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Author Topic: loophole?  (Read 13597 times)

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jonts26

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2012, 02:08:19 am »
0

It's one of the points in the FAQ thread.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1994.0
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michaeljb

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 03:00:03 am »
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True, and that's good, but even though it's in the FAQ I still like it's....frequently asked...
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michaeljb

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 01:42:49 pm »
0

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Davio

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 02:00:53 pm »
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I love these topics, they remind me of me some time ago. :)
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michaeljb

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2012, 03:57:35 pm »
0

I love these topics, they remind me of me some time ago. :)

This reminds me of theory...I was really surprised when I read that he had once thought Big Money was the best. Don't remember where I read this though...maybe his AMA on reddit?
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greatexpectations

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2012, 10:48:35 pm »
0

True, and that's good, but even though it's in the FAQ I still like it's....frequently asked...

well to be fair i have just about all of the known information about the official online version in that thread too. it hasn't stopped that discussion from popping up again. 

if you have any ideas for reformatting the FAQ in a way that we can try to minimize this sort of thing i am all ears.  but the reality is that some users just won't read it or search for it.  and of course some will actually go and read through it but they will still want to ask their questions.
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theory

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2012, 11:01:43 am »
+2

Mods, is there any way to force new users to read theory's BM article? Sure people would probably lie about it (like most end-user agreements), but maybe it would work, and if not, they would learn why it was a requirement before long...
Hehe.  I don't think this is a worthwhile endeavor.  There will be people floating around with wrongheaded notions, and we just have to accept that.  Someone who thinks Dominion is broken because of money is preferable to someone who thinks vaccines cause autism.

I used to be one of these people.  I played 1k games of base Dominion on BSW, and money does kind of dominate the base game.
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Jfrisch

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2012, 02:11:46 pm »
+4

So, I want to make the point that there is a TREMENDOUS difference between Theory, after 1000 games, having determined that Money focused strategies are fairly dominant in the base game, and the assertion's people make to these types of requests. In particular the realization that occurs after, say, a dozen games that, WOW buying only money stomps buying actions willy-nilly, is on a very different level than a master saying, you know, after having played a tremendous number of games, I've explored most of the strategy space here and determined that Money strategies are superior to engine strategies more often than I would like.

In particular, I find it frustrating that as soon as somebody makes the important but relatively basic observation that the goal of the game is to buy victory points and that money is an efficient way of doing so the community harps on and claims that expansions are the necessary fix. No, no they are not. Base game is not solved as soon as somebody realizes that big money smithy is a good idea. The beginner's "money is always dominant" and Donald X's buy a select few actions are not the same point.

      If the people asking these questions were saying "we've played the base game and realized that, though there exist exceptions made possible by cards like throne room and chapel, the majority of strategies involve buying relatively few terminals and we've played enough that we can figure out what these terminals before the game starts and what non-terminals are worth getting over silver with them" then yes, they're done with the base game, and hurray for expansions. I suspect a point like this can come well before theory's 1000 games and maybe after as few as a hundred games, the base game might feel somewhat stale. If they are bored because they've thoroughly explored game space, by all means recommend expansions.

That's not what's going on with these BM rules all post, they haven't explored  game-space they don't know the exceptions, and they follow BM to the letter to a ridiculous extent (I'll take another silver rather than a festival). Unless a player seriously seems like they've figured out most of the base game it is disingenuous and wrong to confirm their fears that Big money is absolutely dominant. Remember: what you think of when you think of big money and what they think of are a world apart.
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rrenaud

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2012, 02:17:25 pm »
0

We should just lock and redirect the big money threads to one canonical big money thread.  Instead of having the same argument every time something like this gets posted.  Stackoverflow does this well.
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theory

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2012, 02:17:53 pm »
+6

Well, you also have to remember that most games do not feature the depth that Dominion has.  When I play a new game a dozen times (far more than most people ever play most games), and discover a very strong strategy, it is much more likely that the strategy really is very strong, than the game having thousands-of-games-of-depth.

Our mission here (should we choose to accept it) is not to belittle someone for not bothering to find out that BM is beatable, but to show them that Dominion is not like those other games and has meaning even thousands of games later.
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Jfrisch

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2012, 03:06:08 pm »
0

To confirm, the people who I find annoying are those who recommend expansions in order to get beyond the "wow money is really good" phase of learning rather than the posters themselves who, understandably, don't get that there is strategy beyond that.
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Kuildeous

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2012, 10:35:58 am »
+1

This reminds me of theory...I was really surprised when I read that he had once thought Big Money was the best. Don't remember where I read this though...maybe his AMA on reddit?

He posted it here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2376.msg37360#msg37360

</tardis>
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qmech

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2012, 01:53:38 pm »
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I played 1k games of base Dominion on BSW

You poor thing.  You have my sympathy.

Also, in before the 9th Doctor.
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michaeljb

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Re: loophole?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2012, 06:02:42 pm »
0

This reminds me of theory...I was really surprised when I read that he had once thought Big Money was the best. Don't remember where I read this though...maybe his AMA on reddit?

He posted it here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2376.msg37360#msg37360

</tardis>

Funny, I see I already +1'd it but couldn't remember where it was :p
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