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Author Topic: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis  (Read 6082 times)

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def

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5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« on: May 05, 2012, 03:17:31 pm »
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Hi!

After the last one, let's make these one as simple as possible:

5.1 Empty the Curse pile as fast as possible and have all Curses in your deck.
The turn you emptied the Curse pile is counted.

5.2 Empty the Curse pile, have all Curses in your deck at this moment, and get rid of them again as fast as possible.
The turn you removed the last Curse from your deck is counted.

Entries as a gamelog and one per person, only, deadline Sunday (since I posted late today, so you have a full weekend, splitted though, if you need it), May 13th, GMT+1 9:00 a.m.

There are two parts of this challenge. Both count as a complete challenge, so 4,2,1 points again, BUT you are only allowed one entry in total. This means you may need to decide what you want to do - get the Curses as fast as possible and screw your deck, needing longer to get rid off them again, or get the Curses a bit later, but have a better deck to trash them again. Or can you do both?
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CoheedandCambria

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 08:54:20 pm »
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Just making sure I understand this right..

let's say Bob gained all curses on turn 20 and trashed them all on turn 21 but Alice gained all curses on turn 10 and trashed them all on turn 20.

Will Alice beat Bob in both categories? or does Bob win the second one because he trashed all curses in 1 turn after gaining them?
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Morgrim7

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 09:35:18 pm »
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I can trash all curses by about 17 turns. I doubt that is competitive, though
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

O

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 03:34:59 am »
+3

I can empty the curse pile in 10 turns, regardless of shuffle luck  ;D
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def

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2012, 05:53:06 am »
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@CoheedandCambria: I don't count the difference, but the turn number, so yeah, Alice is better in both strategy.

@Morgrim7: I'm pretty sure you can improve this a bit, and then maybe...

@O: Nice! ;) At least this could be a benchmark for the first part of the challenge. Would be fun if this would be enough to score.

Since there was a little confusion: You have to have all 10 Curses in your deck before you start trashing them. I stated that to avoid things with Watchtower and other cards, but this also means that you can't start trashing if you already have 8 or 9 Curses in deck. You can, however, gain the last or all 10 Curses in one turn, having 10 Curses in your deck at that moment, and start trashing them on the same turn afterwards.
And you are free to not care about 5.2 if you only want to gain the Curses, and resign after you gained the last Cursse.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 05:55:12 am by def »
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dondon151

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 03:00:26 pm »
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I can think of a few ways to get all Curses in 5 turns, but it requires an absurd amount of shuffle luck that I can't be bothered trying to get.
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def

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 05:19:11 pm »
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Is this a kind of solution (without spoiling it) that totally fails if you don't hit it perfectly? Otherwise, you could try to go for at least 6 or 7 turns or so.
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Morgrim7

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 06:48:26 pm »
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The hard part isn't buying the curses, the hard part is trashing them once you have all of them.  ;)
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Galzria

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 08:19:17 pm »
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I haven't put in a lot of effort in, but without great draws I can baseline around 7-8 turns.... For the first half. The second half though... That is a good challenge. Best I can think is to try to gain/trash 'em all in one go, but that's easier said than done.

I've got an unorthodox idea that I'm toying around with - at least unorthodox compared to how most of these challenges usually end up playing out. I doubt it'll be competitive however.

Still, from what I gather, I would be really surprised if you could be competitive in both challenges.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 04:14:16 am »
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The hard part isn't buying the curses, the hard part is trashing them once you have all of them.  ;)

That was the easy part for me, but my entry focussed more on the second set of points than the first.
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dondon151

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 08:09:52 pm »
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Is this a kind of solution (without spoiling it) that totally fails if you don't hit it perfectly? Otherwise, you could try to go for at least 6 or 7 turns or so.

Yes, you need absolutely perfect shuffle luck. Something like all of your turns 1-4 buys showing up on turn 5 (and 2 of the cards that you draw on turn 5 are dead because they are the last 2 cards in your deck).
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Galzria

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2012, 02:21:14 pm »
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Noo! Why must the server crash right as I fine tune the strategy I want to use on my phone...  :(

/pout

Do Game Logs from Androminion count?  ;D I promise there are no attack cards on the table, and my opponent in no way modified my deck, or my gaining/trashing of the curses.  ;)
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

verikt

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2012, 02:48:58 pm »
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workers village embargo. four embargos on the curses and you can empty the pile in one turn by buying two. trashing would be something with forge or kc kc bishop? the server is down right now, so I can't even look.
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CoheedandCambria

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 03:51:04 pm »
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first off, that's INCREDIBLY slow.. secondly, why give away your "answers" in a SOLO challenge?
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def

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 03:59:51 am »
+1

As expected, various different approaches and the metagame to decide which part to go for, 1 or 2 or both, was important.

For part 1, we have Mogrim7 and CoheedandCambria in 7 turns,
Tables in 6 turns and Galzria in only 5 turns.
All these solutions have two things in common: They need a way to gain multiple Curses with one buy (Embargo or Talisman), and to have multiple buys a turn (Hamlet, Tactician (which is also useful later on))

Most of you aimed for the second part of the challenge, but therefore couldn't be fast enough to score in part 1.
Mostly megaturns solutions are following. In 10 turns, we have Thisisnotasmile, Deadlock39, Hks and CoheedandCambria again. He is the only one who was fast enough for both parts, congratulations on that. I'll award him a bonus point for that.

One person managed to get even a turn faster, GigaKnight managed to both gain and trash all Curses on turn 9.

Some were inspired by jonts26' solution of my first challenge, and since he ended the game in 8 turns, are 8 turns possible? Sure:
Schneau gains and trashes all Curses in 8 turns. 8 real turns. I almost forgot your solution since I looked briefly at it and saw "14 turns? Nah".
He just skipped the first 6 turns to get a 5-2 split. It's ok, but it would be nice if you try to avoid it in the future, since I compare the turns in the gamelogs with each other and won't keep in mind how many turns everyone skipped if multiple challengers do so.

Anyway, a short example of the various numbers of key cards successfully used:
Tactician, Forge, Chapel, Embargo, Governor, King's Court, Ironworks, Workshop, Bridge, Worker's Village, Hamlet, Talisman, Wharf.

Points:
Hks 11
Galzria 10
Schneau 9
GendoIkari 6
Fate, jonts26 5
Avin, Galzria, Rabid, WrathofGlod 4
CoheedandCambria, ftl, Powerman 3
DG, GigaKnight, qmech, Tables 2
Deadlock39, mazwa, Morgrim7, theory, Thisisnotasmile 1

Next one is coming when I can remember the idea I had for it, or find a new one.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 04:20:48 am by def »
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Schneau

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2012, 08:49:40 am »
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Thanks for counting my game even though I took the easy way of getting a 5/2 split. When you are trying the same strategy over and over on Isotropic and need 5/2, this is much more convenient than resigning from every 4/3 split. Anyway, good challenge!
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Galzria

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Re: 5.1 - Curse you! & 5.2 - Catharsis
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 01:08:39 pm »
+1

Dang! Just short of finishing in the points on the second challenge! 11 turns to trash just wasn't quick enough... but honestly, after the turn 6 reshuffle, everything was up to the luck of the draw. Going over it, it's possible to finish in 9, but VERY unlikely. There is almost nothing you can do to improve your own chances, you just have to get lucky.

Notes on the 5 turns to gather all 10 Curses: It's not quite as difficult as you may think! I spent about an hour on this challenge, mostly trying to bring down the turns for the second part of the challenge. In that hour time, I hit the start-up 5 turns probably a dozen times. The trick is twofold:

A) I needed my opening Hamlet/Talisman to collide on turn 3 or 4, and I needed them to do so with at most 1 Estate in hand after the Hamlet play. This is to provide +1 buy, and $4 remaining. This often seemed the harder of the two bits of luck. >.> But restarts at this point were quick. On the other turn I pick up a Watchtower.

B) On turn 5, I have 4 new cards to work with, as there was 1 card left before the reshuffle (thanks to my Hamlet play earlier). With these 4 cards, I needed at least 1 Hamlet, and my Watchtower (although it could been the top card, which would be drawn by my Hamlet play). I have a total of 16 cards in the reshuffle, 5 of which are Hamlet, so hitting 1 isn't too terrible, and often enough I'd get the (ideal) 2. The only really tricky part here then was finding my Watchtower, but when I did, it was pretty consistent that I could gain all 10 curses. (Disappearing Village ftw. ;D)

And as you can see, when everything falls into place, I can also pick up 2 much needed Chapels on turn 5. This sets me up to draw the last card of my deck, reshuffle, and have a fresh go. I ended anywhere from 11 to 16 turns on my attempts after that point. If I got really lucky, I could have hit 4 Curses in each hand that contained one of my two Chapels, taking out 8. If I then drew my Watchtower with a few Hamlets and the last 2 curses right at the end of my deck, I could have reshuffled midturn on turn 9, keeping the last 2 curses in hand, found a Chapel, and ended it. <- But that whole paragraph is almost 100% luck driven. The first 5 turns I could mostly control, after that.....

Still, thanks for the challenge! Lots of fun. I was correct in my thought that 8 turns could pull of the second part. And glad to see somebody sneak into both sides of the challenge. ;D
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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