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Morgrim7

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A list of cards that cause problems
« on: April 30, 2012, 01:25:54 pm »
0

I'm not talking about problems on Iso., but just problems in general.
I'll start:
Possession (duh)
Torturer
Black Market
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jsh357

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 01:40:46 pm »
+2

Hey, I have no problem possessing people.

What do you mean by 'problems,' anyway?  Fist fights? 
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Morgrim7

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 01:44:52 pm »
0

Hey, I have no problem possessing people.

What do you mean by 'problems,' anyway?  Fist fights?
Problems meaning fist fights, rules questions, anything that is annoying.
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Algebraist

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 01:54:07 pm »
0

The only card I know of that's ever caused a serious rules problem is ironworks (with trader or possession).
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first

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 02:02:14 pm »
+1

Interesting to see that you didn't include Curse. I put it at the top of my list.  8)

I have played more than enough to get all rules questions, and fist fight seems out of question for me, so I only have a list for annoying cards.

Swindler - "Hey dough I heard you like Swindler, so I Swindler your Swindler into Swindler so that you can use that Swindler to Swindler my Swindler into Swindler." or something along that line
Minion - "Hey dough I heard you like Minion, so I Minion away your Minion so that you can draw another Minion to Minion away your hand and get more Minions."
Possession - "Hey dough I heard you like Possession ..."

You can see the analogy here. I don't like cards that affect itself, which means that in a mirrored game the one who hits first tends to win. This does not happen often, but I hate it when it does. A few other similar cards are Sea Hag and Smugglers.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 02:04:38 pm »
+4

I love many things in life.  2 of these things are Dominion, and complaining.  Lets combine the two! 

  • Governor - I have a serious problem with this card... I always seem to find myself on the losing end of the mega turn at the end of this game.  This is my highest priority veto from 2nd player.  From 1st player - I keep it because I expect it to favor me - and lose.
  • Tournament - I loved this card the first 10 times I played it.  I know that some of the other players out there disagree with me, but I really don't enjoy how the game frequently turns once one player starts winning tournaments.  If it was situation like a bridge megaturn - where the game just ends, thats fine.  Tournament games seem to keep going long after they are already decided.  On the flip side, it is SUPER satisfying to win a tournament game if you lose out on Followers and Trusty Steed.
  • Alchemist - I just have problems with this card.  It's expensive enough that it causes potion whiff - and then there's the "oh crap there goes my alchemist stack" problem when you don't manage to draw the potion - even though council room stats suggest that having a 2nd potion is a bad idea.  It's frustrating when you ignore alchemists and the opponent goes crazy with them and takes 10 minute turns.
  • Torturer + Village - see tournament.  Yes - there are times when you can pull it out after some abusive torturing.  This is extremely satisfying.  Those moments don't happen enough to compensate for majority of cases where one person starts playing multiple torturers a turn, and you have to choose between taking curses (and thus making future multiple torturer turns harder for you), or just not having a turn.  Whoever hits it first has most likely won - but you have to play it out forever.  Another card I veto from 2nd player if I can.  Strongly recommend against playing this engine when newer players are at the board - as it can drive them from the hobby.
  • Scrying Pool - I love this card.  I do not love the additional time per game that it ads.  The last time I played dominion in real life with physical cards, we played a 60+ minute game because of scrying pool and king's court.  At least I don't have to press any buttons and I can surf dominionstrategy while my opponent goes on scrying pool madness... unlike torturer.

These are the cards that cause "problems" - either for my win rate, or peoples enjoyment of the game.  Possession, black market cause problems sometimes,  but nothing like the frequency that the above cards do.
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Wingnut

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 02:09:36 pm »
0

In my IRL group there is only one card that is banned: Embargo

People don't like curses, but the way my group fears curses means a 5-2 open with a strong 5 is pretty much game over for whoever other than me has the card (exception Minion).

The fear of curses (even moreso than Possession) also causes Torturer to be vetoed in any game where we decide veto is an option.

Other than those, Young Witch causes problems because of the Bane. Nobody wants and agreed upon Bane, but nobody wants a random 2 or 3 that could be a game changer (Ambassador I'm looking at you) after the rest of the Kingdom is set.
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dondon151

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 02:12:34 pm »
+1

Thief and Sab are really annoying when one player decides that he's lost the game and tries to troll the rest of the way.
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Kuildeous

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 02:30:56 pm »
+15

Quote
there are times when you can pull it out after some abusive torturing.  This is extremely satisfying. 

Best out-of-context quote ever.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 02:31:48 pm »
0

Quote
there are times when you can pull it out after some abusive torturing.  This is extremely satisfying. 

Best out-of-context quote ever.

Can we pleeeaaaaaase get a 'bad pun-vote' button? ;)

theory

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 02:34:49 pm »
+14

Quote
there are times when you can pull it out after some abusive torturing.  This is extremely satisfying. 

Best out-of-context quote ever.

Can we pleeeaaaaaase get a 'bad pun-vote' button? ;)
This is punlikely to happen.
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Galzria

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 02:40:24 pm »
+1

Quote
there are times when you can pull it out after some abusive torturing.  This is extremely satisfying. 

Best out-of-context quote ever.

Ok, that wasn't something that really should've mad me laugh. I'm usually not that vulgar or into innuendo's... But seriously, this site is the last place I would expect something like that and it came from so far outta left field... I just about choked on my coffee.  ;D Well done sir.
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Voltgloss

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 06:32:58 pm »
+14

In my IRL group there is only one card that is banned: Embargo

Torturer innuendo is all well and good, but I prefer this simple yet beautiful irony.
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Morgrim7

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 10:04:54 pm »
0

Uhhh, I think this strayed from the original topic.  ::)
You know what has really caused problems for me in my early Dominion days? Surprisingly, Thief. Everybody that played with me absolutely hated that card. I don't know why... usually (now that I look back at myself) it was a help, not a hinderance... but then again at first I didn't like Chapel either... I didn't understand why I would actually want to get rid of my cards...eeesh ???
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I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

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Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Davio

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 02:13:48 am »
0

The only card I know of that's ever caused a serious rules problem is ironworks (with trader or possession).
Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead, what do you get from Ironworks?
a) +1 Action
b) +1 Card
c) +1 Action and +1 Card
d) +$1
e) +1 Action, +1 Card and +$1
f) Nothing
g) A Blue Dog
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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 10:21:07 am »
0

The only card I know of that's ever caused a serious rules problem is ironworks (with trader or possession).
Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead, what do you get from Ironworks?
a) +1 Action
b) +1 Card
c) +1 Action and +1 Card
d) +$1
e) +1 Action, +1 Card and +$1
f) Nothing
g) A Blue Dog

G, obviously.
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Deadlock39

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 10:36:06 am »
0

h) Blue dog food

Papa Luigi

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 11:40:53 am »
0

Do you mean, like, if you're introducing the game to new players? If I'm playing a game with the base set I try to avoid cards that have too great an effect on the strategy. Particularly Gardens and Chapel. For those I'll try to introduce them after a few games.
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Morgrim7

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 12:36:46 pm »
0

Do you mean, like, if you're introducing the game to new players? If I'm playing a game with the base set I try to avoid cards that have too great an effect on the strategy. Particularly Gardens and Chapel. For those I'll try to introduce them after a few games.
Anything. You could be introducing Dominion to a new player, or be playing a game on iso. with your friends. Anything that qualifies as being annoying.
Example:
I introduce Dominion to a new player using a complicated card like Possession. In this case, Possession would be creating the problem. Or, say you were playing at a friends house, and set up a long Torturer chain, and he rage quit, and never played with you again. In this case, Torturer would be causing the problem.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Papa Luigi

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 01:00:56 pm »
0

In that case, here's one - long Villager/Market/Laboratory/etc. chains when playing in person. It can be hard to determine the number of actions. I have a method for doing it - you count one for yourself, add up all the +actions on all cards in play, and then subtract one for each action in play - but it slows things down and sometimes causes problems if someone plays so many Villages he just assumes he has unlimited actions when in fact he might go over by one.
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Morgrim7

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 01:12:11 pm »
0

In that case, here's one - long Villager/Market/Laboratory/etc. chains when playing in person. It can be hard to determine the number of actions. I have a method for doing it - you count one for yourself, add up all the +actions on all cards in play, and then subtract one for each action in play - but it slows things down and sometimes causes problems if someone plays so many Villages he just assumes he has unlimited actions when in fact he might go over by one.
This is a little off topic, but another good method for this would be to say aloud how many actions you have left after you play each card, i.e. I have 1 action, now I play a Village so I have 2 actions, now I play moat and have 1 action, etc.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Dsell

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 01:25:41 pm »
+1

In that case, here's one - long Villager/Market/Laboratory/etc. chains when playing in person. It can be hard to determine the number of actions. I have a method for doing it - you count one for yourself, add up all the +actions on all cards in play, and then subtract one for each action in play - but it slows things down and sometimes causes problems if someone plays so many Villages he just assumes he has unlimited actions when in fact he might go over by one.
This is a little off topic, but another good method for this would be to say aloud how many actions you have left after you play each card, i.e. I have 1 action, now I play a Village so I have 2 actions, now I play moat and have 1 action, etc.

Again off topic, but IRL I like to stagger action cards based on how many actions a card gives me. So a lab chain would be a straight line of cards. But a village/smithy chain would grow vertically as well as horizontally: a smithy is played next to the top half of the village and another village next to the bottom half. We do the same for KC and TR. This could be an issue with limited space or especially large chains, but it's a good way to visually keep track of how many actions are left.
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Davio

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 01:47:00 pm »
0

It's not hard to keep track: Villages just give ONE extra action.

So just "up" your count with every Village and "down" it with terminals. Neither up nor down with Peddler-type cantrips.
And start with one, and do it out loud.

So for example: Start (1), Village (2), Smithy (1), Village (2), Smithy (1), Militia (0).
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GigaKnight

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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 02:03:34 pm »
+3

The best way, IMO, to keep track if your actions IRL is to build a simple tree with your cards.  See attached.  You instantly know whether you have more actions by looking at the leaf nodes.  Do they say +Action?  Then you have that many actions left.
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Re: A list of cards that cause problems
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 02:07:54 pm »
0

The best way, IMO, to keep track if your actions IRL is to build a simple tree with your cards.  See attached.  You instantly know whether you have more actions by looking at the leaf nodes.  Do they say +Action?  Then you have that many actions left.

Yeah, this is exactly what I do! Thanks for the graphic! It works well for us.
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