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[Davio]

I'm wondering... are there any power cards that make you open Feast/(Silver) over Silver/Silver?

A case can be made for Mountebank and Witch obviously, but are there any more?
Or do you prefer to open Silver/Silver and take a chance that you can't get to $5 during the next reshuffle?

I like to open Feast with Mountebank and Witch out there, but maybe I'm too paranoid?

[jonts26]

Silver/Silver gets you your $5 92% of the time. If you just want a $5, silver/silver will do you just fine.

I find feast/silver to be the better open when I just don't want many silver. Usually if I'm building some sort of engine, particularly if hunting party or minion is on the board. In the case of MB or witch, I likely open silver/silver because I need the economy for the rest of the game.

[Davio]

Ah, I didn't have the percentages handy, so I AM being too paranoid.

Hunting Party and Minion are both good examples! I would expect Feast/Loan to be higher on the Councilroom list, but then again, not every game with a Feast/Loan opening is a Minion game.

[jonts26]

I suspect feast/loan isnt rated higher because people generally play them poorly. Both cards are ones which I would only really want with a decent engine. Both do pretty bad in BM, particularly loan. Way too many people open loan with BM. But if there's a good $5 card which can generate some income (vault in GM maybe?) then I would imagine feast/loan would work great. But really, that's a very small subset of games.

[dondon151]

If I wanted Feast for a $5 card after the reshuffle, then I probably wouldn't be pairing it with a Silver.

[brokoli]

I often take feast over silver.
Especially when there is a good and cheap card like Hamlet or lighthouse (so you can trash your feast, gain a mountebank and buy a hamlet the same turn).

[theory]

Silver/Silver gets you your $5 92% of the time. If you just want a $5, silver/silver will do you just fine.

To be exact: Silver/Silver misses a $5 on Turns 3 and 4 with 8.8% probability; Feast/Silver with 5% probability.  So Feast/Silver is slightly safer.

[WanderingWinder]

Silver/Silver gets you your $5 92% of the time. If you just want a $5, silver/silver will do you just fine.

To be exact: Silver/Silver misses a $5 on Turns 3 and 4 with 8.8% probability; Feast/Silver with 5% probability.  So Feast/Silver is slightly safer.

You probably also want to mention that Feast/silver ups your chances of 5/5 from 12.6% to 29%.

[ehunt]

In an ambassador game I'd open feast/ambassador quite a bit, e.g. if there's tactician, minion, or governor, especially if opponent is opening double ambassador.

[LastFootnote]

If Militia, Feast, and Witch are available and I go first, I'll often open Militia/Silver. If I don't go first, Feast/Silver.

Yes, I've been playing way too much of the unofficial iOS app.

[paddyodoors]

You probably also want to mention that Feast/silver ups your chances of 5/5 from 12.6% to 29%.

^^^ this is why I have always favored Feast/Silver over Silver/Silver.  A 5/5 on turns three and four is a nice payout for opening Feast.

[HiveMindEmulator]

IMO, it's less about the power of the $5 card, and more about the other circumstances. Silver is almost as good as getting to $5, and then you get to keep the Silver. So for any sort of money heavy strategy, Silver/Silver (or Silver equivalent) is almost always going to be better than Feast.

But if you want to not have Silver, or you want some other cheap card instead (so you can Feast + buy cheap card), then you consider Feast.

[LastFootnote]

IMO, it's less about the power of the $5 card, and more about the other circumstances. Silver is almost as good as getting to $5, and then you get to keep the Silver.

This argument doesn't make sense, though. If, on the turn you cash in your Feast, you would have been able to buy a $5 card anyway, then you can buy the Silver on that turn with the $3 you have. Same end result.

[HiveMindEmulator]

IMO, it's less about the power of the $5 card, and more about the other circumstances. Silver is almost as good as getting to $5, and then you get to keep the Silver.

This argument doesn't make sense, though. If, on the turn you cash in your Feast, you would have been able to buy a $5 card anyway, then you can buy the Silver on that turn with the $3 you have. Same end result.

Sorry, I didn't mean that Silver better in this sense. I meant that it's the same. So you don't really end up gaining anything from Feast if you want Silver anyway.

But to be more precise about when it's different in strategies where you want Silver, the difference occurs when you draw it with something other than $3.
With $2 (~20% chance), Silver gets you to Silver+Silver instead of $5+$2.
With $4 (~30% chance), Silver gets you to Gold+Silver instead of $5+Silver.
With $5 (~10% chance), Silver gets you to Gold+Silver instead of $5+$5.

[GendoIkari]

If Militia, Feast, and Witch are available and I go first, I'll often open Militia/Silver. If I don't go first, Feast/Silver.

Yes, I've been playing way too much of the unofficial iOS app.

Heh, I just got that a couple days ago. Man, there's only so many base-set games you can play. What's funny is that it was base-set Dominion that made me love Dominion, but after having played all the expansions, base-set Dominion feels like a game that gets tired fast.

[LastFootnote]

Heh, I just got that a couple days ago. Man, there's only so many base-set games you can play. What's funny is that it was base-set Dominion that made me love Dominion, but after having played all the expansions, base-set Dominion feels like a game that gets tired fast.

Agreed. I think that another big part of it is the rapidity with which online games can be played. Even if I'd never seen a Dominion expansion, I think I'd have cooled on the base game pretty quickly if I could play 5 to 10 games per hour whenever I wanted, rather than 2-3 games per day/week.

[Kuildeous]

Heh, I just got that a couple days ago. Man, there's only so many base-set games you can play. What's funny is that it was base-set Dominion that made me love Dominion, but after having played all the expansions, base-set Dominion feels like a game that gets tired fast.

Agreed. I think that another big part of it is the rapidity with which online games can be played. Even if I'd never seen a Dominion expansion, I think I'd have cooled on the base game pretty quickly if I could play 5 to 10 games per hour whenever I wanted, rather than 2-3 games per day/week.

Hell, I cooled on the game back when Androminion only had Base + Intrigue + Seaside. I was actually getting a little tired of playing that (though the subpar AIs didn't help matters any).

When they released a new Androminion with all the sets (sans promos) and slightly tweaked AIs, I have more fun with it now. Still not as good as having a human opponent.

[tlloyd]

I've mentioned this before in other threads, but it's just so classic: when my bro-in-law was fairly new to the game he opened Feast/- with $5/$2. When I asked why he took the Feast over a $5 card, he said he didn't want any $5 cards! 

[shMerker]

Are there situations where there are two different $5s, and you use the feast to delay picking one up until you've seen what your opponent is doing while guaranteeing you get to pick one up?

Edit: I just realized that this only potentially makes sense in a 5/2 opening since otherwise getting the silver doesn't block you off on deciding which $5 to get any sooner than the Feast does.

[popsofctown]

My mom tried to buy a 5$ feast

If throne room is on the board it kinda makes sense

[eHalcyon]

My mom tried to buy a 5$ feast

If throne room is on the board it kinda makes sense

As an opening?  I guess that's why you said "kinda". 

I mean, you can't buy both Feast and TR for opening, so there's that, and then you need them to collide.  Maybe if there's support? It would be like a Treasure Map gambit, though I think I'd usually prefer the gold over 2 5s and an extra TR.

[popsofctown]

I meant that there would be a semblance of logic, not that it would be a defensible play.

As in, when my mom opens Village/Silver and buys two Smithies turn 3 and 4 to go with it, I'm proud of her for at least having a plan in mind.

[def]

I meant that there would be a semblance of logic, not that it would be a defensible play.

As in, when my mom opens Village/Silver and buys two Smithies turn 3 and 4 to go with it, I'm proud of her for at least having a plan in mind.

But don't forget to tell her that Smithy/Silver is a superior opening, and that, according to simulators, one Smithy and zero Villages are enough when going BM otherwise, discussing the other options on the board for 5 minutes, leaving her with no fun in playing the game.

On topic, I'd open Feast, if no other options are available, over Silver, if
- I don't want the second Silver at all, for example in Hunting Party games,
- I don't even want a single silver, for example in tight engines, but need to hit 5$ and there are no terminal +2$ cards available,
- I need the Feast to hit 5$ because my 3$ part of the opening doesn't provide money (Ambassador with a strong 5$? Lookout?)

But I have to say, I don't think any of these options ever happened to me.

[Ozle]

Im not sure I have ever bought Feast once I had more than the base game

I also assumed (which appears incorrect) that you couldn't use Throne room on Feast because you couldnt trash the same card twice

[Geronimoo]

According to CouncilRoom I buy it 20% of the time and when I do it hurts my win rate, WanderingWinder buys it 50% of the time and it increases his win rate when he buys it. Very strange...

[Algebraist]

I also assumed (which appears incorrect) that you couldn't use Throne room on Feast because you couldnt trash the same card twice

Indeed you can't trash the card twice. Since the gaining isn't conditional on the trashing, this is irrelevant. This is stated explicitly in the base set rules under feast.

[shMerker]

Mint?

[WanderingWinder]

Mint?

Not to open! What are you minting?
Actually, usually a big part of the mint is the copper trashing it gets you, though its 'main' effect is quite nice too sometimes.

[shMerker]

Mint?

Not to open! What are you minting?

Fools gold? But I guess then you want the trashing. I was just trying to find an edge case and getting mint with feast is very different from buying it.

[Piemaster]

I meant that there would be a semblance of logic, not that it would be a defensible play.

As in, when my mom opens Village/Silver and buys two Smithies turn 3 and 4 to go with it, I'm proud of her for at least having a plan in mind.

But don't forget to tell her that Smithy/Silver is a superior opening, and that, according to simulators, one Smithy and zero Villages are enough when going BM otherwise, discussing the other options on the board for 5 minutes, leaving her with no fun in playing the game.

Yeah that's the thing about teaching someone to play.  Often there is so much you want to share with them, but more often than not you're better off just letting them learn the game at their own pace.