Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Combo: Horse Traders/Library  (Read 9524 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Willvon

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +168
    • View Profile
Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« on: July 07, 2011, 05:35:55 pm »
0

My wife and I were playing a game at home the other night which included colonies/platinums.  The deck was as follows:
3 – Masquerade; Fortune Teller
4 – Walled Village; Conspirator; Horse Traders
5 – Harvest; Library; Rabble
6 – Nobles
7 – Kings Court

We actually played this same setup twice.  I won both games because I was able to get a better KC engine going combined particularly with Masquerade, Conspirator, and Nobles.  I also made use of Horse Traders for needed extra buys and to help discard junk.  In fact, at one point, I was able to purchase 3 Colonies in one turn, which was pretty cool for me in my limited experience with the game.

Though my wife did not win, she hit upon a combo that worked very well for her, especially early in the game.  While I started out Silver/Conspirator, she started Silver/Horse Traders.  She was able to quickly buy a Library and Walled Village soon thereafter.  Those three cards worked together very well for her.  She played the Village, drew a card, played a Horse Traders, discarded two, then Library, which then allowed her to draw 6 cards, while drawing plenty of Treasures.  Early in the game, this meant a lot of Coppers, but it worked much like a Counting House without having to have all of the Coppers in the discard.  She was thus able to get Golds, Nobles and KC’s early.  All you need is a Village or other card that gives +2 Actions.

I did not try this combo myself.  I focused on Masquerade and Conspirator early, but it certainly worked well for her when it hit.  I believe one reason that it didn’t do as well for her as it could have is that she didn’t commit strongly to it by buying multiple HT’s and Libraries.  So as her deck grew, she wasn’t able to pull it up consistently.  In addition, I was able to thin my deck quicker with KC/Masquerade.  I have no doubt that there are other combos that are stronger, but I wondered if anyone else had tried this combo and found it to be effective.  If so, what would you think would be the optimal number of HT’s and Libraries needed to make it work?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 11:47:15 am by Willvon »
Logged

Tahtweasel

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 71
  • Respect: +36
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 07:58:36 pm »
0

Masquerade is key in a KC game, to the point that both of you clearly should have opened silver/masquerade. That combo is very nifty, of course, and horse traders also works well with minion, menagerie, or watchtower.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 08:05:43 pm »
0

You've spotted one combination where you can play or discard cards from hand and then use a library to draw up to 7 cards again. There are plenty more and it's a fair strategy, so keep looking.
Logged

Superdad

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 08:51:38 am »
0

Horse Traders/Library is decent because if they collide (without your villiage support), then you can always just use the library as one of the horse trader discards. It's a pretty medium-powered combo though.

The best cards to combo with Library are +actions without +draws, but some other benefit. I don't want to give them all away. A few games ago I had a cute board with Fishing Villiage, Vault and Library. That was some pretty fun stuff. 3x fishing villiage, play library, draw up to 7, play vault, discard hand, possibly another library, make a huge big buy (and getting FV bonuses for next turn).

About a week ago I had a Black Market/Tactician/Library/villiage kingdom. It's pretty fun to start your turn with 10 cards from tactician, play a villiage, use black market, playing all your treasures, play a library, draw back up to 7 cards, another villiage, another black market, play all your treasures, then play tactician again. Spend $15-20 on that turn, and still get a tactician 10-card-turn next also! Black Market/Library is fun because you can dump your treasures during your action phase and reload with library (provided you have some + action). It didn't hurt that Black Market/Tactician is a darn solid combo as well.

Look at me, I said I didn't want to give the combos away, and I went and gave a few away. At least there are TONS more to find!

There are just SO many cool combos in this game, and most of them aren't explicitly obvious. There's a lot of exploration-fun when you learn Dominion. Have fun exploring :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 08:56:44 am by Superdad »
Logged

Willvon

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +168
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 11:52:27 am »
0

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement.  I really enjoy this site and Theory's Dominion Strategy site.  Dominion is an amazing game.  We have never had a game like this that both my wife and I want to play as often as we possibly can.
Logged

Willvon

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +168
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 11:58:08 am »
0

Masquerade is key in a KC game, to the point that both of you clearly should have opened silver/masquerade. That combo is very nifty, of course, and horse traders also works well with minion, menagerie, or watchtower.

I hadn't thought of Masquerade as being a better opening than Conspirator.  I know that I have read in one the strategy articles at BGG or Dominion Strategy that it is good to use your $4 buy on something that is at least a Silver equivalent.  So I thought Conspirator would be best since it gave me the $2.  I could then pick up Masquerade the next time I had $3 or $4.  Is it the trashing aspect of Masquerade that makes it better?
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 12:04:24 pm »
0

It's the passing junk to your opponent aspect that makes Masquerade one of the best cards in the game. The only other card that can do that is Ambassador. The trashing aspect of Masquerade is there so that even if your opponent passes you junk back, you're still better off for playing it. If he doesn't pass you junk, brilliant. All that and we haven't even mentioned the +2 cards aspect!
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 12:05:57 pm »
0

Masquerade is key in a KC game, to the point that both of you clearly should have opened silver/masquerade. That combo is very nifty, of course, and horse traders also works well with minion, menagerie, or watchtower.

I hadn't thought of Masquerade as being a better opening than Conspirator.  I know that I have read in one the strategy articles at BGG or Dominion Strategy that it is good to use your $4 buy on something that is at least a Silver equivalent.  So I thought Conspirator would be best since it gave me the $2.  I could then pick up Masquerade the next time I had $3 or $4.  Is it the trashing aspect of Masquerade that makes it better?
Yes. Masquerade is one of the very elite openers in the game, arguably THE best opener (probably not, but it's close). Conspirator isn't such a great opener most of the time, since it's a straight-up dead terminal silver before you can 'activate' it.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 12:09:09 pm »
0

It's the passing junk to your opponent aspect that makes Masquerade one of the best cards in the game. The only other card that can do that is Ambassador. The trashing aspect of Masquerade is there so that even if your opponent passes you junk back, you're still better off for playing it. If he doesn't pass you junk, brilliant. All that and we haven't even mentioned the +2 cards aspect!
I don't think the passing junk is really that great, since usually your opponent passes equally bad junk back (you have more cards than them in hand, but you've been trashing so your cards are generally better) - it's being able to trash a card after the drawing that's powerful, combined with the +2 cards, which really accelerates you fast.

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 12:20:05 pm »
0

Passing junk is great because your opponent can't trash what you give them. They get it whether they like it or not. If they give you something you don't want, you can immediately get rid of it. If they give you something you don't mind, you can trash something worse that you were originally holding for effectively -2 bad cards, +1 better card (AND +1 bad card in your opponent's hand).
Logged

dan11295

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 12:26:12 pm »
0

Only time you have to a bit careful with masquerade is when +actions and handsize reducing attacks are both in the game. In those type of games you probably don't want to trash all your "junk" out of you deck lest you be forced to hand over a valuable card.
Logged

ShuffleNCut

  • Coppersmith
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 46
  • Respect: +8
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 02:25:18 pm »
0

Surgeon General's Warning: Do not open Sea Hag when your opponent opens Masquerade.  That is an anti-combo that is manufactured with losing.

Also, passing your opponent junk and receiving junk back is absolutely fine as you get to immediately garbage bin his junk and he is stuck with yours.  You have an extra card from your deck (5-1 for Masq+2) to find your worst cards (even more if it comes at the end of a +action/+cards chain), he has only his starting five.
Logged

Superdad

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2011, 02:49:21 pm »
0

regarding the specific example of if Sea Hag was on this board:

I would still open Sea Hag if my opponenet opens Masquerade, because I am still going to get masquerade myself.

A kingdom with Masquerade *and* Sea Hag defines the entire game, similarly to any game with a strong curser + trasher. These games always proceed as follows:

Phase 1: Both players junk the other's deck.
Phase 2: Both players recover.
Phase 3: Both players grow buying power in some way and race to VPs/Piles.

Your ability to win the Phase 1 fight directly impacts the amount of time you spend in Phase 2. Opening Masquerade/Silver is a decent option, but I would contest that the way this game WILL play out, you are better with the two actions. For example. lets watch what happens to Player A who opens Silver/Masquerade versus Player B who opens Sea Hag/Masquerade.

Player A is dumping his junk to you once per shuffle, while maintaining decent buying power. This buying power will then slightly bloat his deck, meaning that he will masquerade you less than you masquerade him.

Player B (you) is both dumping your junk to his deck, as well as cursing his deck (upon non-collides). If you do collide, you are doing no worse than him in terms of fighting the junk battle, however you may have to buy a 3 vs a 4. Good news for you, there is a good 3 on this board!

Any buys you make should be buys that don't bloat your deck. Any villiage is actually pretty good here. Any +1 card/+1 action is good here. You want to Masquerade/Sea hag him as often as possible so that you win that fight. If you win this early fight, you will do two things... You will recover (phase 2) faster, and he will recover slower. Then you can win the race to end the game on piles (ideally, since you should be ahead).

For example, if there was a villiage style card in this kingdom, I would focus entirely on buying at least 2 copies of masquerade AND seahag, with 3+ villiages by turn 6-8. I want to absolutely crush Phase 1 of this game. If he opens Masquerade/Silver, he may maintain a little higher early game buying power, but I will absolutely destroy his deck, and then I will recover faster myself.

Note that once curses are gone, you can give him your sea hags to kick him while he's down.


IMO Masquerade/Sea Hag is the opening you want here. Forget about your buying power early game. Focus on asolutely winning Phase 1 of this game.

Then again, I could be completely wrong, I'm still fairly new to the game.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:51:40 pm by Superdad »
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2011, 03:06:42 pm »
0

It's a good thought process, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong - Masq/silver and maybe grabbing a second fairly soon is the way to go.

livious

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2011, 03:12:35 pm »
0

You're going to get crushed by Masq/Masq though no?  Every time you play SH you give them a useless card, while every time they play their extra Masq they remove a useless card and maybe gain buying power and accelerate towards their next reshuffle.  That should be a fight they win.
Logged

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2011, 03:18:31 pm »
0

Masquerade is an excellent defense against cursing attacks, but most of the time you're probably going to want both the Masquerade and the curser.  My experiments in going pure Masquerade against Familiar decks have tended to not work out, especially if they get Masquerade too.  And Mountebank is an obvious pickup, because the two cards of junk goes in faster than a pure Masquerade player can trash, and yeah you can pass the Curses back, but then you're losing your defenses as well. 

However, if the curser is Sea Hag, you can bet I am not going anywhere near the Hag.  It does nothing for you, and because the curse goes on top of the deck, it is very, very easy for the pure Masquerade player to just pass those curses back to you.  On a Masquerade/Hag board I am opening Masq/Silver, buying a second Masquerade, and being very happy if my opponent buys the Hag.  Granted I'd normally buy a second Masquerade anyway, but an opponent's Hag turns this decision from "debatable, could go either way" to "slam dunk".
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

Taco Lobster

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 288
  • Respect: +74
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2011, 07:50:34 pm »
0

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Sea Hag on a board with Masquerade either.  There are some curse cards I'll still use even with Masquerade on the board, such as Mountebank or Witch, but Sea Hag is not one of them. 

I'm playing more with double-terminal opens these days.  It's a bit higher risk, but it's often worth it.  Whether to go Masq/Masq or Masq/Silver depends on what's available at $5+.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2011, 11:06:56 pm »
0

The first effect of a masquerade is to equalize the bottom quality cards between decks. The player of masquerade has an advantage as they can choose a card to trash afterwards, raising that level slightly. However therein lies the problem. You can buy a masquerade to improve the bottom line of your deck, but as soon as you've done that the masquerade will drag your opponent's bottom line up to that level too, even as you improve your bottom line further. The real advantage is to contract your deck by trashing a poor card.

In terms of card quality, playing curses and masquerades doesn't work. You give the curse to lower the bottom line then play the masquerade to equalize it. There is another aspect to curses though and that's deck expansion. Every bad card slows down the working of an opponent's deck. A familiar can distribute curses quickly with no loss of deck speed whilst any trashing action (or ambassador) will be slower and/or consume space from hand.
Logged

ShuffleNCut

  • Coppersmith
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 46
  • Respect: +8
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2011, 03:19:00 am »
0

The first effect of a masquerade is to equalize the bottom quality cards between decks. The player of masquerade has an advantage as they can choose a card to trash afterwards, raising that level slightly. However therein lies the problem. You can buy a masquerade to improve the bottom line of your deck, but as soon as you've done that the masquerade will drag your opponent's bottom line up to that level too, even as you improve your bottom line further. The real advantage is to contract your deck by trashing a poor card.

In terms of card quality, playing curses and masquerades doesn't work. You give the curse to lower the bottom line then play the masquerade to equalize it. There is another aspect to curses though and that's deck expansion. Every bad card slows down the working of an opponent's deck. A familiar can distribute curses quickly with no loss of deck speed whilst any trashing action (or ambassador) will be slower and/or consume space from hand.

The player who is currently playing Masquerade gets to see six cards (or more) when deciding what to pass and trash; your opponent gets to see five (or less).  This means that when playing Masquerade you will have a bigger chance of both passing and trashing your worst cards.  It's only a slight edge but it's an edge nonetheless.  The advantage of Masquerade over some other early trashers is that the draw effect both gives you a wider selection to trash from and makes it so that the Masquerade effectively doesn't reduce your hand size.
Logged

Willvon

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +168
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2011, 09:22:52 pm »
0

This thread has been very enlightening for me.  I thought that I would possibly get some comments about Horse Traders, but instead I gained a whole new appreciation for a card I mentioned in passing.  In that past, I have to admit that I have viewed Masquerade as more of a nuisance than a beneficial card.  Sure, it would allow you to trash, but there are a lot of other cards that I felt were better trashers.  And though it does allow you to pass junk to your opponent, the fact is that especially early in the game, you usually are passing the same junk to each other.  And I was always figured that late in the game, I would generally want to keep the cards I had in my hand rather than give them away.  So it didn't seem like it was really that helpful unless it was the only trashing card in the supply.  Therefore, I have pretty much avoided it in the past.

Now, however, my opinion of it has grown considerably.  I will make more effective use of it in the future.  Thank you for the insight.  I especially like the idea of giving someone useless Sea Hags after the curses are gone and they have worn out their usefulness.
Logged

Not a Cylon

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2011, 11:02:04 am »
0

Masquerade is key in a KC game, to the point that both of you clearly should have opened silver/masquerade. That combo is very nifty, of course, and horse traders also works well with minion, menagerie, or watchtower.

I thought about Horse Traders/Minion once. Unfortunately for me, I then learned the hard way that Horse Traders is also extremely powerful against Minion … powerful enough to make me think twice about going after the Minions next time.
Logged

drg

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2011, 03:39:35 am »
0

Fishing village, festival, native village, vault, secret chamber, black market and hamlet also work really well with library/watchtower - especially the ones that give actions.
Logged

Superdad

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2011, 09:10:18 am »
0

I think there is a lot of gut-feeling in this thread. The interaction between Masq/Sea Hag is pretty complex. I actually think this is something that is either simulated, or not understood (but thought - falsely - to be understood).

For example, Sea Hag/Masq  vs Masq/Masq. Somethings to consider:

1) Sea Hag/Masq may give the other Masq player curses to give back to you, but that also means they didn't give you their estate that turn. This means that while your bottom line may be worsening (compared to if you didn't hag them), theirs is too (compared if you didn't hag them)

2) Masq/Masq collides MUCH more frequently than Hag/Masq for two reasons. First, the obvious one: Masq draws 2. So many times you have MCCCE, then Masq into another Masq. This won't happen with seahag unless you draw them both in your 5 (although Masq can still draw hag, but hag can't draw Masq). This is a small effect, but it's there nonetheless. Also, Masq/Masq will trash faster, and therefore will collide more as the game goes on. That being said:

3) Since Masq/Masq trashes faster, it can gain access to a trim deck faster. However, it has more to trash (curses as well as estates). If it can manage to get above the "hill", it can purchase a walled villiage (on this board), and probably stay "clean" from there on out. However, note:

4) Once Masq/Masq has cleaned it's deck, it may actually not be advantageous to play Masq anymore for two reasons... firstly, it may not have junk to pass anymore (this is on the assumptions that it has won phase 1), and second, it doesn't want to get a sea hag passed back. For example, imagine what happens if the Masq player passes a Masq (to get rid of the now useless Masq) and gets a sea hag returned. Now it has 1 less Masq to return the hag.

It's quite possible (and likely, considering the level of the players commenting in this thread) that Masq/Masq or Masq/Silver beats Hag/Masq, but I'm not entirely convinced based on these posts, simply because of the amount of assumptions that are being made, and all four of the above points which are not being quantified. Not only that, but I've seen this type of discussion literally hundreds of times before, and many many times it's completely wrong - even though there is a ton of groupthink that believes it is correct. This entire situation just sets my alarm bells off, because without a doubt, this board is SO COMPLEX in all the various possible permutations that there is simply no way on earth that someone can draw any accurate conclusion without simulating it. It's just way way way too complex. Sooo the entire point of my lengthy post (sorry)...

I think the only way to really understand this is to simulate it.

Tangent example (stop reading now if you are bored of reading my post :)   )

It reminds me a LOT of what I read in MTG strategy boards. There will be two top tier decks and the entire community (including some of the best pros in the game) will believe that Deck A beats Deck B. However, in reality, after a major pro event, you actually find that all along the entire community was wrong, and it's actually Deck B that crushes Deck A. You then go back and read the reasons why the whole community thought the other way, and you find that it's all based on arguments that have been completely un-quantified, not simulated, and based entirely on gut-feel or small sample sizes.

TL:DR - I believe the case of Sea-Hag/Masq vs Masq/Masq or Silver/Masq is entirely too complex to fully understand without in-depth simulation. I may dig into this a little more if I have some time, because I'm not entirely convinced that the solution is presented here. This situation is just way too complex to understand without simulations or very very large sample sizes.

TL:DR#2 - I also think there is a second phenomena that is at play here too... A very very good player (say WanderingWinder for example) will post that he wins by playing strategy X. He then possibly concludes that strategy X is superior to strategy Y. However, especially in a game as little-understood as Dominion (newish game, small player base, especailly notably small community of theorists/simulations/stat analysis), there tends to be a large divide between player skills. The top players are literally three times as good as even the 2nd tier players. So WanderingWinder believes that strategy X is superior, however, he wins with it simply because he's miles better than his opponents, so he'd with with either strategy - executed perfectly. Which one gives him the bigger edge? It's hard to say.

This phenomena happens a TON in newer strategty game that aren't analyzed to *death*. I've seen it so many times. For example, the reigning world champion (and 2 time player of the year) in WoW TCG was adamant about a certain deck being miles above other decks. The entire community took the deck to the world championships (including him) and they literally all got CRUSHED. It was actually one of the worst decks out there. The world champion? He was top of the heap.

The effect he was seeing was not that his deck was the best, but rather, he was just really fking good at the game and could win with literally anything.

Again, not saying that's happening here, but it's a phenomena you have to be aware of.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 09:28:13 am by Superdad »
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2011, 09:21:31 am »
0

4) Once Masq/Masq has cleaned it's deck, it may actually not be advantageous to play Masq anymore for two reasons... firstly, it may not have junk to pass anymore (this is on the assumptions that it has won phase 1), and second, it doesn't want to get a sea hag passed back. For example, imagine what happens if the Masq player passes a Masq (to get rid of the now useless Masq) and gets a sea hag returned. Now it has 1 less Masq to return the hag.

Trash it. You don't need to return it.
Logged

Superdad

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Horse Traders/Library
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2011, 09:26:59 am »
0

Yes but then they still masq their hag to you and now you have 1 less masq to get rid of it. This also assumes that you are able to get above their hag.

For example:

Masq/Masq has a higher probability of colliding turns 3/4 than Hag/Masq. What happens if you collid masq's and they dont' collide hag/masq. Their deck is now 7 coppers, 2 estates, masq and hag + whatever they bought.
Your deck is now 7 coppers, 2 estates, curse, masq, masq + whatever you bought.

If you collide again, and they don't (again you are still more likely to collide than them), you can fall even farther behind. What happens if next turn you collide again, they don't, and they get a walled villiage plus another masq? You are in big big trouble.

What are the probabilities of the game going this way? I'm not sure, but I'd bet it's VERY probable.

This situation is way too complex to fully understand without simulations.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.229 seconds with 21 queries.