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[WanderingWinder]

So I played a game with this board yesterday:
Forge, Moneylender, Native Village, Navigator, Peddler, Potion, Stash, Trade Route, Transmute, Treasure Map, and Village
I had 2/5 and went first.
Please think of what you would do and maybe post it in the comments before looking at what I did and reading some comments below in spoilers.

So if you didn't check the link, I went Native Village/Stash and won in 16 turns. Could've had the 7th province on 17 if my opponent hadn't ended her misery. Might this even be stronger than Chancellor/Stash?

[rinkworks]

I looked at the game, but even doing that, I'm embarrassed to say I still can't figure out why that combo worked.  Can you explain the logic of it here?

[WanderingWinder]

The point is that native village will dig everything onto the Native Village mat (always take it for the first option, not to put into had, until the game is ending), so that you cycle your deck every other turn or faster. Once you have that 4th stash, you're getting a province every turn or two. And you can make sure that you aren't NVing your stashes onto the mat because you can place the stashes wherever you want in your deck.
Hope that cleared it up.

[ShuffleNCut]

Interesting match.  I like it.  Requires actual paying attention to game state and deck order.  My favorite was turn 13 for the foreshadowing..

[rinkworks]

And you can make sure that you aren't NVing your stashes onto the mat because you can place the stashes wherever you want in your deck.
Hope that cleared it up.

It did, thank you!  It was that last piece that I couldn't quite figure.

[ackack]

Very nifty, would not have thought of that. Then again, I think I have willingly touched Stash once ever, so it's not a card I'm accustomed to thinking about.

[Anon79]

This combo deserves an article on the main blog. With fast trashing or pseudo-trashing, Stashes mean perfect shuffles! And Stash/NV looks even better than Stash/Chapel, which I just encountered...

[DG]

I had a quick look at this again and I'm sure Winder had perfect draws, only buying three native villages and putting every other card of deck onto the native village mat, apart from those villages. The stashes were always safe, but the junk still needed to be put on the mat. It's a nice idea, well played, but nowhere close to a sure fire bet.

[WanderingWinder]

I don't think I had perfect draws, but I don't doubt I had very good luck. I don't, however connect this with 'only' needing three NVs (which is actually the most I'd really ever expect to need in such a deck). I think the biggest luck is that I was able to get the third stash so quickly.

[Superdad]

I don't see the argument for perfect draws. Every shuffle, he puts the stashes on the top, so after that turn, it's very likely that he'll hit a double, or even triple native villiage turn with all the stashes being safe in the discard pile. That's the only "lucky" thing I can see that happened in there - unless I'm missing something - and obviously there's no luck involved there. The only luck factor in the game was that his NV's didn't hit themselves often (or at all?). I suppose that is slight luck, but remember, if the NV's hit themselves, they didn't his his copper, so he likely could have bought another NV on his NV turns. It would have slightly delayed him (maybe not even), but I don't think it would have done much. Maybe he would have been a turn or two later, but having that many provinces that early is just awesome - especially from a combo I've never even considered before (I mean, Stash... c'mon!)

This is actually brilliant use of Native Villiage. Since you stack all your stashes, they are essentially ALWAYS safe from Native Villiage, so the NV's will just trash your deck really quickly. I think it was a great excercise in deck control. I especially like the copper buy on turn 8 or so, knowing that he needed it to avoid a reshuffle (and get that vital 8th copper in the NV mat for a province purchase on the NV turn).

Just a brilliant game.

This combo definitely deserves a blog.

[tko]

I don't see the argument for perfect draws. Every shuffle, he puts the stashes on the top, so after that turn, it's very likely that he'll hit a double, or even triple native villiage turn with all the stashes being safe in the discard pile. That's the only "lucky" thing I can see that happened in there - unless I'm missing something - and obviously there's no luck involved there. The only luck factor in the game was that his NV's didn't hit themselves often (or at all?). I suppose that is slight luck, but remember, if the NV's hit themselves, they didn't his his copper, so he likely could have bought another NV on his NV turns. It would have slightly delayed him (maybe not even), but I don't think it would have done much. Maybe he would have been a turn or two later, but having that many provinces that early is just awesome - especially from a combo I've never even considered before (I mean, Stash... c'mon!)

This is actually brilliant use of Native Villiage. Since you stack all your stashes, they are essentially ALWAYS safe from Native Villiage, so the NV's will just trash your deck really quickly. I think it was a great excercise in deck control. I especially like the copper buy on turn 8 or so, knowing that he needed it to avoid a reshuffle (and get that vital 8th copper in the NV mat for a province purchase on the NV turn).

Just a brilliant game.

This combo definitely deserves a blog.

My quess is the argument for the draws is that the 3 Native Villages didn't collide - for example, turns 8 & 10 employ pseudo-trashing by all 3 Native Villages.

Interesting match.  I like it.  Requires actual paying attention to game state and deck order.  My favorite was turn 13 for the foreshadowing..

When I read the game log, I was all like... Copper...what is he doing?  Then when I saw the 8 Copper->Province buy, I was amazed - I can't imagine having the wherewithall to make that timely Copper buy.

[WanderingWinder]

I definitely think I was a little lucky. I got 5/2 which was a huge boon. And I was able to buy my 2nd stash on 3 and 3rd on 5. That's better than I imagine you're going to get 95% of the time. That doesn't mean the deck won't be fast in the average case, just probably not 7th province on turn 17 fast.

[Zaphod]

Nice combo.  Stash isn't very interesting by itself, but it combines well with several cards.  My favorite is the Chancellor.  A Chancellor/Stash engine is fairly hard to beat, and is about the only situation where I'd ever buy more than one Chancellor.

[Superdad]

Ya I tried this board on a 4:3 a few times and the combo is quite slow. Having stash early gives you that crucial "silver" that is immune to NV. The worst thing about the 4:3 start is when you get those $4 on turns 3, and 4 and miss the reshuffle. At that point you really just have to dump the plan and go with something else.