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[AJD]

Here is a list of action cards. What one other action card can be added to the list to make it complete?

Library
Outpost
Secret Chamber
Tactician
Watchtower

The answer isn't Treasure Map, but it gets an honorable mention.

(I hope I haven't forgotten any.)

EDIT: And also Prince!

[WanderingWinder]

Royal Seal?

Edit: put in spoilers.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what the criteria are, my answer just seems to fit in a certain sorta vague way.

[AJD]

WanderingWinder, your guess isn't an action....

[WanderingWinder]

Oh right, it says action cards.
Duh.

[david707]

Is it Cellar? I think it's a list of action cards that draw  cards without saying + X Cards.

[Tiger]

Secret chambers says +2 Cards iirc, and Tactician says "... If you do, next turn, +5 Cards ..."

[Thisisnotasmile]

Counting House

Edit: The reason is that they are all Action cards which do nothing (/very little) extra when Throne Roomed or King's Courted (although Library and Watchtower technically draw one extra card when TR/KC'd because you play one more card and thus have 1 less in hand).

[AJD]

Thisisnotasmile: correct!

The exact stipulation is that if you throne room or king's court them, nothing new happens on the second (or third) time you play them that you couldn't have already accomplished the first time. Under this description, Library and Watchtower fit exactly.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Yep, I thought of that reason after I'd posted mine, but I figured it was close enough that you'd accept it anyway.

Nice puzzle!

[Kirian]

Embargo, Feast, and Island all have this property as well.  In all cases, the card has disappeared before the second action has taken place.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Embargo, Feast, and Island all have this property as well.  In all cases, the card has disappeared before the second action has taken place.

Apart from the fact that you can place 2 embargo tokens and get $4, gain 2 cards costing up to $5, and set two cards aside with your island respectively.

And they're just for Throne Rooms. It can easily be extended for King's Courts.

[Kirian]

I stand corrected; though those do seem to follow exceptions rather than running with the "read the card" rule that is standard.  Interesting.

[WanderingWinder]

They're not exceptions at all - they follow the general "do everything you can on the card" rule.

[mischiefmaker]

Neat puzzle! One question: why is Treasure Map only an honorable mention, and not in the list? It seems to fit the criteria exactly, unless I'm missing something...

[Queso]

A guess as to why the Treasure Map is an honorable mention:

I believe the correct ruling is that if you had Throne Room and 3 Treasure Maps in hand, then Throne Room a Treasure Map, you MUST trash all 3 Treasure maps (but only gaining 4 gold) which is different from simply playing a Treasure Map.

[rinkworks]

They're not exceptions at all - they follow the general "do everything you can on the card" rule.

I remember reading Donald saying something about how if, in doing what a card says, the card moves somewhere out of play, then the Throne Room or King's Court "loses track" of it and stops working.  This would be why Throning a Mining Village can give you +2 Cards and +4 Actions, but it can only be trashed for the +2 Coins once.

If Feast can be Throned and give you two 5-cost cards, that feels like a different rule is being used.  I don't know whether it's Feast or Mining Village that should be more properly considered the exception, but I'm confused either way.

[Donald X.]

I remember reading Donald saying something about how if, in doing what a card says, the card moves somewhere out of play, then the Throne Room or King's Court "loses track" of it and stops working.  This would be why Throning a Mining Village can give you +2 Cards and +4 Actions, but it can only be trashed for the +2 Coins once.

If Feast can be Throned and give you two 5-cost cards, that feels like a different rule is being used.  I don't know whether it's Feast or Mining Village that should be more properly considered the exception, but I'm confused either way.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=78.0

[Buttons]

I remember reading Donald saying something about how if, in doing what a card says, the card moves somewhere out of play, then the Throne Room or King's Court "loses track" of it and stops working.  This would be why Throning a Mining Village can give you +2 Cards and +4 Actions, but it can only be trashed for the +2 Coins once.

If Feast can be Throned and give you two 5-cost cards, that feels like a different rule is being used.  I don't know whether it's Feast or Mining Village that should be more properly considered the exception, but I'm confused either way.

I think the idea is that the Throne Room can't move the Mining Village back into play after it's been trashed, but you still follow the instructions on the card twice. That is, you get +1 Card +2 Actions the second time even if you trashed it the first time, but you can't trash it again since it's already in the trash.

You also can't trash Feast a second time, but since there's no "if you do" clause, the next command still gets followed.

[guided]

I think the idea is that the Throne Room can't move the Mining Village back into play after it's been trashed, but you still follow the instructions on the card twice. That is, you get +1 Card +2 Actions the second time even if you trashed it the first time, but you can't trash it again since it's already in the trash.

That's why the Throne Room doesn't move Mining Village back into play, but the answer as to why you can't get +$2 a second time (other than "the card FAQ in the rulebook explicitly says so") is that Mining Village can't find itself in the trash since it expects to find itself in the play area. Since it can't find itself, it can't trash itself.

Confused? Well, yeah, the whole discussion in the BGG thread was quite confusing to many people at the time, very much including me Until there's some formalized, printed version of the "lose track" rule I'll satisfy myself with the explicit instructions in the Mining Village card FAQ.

[WanderingWinder]

I think it's pretty simple. Feast just gives you the card. Mining village gives you the 2 *if* you trash it. But things that have already been trashed can't be trashed again, so since mining village doesn't find itself in play, it can't be trashed again, even though it can be played again.

Okay, I can see how it can be confusing, but it still makes sense to me.

[guided]

But things that have already been trashed can't be trashed again

Again, no. It's not an issue of "you can't trash something that's already in the trash". Mining Village specifically wants to move itself from the play area to the trash. This is why TR/Mining Village doesn't work for double +$2 with Possession either: it can't find itself in Possession's set-aside pile any more than it can find itself in the trash.

[WanderingWinder]

But things that have already been trashed can't be trashed again

Again, no. It's not an issue of "you can't trash something that's already in the trash". Mining Village specifically wants to move itself from the play area to the trash. This is why TR/Mining Village doesn't work for double +$2 with Possession either: it can't find itself in Possession's set-aside pile any more than it can find itself in the trash.

Well we can say 'no' at each other all day long if you want, but I must still disagree with you (except on how stuff actually works, i.e. the outcomes).

[AJD]

Queso: you're right about Treasure Maps. The reason it's honorable mention and not on the legitimate list is because it meets the criteria except in the rare case that you have more than two Treasure Maps in hand at the time you play the Throne Room. Chapel is arguably a slightly-less-honorable mention as well, since it only escapes from the list if you have more than four cards in hand (that you want to trash) in addition to your Throne Room and Chapel.

[AJD]

(By the way, I'm glad people enjoyed this puzzle! Thanks for the kind words.)

[guided]

Well we can say 'no' at each other all day long if you want, but I must still disagree with you (except on how stuff actually works, i.e. the outcomes).

The thing is...

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/6055390#6055390

For your specific combo, the question is, does Mining Village expect itself to be in play. Yes. It would normally be in play after being played, and it expects to find itself in play. If it's not in play then it can't move itself to the trash. It has to be this way, to have the same rule in all cases and handle cases where you really lose track. Again, consider cases involving shuffling. It might be impossible to move Mining Village to the trash.

If you could move a card from set-aside-land to the trash, that would count as trashing it.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/6057349#6057349

This Possession thing is another matter. We end up having to ask, is Mining Village moving itself from play to the trash, or from wherever it is to the trash? The latter might amount to giving you permission to dig through your deck, so I went with the former.

The special case of TR/MV with Possession is very instructive here, I think.

edit: Then again, there's also this post I'd forgotten about, which does explain TR/MV without Possession. So uh, we're both right?

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/5049430#5049430

It's not that you can't trash a card in the trash, it's that "did you trash that" is only answered "yes" if the card moved from elsewhere to the trash. If it was already in the trash, nothing happened.

Edit: So yes, you can't trash a card in the trash. I'm trying to be clear here. You can try to trash a card in the trash, and it will still be in the trash, but did you trash it? You didn't.

But then, you could ask while Possessing someone the very FIRST time you played Mining Village "Did you trash that?", find that the card isn't in the trash, and wonder what the answer is. Even though we know MV does allow you to get +$2 once even with Possession. At which point my head hurts. Reading over this BGG thread again is giving me horrible flashbacks. I kinda wish I hadn't been reminded of it