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[enoch825]

Stupid question, but heated argument among friends... So my friends and I have a dispute about buying a card and gaining card specifically when using talisman and watchtower.

So, some of our friends are saying that buying and gaining cards are two different things because there are specific cards that say "gain a card" or "gain... etc." So when using talisman, you BUY one card and you GAIN the same card. You can only put back one card you gained through talisman back on top of the deck; not both.

While others are saying buying and gaining are the same thing because technically speaking when you buy a card you are gaining that card. So if you use talisman to buy (gain) a card and gain a copy of it. you can use watchtower to put both of them back on top of your deck.

Rule check anyone?

[WanderingWinder]

Buying and gaining are two different things. However, when you buy something, you do also gain it (except for possession buys that go to the possessor, even though they aren't technically who bought it). So you can use watchtower to put them both on top of your deck.

[guided]

Subtle but important point: when you "buy" a card, you subsequently "gain" it. In other words, the gaining comes strictly after the buying. No, this isn't stated in any of the rulebooks, but it's implied by the Mint FAQ in the Prosperity rulebook, and it's been explicitly confirmed by official tester Jeff Wolfe on BGG.

Here's one example of why it matters: Suppose you play Royal Seal, then buy a Mint. The Mint's "when you buy" effect triggers, trashing the Royal Seal. Then you gain the Mint, but since the Royal Seal is no longer in play its "when you gain" effect can't be used to put the Mint on top of your deck.

[drg]

When you are attacked and get a curse, you 'gain' it, not buy it.  Since watchtower can either trash or put the curse on your deck, this should apply to gaining any card.

[Donald X.]

Subtle but important point: when you "buy" a card, you subsequently "gain" it. In other words, the gaining comes strictly after the buying. No, this isn't stated in any of the rulebooks, but it's implied by the Mint FAQ in the Prosperity rulebook, and it's been explicitly confirmed by official tester Jeff Wolfe on BGG.

Here's one example of why it matters: Suppose you play Royal Seal, then buy a Mint. The Mint's "when you buy" effect triggers, trashing the Royal Seal. Then you gain the Mint, but since the Royal Seal is no longer in play its "when you gain" effect can't be used to put the Mint on top of your deck.

I am just here to back this up. Buying happens before gaining. Possession should make it clear that gaining and buying are different, in addition to some cards saying gain and some saying buy, and this distinction is at least mentioned in a sidebar in one of the rulebooks.

[meshuggah42]

My friends and I came up with a phrase for this problem (much like all bugs are insects but not all insects are bugs): all buys are gains but not all gains are buys.

[kn1tt3r]

What's interesting is that in German it is written in the rules that the difference between buying and gaining is that buying happens in the buy phase and gaining happens in the action phase. Which is wrong obviously...

Usually it doesn't matter, but it might cause confusions with some Prosperity cards.

[KMueller]

Pretty important distinction when Embargo is in play. The curse is only given when a card is purchased, but it can be gained without penalty. Easily done through workshop, ironworks, feast, etc.