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[Jfrisch]

Throne Room, like Treasure map and Fool's gold, is a card which works exceptionally well when it combo's and quite mediocrely when it doesn't. Unlike treasure map and fool's gold, however, what throne-room can combine with varies from board to board and is, in general quite a broad range of cards. Also unlike Treasure map and fool's gold, throne room is invariably a bad opening card.

Throne-room is essentially a very weird village with a bonus (or, if you prefer, an of inverse shanty-town with a bonus), if it doesn't hit you are frustrated, if it does hit (it was worth the price.
   
Note that throne-room applied to even a worthless pearl diver, effectively acts like a village with a moderate bonus (probably one of the stronger 4 cost ones if it was a card) (look at the bottom card of your deck, draw either it or the top 1 + 2 actions). When throne-room hits pawn, you can get a peddler benefit (by choosing +1 action +2 cards, + 1 coin), or use a whole bunch of added flexibility. When throne-room hits a stackable attack (cursers/rabble/noble-brigand/torturer/etc) the end result is stupidly powerful, when throneroom hits a terminal drawer, you can draw an absurd amount of cards. When throneroom hits a good cantrip, you get a village with some very nice extras (for lab you get a level 2 city, for tournament/treasury you get a bazaar). With scheme on the board you can even get a permanent village with endgame explosion potential by constantly top decking throneroom/scheme.

Suffice it to say that if your throneroom hits it is worth it, this implies that if you are going for an engine already, throne room is a good buy once you have a few components ( 3/4 non-throne-room actions is sufficient. ). Now throne-room, like all villages, acts as an engine enabler, if you were already marginal about going for an engine, throne-room makes it worth going for one, village/draw engines gain extra viability when thronerooom is on the board (though they still want either a strong attack or +buy). If there is a stackable attack you can make an engine out of, it is almost certainly worth buying throne-rooms and add them to your engine. A throne roomed witch/mountebank is one of the harshest things in dominion and even the ordinarily maligned noble brigand/saboteur can prove deadly when stacked.

Certain specific cards should immediately make you consider throne room, bridge, which becomes much more potent when stacked, is naturally enhanced by throne room. Scheme can be throne roomed in order to create a permanent extra village per hand or a guaranteed throne room in the endgame. though all attacks benefit from throne room, rabble and torturer, which both offer big draws and are better when stacked are exceptionally fond of it.

Throne-room can be so powerful that certain card are specifically immune from throne-rooms benefits. Haggler, princess, highway, and goons, while all still giving some benefit when throne roomed, all have in play clauses that negate there most potent effects (extra cards, lower prices, extra vp per buy) from being doubled. These cards anti-synergize with throne-room and in general, are not it's best targets (though throne-room can still thrive when used on there support cards)

So when should you not go for throne room? Well, when engine potential is not there. If there are no can-trips present, throne room is nearly always a mistake (very heavy trashing can make it viable). If there is no +buy /strong attack, you should stick to big money X. Throne-room acts as a powerful engine enabler, if there's no reasonable engine to be enabled   the high frequency with which you will draw throne-room dead make it not worth your while.

Works with
Stackable attacks
Scheme
Bridge
Minion
Monument
Hunting Party
Talisman (gain extra cheap actions
Engines in general

Conflicts with
Goons

Tournament (a parried tournament is no good when throne-roomed, you are unlikely to have two provinces in hand at a time, and princess/followers are worse when throned)
Haggler
Highway
Fool's gold
Hoard
Militia
Treasure map
Ghost Ship (though being ghost-shipped allows you to move an unusable Throne Room)
Big money games in general

[DG]

If there are no can-trips present, throne room is a mistake

This isn't entirely true. This game shows DStern looting the black market using an engine powered almost entirely with thrones. http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110319-184003-ba5cae6d.html. This is an extreme case but a more common example might be to open militia/chapel and then buy a throne for use with the militia to reach 5 income, with a plan to use the throne with later purchases too.

[Jfrisch]

Fair, heavy trashing can also suffice, BM filled with cantrips though, does imply there are cantrips.

[cherdano]

I would say "Works with" is missing Conspirator, Wharf, King's Court (since you will be loading up on actions and cantrips anyway) and Tactician (easier to hit TR with your best action).

[Davio]

Conflicts with Outpost, even worse than it does with Tactician.
With Tactician, at least you get the TR back into your discard pile immediately.
With Outpost, the TR stays tied to the Outpost and only gets discarded along with Outpost when you Clean up and try to take your 3rd turn.

Well, the fun part with Outpost at least is that you'll have 3 cards on your next regular turn, so you'll be safe from Minions. :p
Strike that, apparently you get 5 cards.

[jomini]

Tac/outpost is perfectly fine as long as you have a way to be sure to get a tac into your outpost hand. There are lot of cards that let you do that directly (haven, mandarin, royal seal, watchtower, etc.) and who slew of cards that let draw & discard to force the tac into the top 3 cards (warehouse, cellar, embassy, etc.).

Outpost/TR isn't great, but if your OP turns are going to be any good, then they likely be fairly action heavy and TR can be a good edition there.

[Jfrisch]

So throne room, SHOULD conflict with outpost, but in any situation where outpost is a worthwhile card (i.e. where you can likely get full hands from it, and actions are cheap) throneroom probably doesn't. That is, you don't go outpost unless you have a really strong engine roaring, in which case, throne room is nice.

[dondon151]

I'd posit that Throne Room does conflict with Outpost because there's a greater chance of drawing Throne Rooms dead in a smaller hand.

[WanderingWinder]

Throning a lab is better than a level two city, by a card.
I can't say that I really see any concrete flaws in your analysis, but I just don't agree with when it's useful. But I'd have to write a counter-article to explain, and I don't have a great way to phrase it right now. Maybe soon, I'll do so.

[Jfrisch]

suppose we have a hand with 4 cards, and a lab. After playing the lab we have 6 cards and 1 action.
suppose we have a hand with 3 cards, a throne room, and a lab. After playing the throned lab, we have 7 cards 2 actions. that is, 1 more card, and 1 more action than the lab alone. So the throne room, does act, in essence, like a level 2 city, the rest of the effect stems from the lab itself. To phrase it another way, I give throne room credit for one of the plays and the additional action necessary to make it, but I don't give it credit for the other play.

[Jfrisch]

Also, do you really agree with the analysis of when to use it as a whole, or just some specific sub-point. It feels uncontentious to me that the best use of throne room is with engines and that the presence of throne room should encourage you to go for an engine when, originally, it would have been a viable, but possibly sub-optimal decision.

[eHalcyon]

suppose we have a hand with 4 cards, and a lab. After playing the lab we have 6 cards and 1 action.
suppose we have a hand with 3 cards, a throne room, and a lab. After playing the throned lab, we have 7 cards 2 actions. that is, 1 more card, and 1 more action than the lab alone. So the throne room, does act, in essence, like a level 2 city, the rest of the effect stems from the lab itself. To phrase it another way, I give throne room credit for one of the plays and the additional action necessary to make it, but I don't give it credit for the other play.

Or to put it simply...

TR + Lab == City2 + Lab

[Galzria]

I think the point was, a level 2 city leaves you with 6 cards, 2 actions, compared to a throne room + lab, which leaves you with 7 cards, and 2 actions. Unless you're just ignoring card draw and pointing out that a throne roomed cantrip is effectively a village - ie. Leaves you with 1 more action than you started with?

[eHalcyon]

I think the point was, a level 2 city leaves you with 6 cards, 2 actions, compared to a throne room + lab, which leaves you with 7 cards, and 2 actions. Unless you're just ignoring card draw and pointing out that a throne roomed cantrip is effectively a village - ie. Leaves you with 1 more action than you started with?

Throning a Lab draws you 4 cards and leaves you with 2 actions.
Playing a level 2 City and a Lab draws you 4 cards (2 each) and leaves you with 2 actions.

So Throning a Lab effectively makes the TR a level 2 City.

[O]

I think the point was, a level 2 city leaves you with 6 cards, 2 actions, compared to a throne room + lab, which leaves you with 7 cards, and 2 actions. Unless you're just ignoring card draw and pointing out that a throne roomed cantrip is effectively a village - ie. Leaves you with 1 more action than you started with?

Throning a Lab draws you 4 cards and leaves you with 2 actions.
Playing a level 2 City and a Lab draws you 4 cards (2 each) and leaves you with 2 actions.

So Throning a Lab effectively makes the TR a level 2 City.

More generally, throne rooming X effectively makes TR a X + 1 action.

[Galzria]

That is only true for actions that provide ONE additional action however, which is why I don't like the comparison that says it is a level 2 city. Because every case is unique, it must be evaluated on a case to case basis.

[jonts26]

No it's basically true for terminals as well. Throning a Militia is like playing a Militia which gives +1 action then another Militia. It really only breaks down when the card has a 'while in play' requirement.

[WanderingWinder]

Also, do you really agree with the analysis of when to use it as a whole, or just some specific sub-point. It feels uncontentious to me that the best use of throne room is with engines and that the presence of throne room should encourage you to go for an engine when, originally, it would have been a viable, but possibly sub-optimal decision.

I more or less agree with what you say here. However, that's not really what I get from the article. And I'd probably not say what you're saying here the way you're saying it, even if I don't think it's wrong per se.

[twadd7777]

This may have already been stated but I do not believe Throne Room works with Library.

[jomini]

I'd posit that Throne Room does conflict with Outpost because there's a greater chance of drawing Throne Rooms dead in a smaller hand.

Which is true IFF the smaller hand does not have a larger concentration of actions than would typically be the case.

When do you play outpost? Generally only when you have a hand that can do something better than just buy a silver. If you can't reliably hit a big payout (at least 5 coin) with 3 cards, outpost is just a crappy workshop with a small bit of cycling. Outpost is worth it when you have a higher than average density of actions, particularly non-terminal actions. While there are some exceptions (e.g. outpost/venture can sometimes be worth it), normally the only way to get something good with three cards is to have enough actions to make it worthwhile. If you have said actions, most of the time TR makes it better and the odds of drawing a dead throne are more than twice as low as drawing a useful throne.

For instance, outpost/menage is very good with some trashing. TR works well here allowing you to get it out of hand (avoiding duplicates), get +actions, and doubling up your payout cards (TR/haggler let's you get 2 more coins without having to find another action or gain a second haggler). Odds of drawing TR dead are pretty low, TR/Haggler lets you get a TR/menage so the  only real shots are TR/green or TR/TR/TR. The former doesn't matter as much as much if you aiming for a double province turn followed by a a province outpost turn. The latter is sufficiently rare that it isn't worth considering.

I just don't see all that many viable outpost decks where TR is bad.

twadd: it depends on how you are playing the library (or watchtower for that matter). If you are using it as dead draw, then yeah TR is a bust. If you are using it with say festival/chapel/lib then it works quite well at giving you 2 more coin for only 4 coin. TR really does work extremely well with just about any setup that favors heavy actions.  Library without actions, like say as a  militia counter or just simple BM/lib hates throne room, but all BM setups are that way. Even something simple like village/black market/library can benefit from having throne room around.

[Jfrisch]

If you are playing BM X then yes, throne room is absolutely horrific with library. However it's pretty awful with envoy/smithy/councilroom as well if you are going action light. if you are going action heavy then, sure, throne room does not combo with library itself, but it combos with the stuff you are using with library,. Also throne rooming a library means the throne room had no effect which is really, not that painful for a throne room.
In general to see if throne room anti-combos with a card, don't only consider what happens when you throne room that card, but whether throne room is useful in the types of deck's that use that card. Outpost, again, being the prime example, you very rarely want outpost unless you have a super-action rich deck.

[Robz888]

I would add that Throne Room conflicts with Treasure Map. Not actively, I guess, but 99% of the time that Throne Room is bought after Treasure Map is bought, it's for a bad reason.

[Jfrisch]

added.

[jotheonah]

But if your hand is Throne Room-Treasure Map-Treasure Map-Treasure Map, you can get 8 Gold on deck with only 3 maps!



(not a serious comment)

[HiveMindEmulator]

But if your hand is Throne Room-Treasure Map-Treasure Map-Treasure Map, you can get 8 Gold on deck with only 3 maps!



(not a serious comment)

I don't think you can. Treasure map says "If you do trash two Treasure Maps", but you can only trash the first treasure map once.