Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Dominion: Finance (Untested)  (Read 11555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: April 26, 2012, 11:36:39 pm »
0

The primary theme of this fan expansion is the use of a healthy mix of Action and Treasure cards. All comments are welcome! I hope to turn all of these into images and many of them into actual cards someday soon.

Alms
$1
When you play this, trash 3 of your Treasure cards from play. If you do, +1 VP.
($5 Treasure)

(The effect and coin bonus of the trashed Treasures should remain, if I understand the rules correctly.)

Aristocrat
+2 Buys
Treasure cards cost $1 less this turn (but not less than $0).
-----
1 VP
($4 Action – Victory)

(Sort of like Bridge...but then again not really at all.)

Bank Note
$0
You may reveal a Treasure card from your hand. Play it twice.
($4 Treasure)

(Not sure if $4 is too low a cost, but $5 seems too high. This definitely changes in attractiveness with Platinum out. I was thinking of putting a limit of "costing $6 or less" for that reason.)

Barter
Gain a Silver into your hand.
($4 Action)

(A new twist on the common $4-cost, $2-giving action cards.)

Bounty
$?
When you play this, reveal and discard the top 4 cards of your deck. +$1 for every Action card revealed.
-----
1 VP
($6 Treasure – Victory)

(Better in an action-heavy deck, but is itself a Treasure, requiring you to find a good balance...or use Cartographers and such.)

Cathedral
+1 Action
-----
While this is in play, each time you play an Action card, +1 Card.

You may only buy this with Coppers.
($5 Action)

(Cathedrals were built on the backs of the poor. I don't think this wording really works, but I hope it is understood what is meant.)

Cultivate
+1 Card
Reveal your hand. +1 Action per Action card in your hand.
($4 Action)

(Gives you as many actions as you need. Worse than a Village in some cases, but worth it if you can get more than 2 Actions out of it.)

Discovery
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top 5 cards of the Black Market deck. You may trash this. If you do, add one of the corresponding Kingdom piles to the supply. Cards from that pile cost $2 less until the end of your turn (but not less than $0). Put the revealed cards on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order.
Setup: Make a Black Market deck out of one copy of each Kingdom card not in the supply.
($5 Action)

(I have sort of play-tested this, and it is a lot of fun. Another use for the Black Market deck in-game, which adds lots of variety to the game.)

Feudal Village
+2 Actions
Each player with less than 7 cards in hand draws 2 cards, reveals his hand, and discards up to 1 Reaction or Attack card of your choice from his hand (except Feudal Village).
($5 Action – Attack)

(This is the first idea for a Village Attack card that I have ever seen. It's meant to be combined with other Attack cards, to sort of prepare for the hurt, or to do just the opposite if desired.)

Hideaway
$1
-----
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may set both this and the gained card aside until the end of the game.
($5 Treasure)

(Like Island, but with obvious differences. Island is one of my favorite cards, and I think I'd like this even more.)

Investigator
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck. He puts one back (except a Treasure card) and discards the rest.
($2 Action)

(Not sure if this should be an Attack. It's meant to hurt Action-less players and help others.)

Investment
+$1 at the start of each of your turns.
-----
When you gain this, you may trash a Gold from your hand. If you do, play this. Otherwise, trash this.
($3 Action – Duration)

(I haven't played with this particular version of this card, but testing of an older version proved this concept to be very strategic and interesting.)

Judge
+1 Card
+$1
Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action.
-----
When a player plays a card containing the phrase “choose one,” you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, cast a vote for one of the available options. Unless there is a tie, the player of the card may only choose the option on that card with the most votes. Return this to your hand at the end of the player’s turn.
($3 Action – Reaction)

(This is just a fun idea, and I don't think it would be very practical in most games, but maybe something could be worked out.)

King
Worth 1 VP for every 3+X Treasure cards in your deck (round down), where X is equal to the number of Kings in your deck.
($6 Victory)

(I know similar ideas have been made before, but none quite like this that I know of.)

Knight
+1 Action
-----
While this is in play, when you gain a Curse card or trash a Treasure card, you may place a card from your hand here. At any time (or at the end of the game), trash this and all cards here, and gain a non-Kingdom Victory card into your hand with a VP value up to the number of cards trashed.
($5 Action – Duration)

(Designed to be the winner of Tournaments, as well as a soft counter to Cursing attacks. Not sure if this is too powerful.)

Lost Fortune
$0
You have one less $ to spend this turn (but not less than $0). At the start of your next turn, +$3
($4 Treasure – Duration)

(I'm not sure what happens when Alms or Pub trashes a Lost Fortune just played, but if it needs a new rule, I would say that Lost Fortune does not give $ on the next turn.)

Magistrate
+2 Cards
You may discard a Treasure card from your hand. If you do, choose one: trash any number of cards from your hand; or each other player with more than 4 cards in hand discards a Treasure card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no Treasure), and you get +$ equal to the $ value (not the cost) of one of the discarded Treasures of your choice (including yours).
($5 Action – Attack)

(If a variable value treasure like Bank is chosen (? In the corners), no $ is received.)

Merchant
+5 Cards
The $ value (not the cost) of all Treasure cards is $1 less this turn (but not less than $0).
($3 Action)

(I'm not sure if this wording has the effect I intended it to have on variable value Treasure cards, but I hope those get reduced as well.)

Miser
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Treasure card, and put it into your hand.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may set this and a Treasure card aside from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return this and the Treasure card to your hand. If you do, discard up to 5 of the top cards of your deck.
($4 Action – Reaction)

(Hang on to your cash! Don't let go!)

Politician
+$1
Each player (including you) returns up to 1 Curse card from his hand to the Supply, and then chooses one: he gains a Copper into his hand; or he gains a Curse card. +1 VP per player (including you) who did not gain a Curse card.
($5 Action – Attack)

(The Curse-returning part is meant to keep Politician from being an infinite VP gainer. It still might be very unbalanced, though.)

Pub
+1 Buy
Immediately play up to 2 Treasure cards. Trash one of them. You may return one of your VP tokens. If you do, +1 Action and draw up to 5 cards in hand.
-----
When a Treasure card costing $3 or more is trashed, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +1 VP.
($5 Action – Reaction)

(This can be a one-card engine, but it will be extremely difficult to get your deck just right to land many points with it. Also, see the note on Alms.)

Rich Tax
+1 Action
+$1
At the start of your next turn, trash this.
-----
While this is in play, if another player plays 3 or more Treasure cards during his Buy phase, all cards cost $1 more until the end of his turn.
($3 Action – Duration)

(Obviously, designed to counter Treasure-heavy decks.)

Sewer
+1 Card
Choose one: gain a card costing up to $2; or move 2 Kingdom cards from the Supply to the Trash pile. You may play a Sewer.
($2 Action)

(Chains itself, depletes piles, and can get you Estates. You may be able to end the game quickly with Sewer, but most likely you will lose unless you happen to get some non-Estate Victory points. Otherwise, you can just use Sewer to deplete some Kingdom card you hate.)

Spendthrift
+1 Action
Gain a Debt. If you do, +$3, +1 Buy. Otherwise, trash this.
Setup: Add Debt to the Supply.
($3 Action)
||
Debt
-2 VP
The first time you buy this card in any turn, +$1, +1 Buy.
 (This is not a Kingdom card. Curses remain in the Supply.)
($0 Curse)

(Debt is a Curse card, but it is not a Curse, in case of any wording differences on cursing cards. Debt is in the game if and only if Spendthrift is in the game, and the # of Debts in a setup will be 8 for 2 players and 12 for 3 players and up, like Victory Kingdom cards.)

Surplus
$1
When you play this, each player with less than 6 cards in hand gains a Copper into his hand.
($3 Treasure – Attack)

(A Treasure - Attack card that may actually help more than it hurts in some cases.)

Town
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; or +1 Buy.
-----
When you shuffle, you may put this anywhere in your deck.
($2 Action)

(This card will have a unique back, like Stash. This is meant to serve as whatever vital element your deck needs, wherever you need it, but nothing more.)

Wealth
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure card and an Action card. The player to your left selects one revealed Treasure and one revealed Action (except Wealth). Take those cards into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.
($6 Action)

(Best if you have a pretty even spread of Action and Treasure cards, and not too many Wealth cards.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 08:37:06 am by BubbleBoy »
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Morgrim7

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1701
  • Torturer chains? How primitive.
  • Respect: +749
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 11:54:01 pm »
0

Nice cards! I like all ecxept Bounty. Its over priced. Why would you pay $6 for a gimped Harvest with 1 VP?
Logged
"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 12:32:16 am »
0

Nice cards! I like all ecxept Bounty. Its over priced. Why would you pay $6 for a gimped Harvest with 1 VP?

Because it's a Treasure instead of an Action.
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 07:04:58 am »
0

Nice cards! I like all ecxept Bounty. Its over priced. Why would you pay $6 for a gimped Harvest with 1 VP?

Because it's a Treasure instead of an Action.
That and the cards don't have to be differently named. I mean, discard 3 Pearl Divers and you have a card that is better than Gold.
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Morgrim7

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1701
  • Torturer chains? How primitive.
  • Respect: +749
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 09:20:41 am »
0

Nice cards! I like all ecxept Bounty. Its over priced. Why would you pay $6 for a gimped Harvest with 1 VP?

Because it's a Treasure instead of an Action.
That and the cards don't have to be differently named. I mean, discard 3 Pearl Divers and you have a card that is better than Gold.
True, but I dont think I would pay $6 for that unless I didn't have many good actions except cheap cantrips, because there is always a chance that they will flip over your good treasures or actions.
Logged
"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1325
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1384
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 01:01:58 pm »
0

Cathedral
+1 Action
-----
While this is in play, each time you play an Action card, +1 Card.

You may only buy this with Coppers.
($5 Action)

I don't think this wording works. How about "You may not buy this if you have any treasure other than Copper in play"?
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3296
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4443
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 02:55:29 pm »
0

Cathedral
+1 Action
-----
While this is in play, each time you play an Action card, +1 Card.

You may only buy this with Coppers.
($5 Action)

I don't think this wording works. How about "You may not buy this if you have any treasure other than Copper in play"?

Or alternatively, "You may not buy this if you have fewer than 5 Coppers in play"? Depending on how you'd prefer for the restriction to work.
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 03:26:43 pm »
0

Both of those wordings would be similar to my intentions. However, I don't want the card to be purchasable using $ from actions (way too easy to make a super engine that way), and I don't want people to be able to buy multiple copies just by having 5 Coppers out.

Here's a wording I just thought of, adjusted from AJD's: "You may not buy this if you have fewer than 5 Coppers in play. When you buy this, discard 5 of your Coppers from play." Alternately, "When you gain this, discard 5 Coppers from play. If you do not, return this to the Supply." The only problem with this that I might like to adjust for is price changes in Cathedral by cards like Highway, but maybe it's better to keep it like this anyway. What do you think?
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1325
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1384
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 04:34:23 pm »
0

Here's a wording I just thought of, adjusted from AJD's: "You may not buy this if you have fewer than 5 Coppers in play. When you buy this, discard 5 of your Coppers from play." Alternately, "When you gain this, discard 5 Coppers from play. If you do not, return this to the Supply." The only problem with this that I might like to adjust for is price changes in Cathedral by cards like Highway, but maybe it's better to keep it like this anyway. What do you think?
I think that if it needs those restrictions for balance, you're better off making it a Prize or giving it a Potion cost.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2012, 08:22:14 am »
0

Here's a wording I just thought of, adjusted from AJD's: "You may not buy this if you have fewer than 5 Coppers in play. When you buy this, discard 5 of your Coppers from play." Alternately, "When you gain this, discard 5 Coppers from play. If you do not, return this to the Supply." The only problem with this that I might like to adjust for is price changes in Cathedral by cards like Highway, but maybe it's better to keep it like this anyway. What do you think?
I think that if it needs those restrictions for balance, you're better off making it a Prize or giving it a Potion cost.
Neither of those things would make sense with the concept, the first would restrict me to only one copy of this card, and I HATE Potions. Besides, why didn't they just make Grand Market cost $7 or $8? Because it's not as fun or interesting.

Here's an expanded idea: "When you gain this, discard 5 of your Coppers from play. If you do not, return this to the Supply and gain up to 3 Coppers."
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Morgrim7

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1701
  • Torturer chains? How primitive.
  • Respect: +749
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2012, 10:17:04 am »
0

I HATE Potions.
??? Why!?! I LOVE POTIONS!!!
Logged
"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 04:39:47 pm »
0

This is so balanced I have trouble believing it's untested.  Good job.  Looks fun too.
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 08:53:57 pm »
0

This is so balanced I have trouble believing it's untested.  Good job.  Looks fun too.
Thanks. Though this is mostly untested, I have spent quite a bit of time comparing these cards to existing ones, weighing different possible interactions, attempting to formulate broken combos, etc. So I've gone as far as I can to test these cards just using my mind. I'm sure that if/when I actually test these, some broken elements will emerge, but until then, I think these are about as good as I can make them.
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2012, 09:08:55 pm »
0

I've seen the Bank Note idea before and the balancing with Platinum is the main thing, I think, but it also works quite well with Bank.  I think it is quite similar to Venture, except it can be drawn dead and doesn't sift.  On the other hand, it does offer a little bit more control over what bonus you get.  I think it really needs playtesting at both $4 and $5 price points, in sets both with and without Platinum and Bank.


Cathedral is REALLY strong.  It turns a regular village into a lv. 2 City, Smithy becomes +4 cards... and if you can get a few Cathedrals in play, it's just ridiculous.  The Copper restriction might be enough to keep it in check.  But as others have noted, the wording needs to be made clearer.

Feudal Village does not seem like an effective Attack card to me.  It has the potential to hurt other players by eliminating their attacks, but I imagine that it would help more than hurt since you let them draw 2 cards!  If Feudal Village is the ONLY attack card in the set, it is absolutely helping the others.

Hideaway is quite neat.

I'd rephrase Investigator to say "puts back one non-Treasure card" -- it's a little less awkward, I think.  I wouldn't classify it as an attack unless you got to choose what to put back.

Is Investment a permanent Duration card?

King -- is this actually worth getting multiples of?

1 King = 1 VP per 4 treasure
2 Kings = 2 VP per 5 treasure
3 Kings = 3 VP per 6 treasure
4 Kings = 4 VP per 7 treasure

Granted, the potential value DOES go up.  But it also increases the requisite treasure in order to get any points at all.  Suppose you had 20 treasures.

1 King = 5 VP
2 Kings = 8 VP
3 Kings = 9 VP
4 Kings = 8 VP

In this case, the return for getting more Kings isn't that great, and it can actually hurt you if you do not have enough treasure to make it to the next level.  My example is for 20 treasure cards, which is actually on the high side even when playing straight BM.  With these numbers, only the first King is worth $6.

Knight is pretty neat, but it looks like something you'd only want one of (since it would require significant investment to build up more than one).  Additionally, it can become functionally useless in kingdoms without cursing or trashing.  The latter point aside, it seems really interesting.  Needs testing!

Lost Fortune needs rule clarifications.  As it is worded, I think I could play Lost Fortune as my first treasure and not face the penalty (since I can't go less than $0), and then proceed to play more treasures without any drawback from Lost Fortune.

Magistrate is very strong.  It is like Cutpurse with more options and more power (+cards, optional trashing, can hit Platinum and give you that much).  $5 might still be fine.  Test! :P

Merchant is really interesting.  Perhaps the wording you want is something like "While this is in play, -$1 for each Treasure card you play".  But then I suppose you'd have trouble accounting for things like Horn of Plenty... hmm.  Tricky.

How does Curse-returning doesn't help much in preventing Politician from being an infinite VP gainer.  Opponents have to have the Curse in hand to return it, and then they have to choose to gain a Curse to keep you from gaining the VP.  Most are probably inclined to take the Copper.  And of course, you would never take the Curse yourself.  But I don't think it's a problem either way.  Monument potentially allows you to gain VP.

Pub is really neat.  First, it lets you play Treasure during your Action phase, bringing in the kind of quirkiness currently only possible with Black Market.  Next, it does something different with VP tokens.  This means it synergizes very well with VP gainers like Monument, Bishop, and especially Goons (with which you might gain extra Coppers to feed Pub).  Without any of these available, Pub still lets you gain VP.  It does this better if opponents also have Pub; if they don't, you'll need to set it up yourself.

If you'd like to make it easier to use as an Engine, you could change the Reaction to "reveal this and discard a card from your hand".  With two Pubs in hand, you can play one and then use the second one to gain a VP token which you immediately use to draw back up to 5; then you can play the Pub you still have in your hand.  It's still difficult to use because you can't draw more than 5 with it.  I imagine it would easily get bogged down when greening.

One point of clarification is needed -- when you trash a Treasure card with Pub, does its money value remain spendable during your Buy phase?  If it does (and that's what happens when you use Mint and have extra coin and buys, right?) then it could get extremely hard to track if you manage to chain multiple Pubs and play and trash multiple Treasures with it.

The relationship between Spendthrift and Debt is confusing.  First, you say that it is not a Kingdom card.  So can it be bought?  If it can only be gained via spendthrift, the "+$1, +1 Buy" never comes into play.  If it can be purchased, then I suppose its purpose is to let you get an extra $1 in a turn in exchange for taking on the Curse.  I think a bigger issue is making it a Curse type card in the first place.  There are indeed wording differences on cursing cards, and they are not consistent.  Moreover, does the presence of Debt mean that cursing attacks become even more powerful once the regular Curses run out, i.e. are you obligated to take Debt if there are no more Curses?

I find Town to be a little too similar to Pawn.

I made lots of comments, but didn't touch on everything.  Anything I didn't mention, I probably like it but didn't have anything interesting to say about it. :)

Overall I really like it.  I think the most problematic card is King.  The math just doesn't work, unless I'm doing something wrong!
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2012, 10:22:38 pm »
0

I like Spendthrift and Debt, although I think Spendthrift is may be a smidge underpowered.  It seems too painful to use it more than one or two times for key purchases like Goons, or maybe your first Gold?  Then you have to trash it.  Compare to Mining Village, which seems like a card balanced right on point, and gives you a card and 2$ if you choose to remove a 4$ card from your deck.  Spendthrift gives you 3$, roughly the same amount of money, and since you can only use it one time imo, you are also removing a 3-4$ card from your deck.  That would put it equal to Mining Village, except for the curse!

Spendthrift could eeeasily produce 4$ and be like Baron. 5$ even.  You don't have to play Mining Village for 0$ the turn you want to get rid of it.

I like Debt though and think it's a neat, balanced, "gametwister" like Duchess.  I think you shouldn't tie it to Spendthrift at all, just make it a Kingdom card.    Spendthrift can be designed to gain Curses or Estates or "The cheapest Kingdom card in the supply".  Or let Spendthrift bring Debts into the game Young Witch style as an eleventh kingdom card. 
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2012, 06:22:30 pm »
0

What do you think about putting a limit of "costing $7 or less" on Bank Note? I would still want it to combo with Bank, simply because of its name, but I agree that doubling Platinums with it could get shaky.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the wording on Cathedral. I'm leaning towards just keeping it the way it is and explaining how to deal with it in the rule book.

I've been pondering Feudal Village more than any other card. It is by far the strangest of these cards in my mind. How about an effect more like this: "+1 Card, +2 Actions, Each other player draws up to 6 cards in hand, reveals his hand, and discards a Reaction or Attack card of your choice (except Feudal Village)."

I also like Hideaway. :)

I will change Investigator as suggested, thanks.

Yes, Investment is permanent. The original version let you trash it to gain a Gold, but that was found to never really be used (and was used a bit too much when it gained into hand), so that was taken off.

I tried to design King in such a way that you couldn't win with just BM and King. I've thought about this a good bit, though, and I think there is a bit too much of a change in value from King to King. Maybe 2 VP for every 6+X Treasures would work better? That's a bit chunky though, and requires you to keep close track of your Kings and Treasures to be used effectively.

Knight CAN be used in any game if you buy your Curses, but in that case it would be even less popular. It's true that for the most part you probably only want one per game, but its demand varies highly depending on the set. Also, when has the Outpost pile ever run out?

Since Lost Fortune uses a wording that has never really been used before, I think I will get to make my own rules for it. I will try to clearly explain how to play this when I write the rule book. However, maybe it would be clearer if the $ punishment were reworded as a "while this in in play" clause (and the next turn reward were $4).

The biggest downside to Magistrate is that it doesn't really stack at all. Most of the time, you can only use the Attack part of it once in a turn. Also, you are required to discard a Treasure card from your hand in order to use it, which can make it dead in a lot of hands depending on your deck (and what you choose to trash with it). One use it can always have is to discard your Treasure card to get the money back from it, basically playing the Treasure during your turn, which can be fun, but is probably not worth $5.

Yeah, Merchant definitely goes well with Horn of Plenty and Lost Fortune and things, but that's part of the point: It isn't supposed to work well with just BM, but it goes nicely in a more interesting deck.

Pub may get bogged down when greening, but why are you greening when you have Pub? You should just be getting VP tokens by trashing your Silvers, then buying those Silvers back to do it again next turn. However, a more important issue (also an issue with Alms, especially with Lost Fortune) is how to treat the trashed Treasure: After a bit of thinking and reviewing of the current rules, I say that the effect of a Treasure card trashed from play should remain, since the benefit of a Treasure card is gained when you play it, not by having it in play. Lost Fortune's next turn effect would cease to take place in this case. The way I would suggest keeping track of this is the same way I keep track of Mining Village: Turn the trashed card sideways now and don't put it in the trash pile until after your turn.

Debt was meant to purchasable. I thought that was made clear enough by the "When you buy this" clause on it, as well as the "Add Debt to the Supply" clause on Spendthrift. And yes, you are obligated to gain Debt when you are being forced to gain a Curse card and there are no more Curses, although I expect this will rarely happen, since Debt can be a pretty attractive purchase/Spendthrift gain, and Curses seldom run out anyway.

Spendthrift originally did give $4, but I felt like that was too much, not only because that's immediately almost as good as Platinum (and Curse cards are often easy to get rid of anyway), but also because I didn't want Debts to be emptied too quickly. That's one of the reasons I'm seriously considering increasing the number of Debts available in each game.

I don't know if Spendthrift and Debt should be unlinked, but I'll think about that...

And yes, Town is a lot like Pawn, but it has obvious and significant differences, most importantly stackability and the +2 Actions option, my original intent for this card being to act as a Village that didn't bunch up. I used to have it just give +2 Actions and +1 Buy,  and no choices. Do you like that better?

Thanks for your input! I hope it improves the output. I should start making the images for these cards pretty soon. I guess I'll start with the boring ones that nobody is talking about. :P
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

yuma

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 695
  • Respect: +609
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2012, 08:06:08 pm »
0

I HATE Potions.
??? Why!?! I LOVE POTIONS!!!
Man some people like different cards then you do. That is the beauty of the game. No need to go into a frenzy every time someone has a different preference than you.
Logged

Morgrim7

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1701
  • Torturer chains? How primitive.
  • Respect: +749
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2012, 08:21:43 pm »
0

I HATE Potions.
??? Why!?! I LOVE POTIONS!!!
Man some people like different cards then you do. That is the beauty of the game. No need to go into a frenzy every time someone has a different preference than you.
Yes, I know. I'm just curious to know why he hates Potions.
Logged
"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 09:49:08 pm »
0

Well, if that wasn't a rhetorical question, I suppose I'll answer it: I hate Potions for a number of reasons, but mainly because I think they are unbalanced. Let's say my opponent and I both open Potion/Silver. On turn 3, my opponent has 3+P and buys Familiar. On turn 3, I have 2+P and buy...Pearl Diver. Good game.

Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card. I suppose if I were to make any more potion-cost cards, they would have to have some sort of special function that could make use of their potion cost. Off the top of my head, the only effect I can think of is something that allows you to specifically trash or otherwise target a Potion for benefit.

Besides, Potions don't really fit into an expansion named "Finance."
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

Morgrim7

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1701
  • Torturer chains? How primitive.
  • Respect: +749
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2012, 10:01:36 pm »
0

Well, if that wasn't a rhetorical question, I suppose I'll answer it: I hate Potions for a number of reasons, but mainly because I think they are unbalanced. Let's say my opponent and I both open Potion/Silver. On turn 3, my opponent has 3+P and buys Familiar. On turn 3, I have 2+P and buy...Pearl Diver. Good game.

Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card. I suppose if I were to make any more potion-cost cards, they would have to have some sort of special function that could make use of their potion cost. Off the top of my head, the only effect I can think of is something that allows you to specifically trash or otherwise target a Potion for benefit.

Besides, Potions don't really fit into an expansion named "Finance."
Ahh, I see. Thats one of the reasons why I don't like it, too. But I like it because it adds more strategy and complexity to the game.
Did I tell you that I really like Debt and King? Good Ideas  :).
I don't know about Wealth, though. I think its overpriced. Mabye $5?
Logged
"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2012, 10:10:01 pm »
0

Did I tell you that I really like Debt and King? Good Ideas  :).
I don't know about Wealth, though. I think its overpriced. Mabye $5?
Thanks. :)
And I think Wealth would be underpriced at $5, since it's usually going to be better than Laboratory.
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2012, 10:19:31 pm »
0

To be clear, you gain a Debt everytime you play Spendthrift? Not just on gain?
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2012, 10:58:34 pm »
0

To be clear, you gain a Debt everytime you play Spendthrift? Not just on gain?
You do NOT gain a Debt when you gain Spendthrift, ONLY (and always) when you play it.
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2012, 11:45:15 pm »
0

Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card.

Well, that's not really accurate. Mainly, a Potion in the cost of a card severely throttles the rate at which you can gain copies of the card. It's a good way to balance cards that are extremely powerful especially in large quantities.
Logged

BubbleBoy

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Did you say Black Market?!
  • Respect: +18
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2012, 05:01:09 pm »
0

Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card.

Well, that's not really accurate. Mainly, a Potion in the cost of a card severely throttles the rate at which you can gain copies of the card. It's a good way to balance cards that are extremely powerful especially in large quantities.
What does putting a Potion in the cost do that adding $2, $3, or $4 couldn't do just as well?
Logged
...Or, I guess you could just buy a Province.
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.112 seconds with 20 queries.