6.html
Here is a game where Watchtower/University gets me 5 Colonies and 8 Great Halls in just 15 turns. Neither of us played perfectly, but it's clear that Watchtower/University allows for a killer engine here. On Turn 8, I gain an Upgrade, a Great Hall, and 4 Highways.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120516-112615-69a32b25.html
And here is a more recent game where Watchtower/University allows me to overcome my opponent, who got a scarily strong 5/2 start with Governor/Duchess. (Opening 4/3 against a 5/2 Governor opponent is often GG.) Notice that I still lose the Governor race 4 to 6, but the fact that I can use my Governors quicker than he can gives me an edge. Also, notice what I do on the final turn. I need the last Province, but only have $5 in hand, plus University and Watchtower...


--
Edit 1: Added Vineyards to the list of other Potion cards with which this works.
Edit 2: Added sample games.

[CoheedandCambria]

This combo seems pretty strong to get an engine deck going faster. Do you have any sample games that show it off?

[Powerman]

I just played one with this combo!  It worked incredibly well.  Also on the board were Rabble, Bridge, City, etc.  Ended in 3 piles in 12 turns.

[eHalcyon]

There is an article on University-Library.  If all three were on the board, what would make you choose Library or Watchtower over the other?  Or might you go for both?

[Robz888]

There is an article on University-Library.  If all three were on the board, what would make you choose Library or Watchtower over the other?  Or might you go for both?

I am not a great Library player, but I would think you might want either just Watchtowers, or both. The "putting it on top" part of Watchtower is just so useful here. Now, Library could certainly be one of the $5 you aim to gain with University. Of course, if you draw it in to your hand with Watchtower, you are already going to have quite a large-ish hand, so Library might not help there, exactly. But I would tend to think mixing in a Library or two, possibly on turns where you don't have Watchtower in hand with University, could work.

This combo seems pretty strong to get an engine deck going faster. Do you have any sample games that show it off?

Sure, I will add some.

[gorgonstar]

If your opponent is trying to give you curses, then watchtower is better than library.  Library is also $5, so usually you will want to get something better with $5. 

[eHalcyon]

If your opponent is trying to give you curses, then watchtower is better than library.  Library is also $5, so usually you will want to get something better with $5.

The Curse situation is a very good point.

The cost of Library is not a big deal because you can pick it up with University itself, and it combos with University very well.  Watchtower does as well, but with 1 card less and without the ability to set aside drawn Actions.  So Watchtower can't stop itself from drawing additional Watchtowers, whereas Library can set those aside and draw more useful cards instead.

I suppose Watchtower would be favourable if there is Cursing or if there is some neat topdecking tricks in the kingdom.  Library might be nicer if there are a few terminal power cards that you want to overload on?

[heatthespurs]

If your opponent is trying to give you curses, then watchtower is better than library.  Library is also $5, so usually you will want to get something better with $5.

The Curse situation is a very good point.

The cost of Library is not a big deal because you can pick it up with University itself, and it combos with University very well.  Watchtower does as well, but with 1 card less and without the ability to set aside drawn Actions.  So Watchtower can't stop itself from drawing additional Watchtowers, whereas Library can set those aside and draw more useful cards instead.

I suppose Watchtower would be favourable if there is Cursing or if there is some neat topdecking tricks in the kingdom.  Library might be nicer if there are a few terminal power cards that you want to overload on?

If we consider the drawing power in general, Library is no doubt much better than Watchtower. Though I believe the beauty of this combo is being able to draw the 5-cost card immediately after you gain it via University, and then also play it immediately. Using Library-University, you have to wait for a full reshuffle before using the newly gained card. It is still a great combination, but it only fulfills half of what Watchtower-University can achieve here.

[WanderingWinder]

I think in at least a large chuck of the cases, if all are available, you want to go for the watchtower early on, and maybe pick up some libraries later.
The cost is actually an important factor for the libraries though, because, yes, you can use university to gain them, but if your big university target is library... you probably shouldn't be going for this. And if your big target ISN'T library, you probably don't want to spend much time gaining them.

[tlloyd]

Excellent article, but please don't make me explain again why this is nonsense:

Since University is a village that doesn’t increase your hand-size, you can then play Watchtower to draw the card you just gained (and a few others, too), and play it.

And please explain what you mean by this:

Additionally, the extra draw from University . . . will cycle your deck faster

And I know the combo is University/Watchtower, but I think the potential with Vineyard deserves more attention:

Other Potion-cost cards make the combo more appealing, of course, by giving you something else to buy if you tire of Universities. Since you’ll be overloaded on Actions and moving through your deck rapidly, the option of grabbing Possessions or Golems or Vineyards is a huge plus.

Not only are Vineyards a nice use of your Potions after you have enough Universities, but your Universities should guarantee a massive amount of actions and thus make the Vineyards your #1 source of VPs. This is another example of how Watchtower and Library have different strengths. A Library can allow you to skip past your mountain of action cards and find the Potion quickly, allowing you to consistently buy Vineyards. The Watchtower, on the other hand, allows you to buy additional potions late in the game and place them immediately on your deck for slightly-delayed Vineyards.

[WanderingWinder]

Excellent article, but please don't make me explain again why this is nonsense:

Since University is a village that doesn’t increase your hand-size, you can then play Watchtower to draw the card you just gained (and a few others, too), and play it.

That's not really nonsense. Just, the 'not increase your handsize bit is probably not relevant/needs the explanation of 'even if you've already drawn up to $6 with a previous watchtower'. But it does let you draw and play the card immediately. And that is a really important part of the combo.

And please explain what you mean by this:

Additionally, the extra draw from University . . . will cycle your deck faster

I'm sure he means that you will cycle your deck faster (than if [the university] were an unplayed card).

And I know the combo is University/Watchtower, but I think the potential with Vineyard deserves more attention:

Other Potion-cost cards make the combo more appealing, of course, by giving you something else to buy if you tire of Universities. Since you’ll be overloaded on Actions and moving through your deck rapidly, the option of grabbing Possessions or Golems or Vineyards is a huge plus.

Not only are Vineyards a nice use of your Potions after you have enough Universities, but your Universities should guarantee a massive amount of actions and thus make the Vineyards your #1 source of VPs. This is another example of how Watchtower and Library have different strengths. A Library can allow you to skip past your mountain of action cards and find the Potion quickly, allowing you to consistently buy Vineyards. The Watchtower, on the other hand, allows you to buy additional potions late in the game and place them immediately on your deck for slightly-delayed Vineyards.

I actually think it needs less attention, because then the combo isn't really university watchtower, but university/vineyards. For which watchtower is quite nice but really not that important.

[chwhite]

In general, I prefer Watchtower over Library.  Library draws one more card, and can set aside unwanted Actions, but:

a) setting aside Actions is rarely all that useful in these sorts of decks,
b) Watchtower's Reaction is not just important for Attack defense, but the top-decking accelerates you, and
c) it costs $2 less, making it MUCH easier to build up.

Obviously if you're gaining most of your actions with University, then point #3 is a lot less germane, and maybe you do want to pick up a couple Libraries instead if you don't specifically need Watchtower's defense.  But generally I'll get the Watchtower first because of both the price and the top-decking, and in most of these sorts of combos I'll just keep buying Watchtower instead, using the savings to get more Villages and buys and income.