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Author Topic: Bribing for Prizes  (Read 9149 times)

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BubbleBoy

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Bribing for Prizes
« on: April 23, 2012, 07:06:06 pm »
+6

I like the idea of Prize cards, but I absolutely hate the race element of Tournament. I also feel like so much more could be done with Prizes, so I made some more of those, as well as Bribe. I have played a good number of games with these cards, and games seem to have worked perfectly fine with all 10 Prizes available. Anyway, here are the cards (sorry about the size):











And finally...



Unlike Tournament, this card actually costs you something to get a prize. Meanwhile, it can have some use while you're working towards getting the money you need (but is probably not worth $5 just for that).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 12:13:20 am by BubbleBoy »
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dondon151

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 08:54:12 pm »
0

Not being able to draw Bribe with 2 cards that make $6 absolutely kills your turn, though, because the trash is mandatory.
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O

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 09:07:23 pm »
0

Not being able to draw Bribe with 2 cards that make $6 absolutely kills your turn, though, because the trash is mandatory.

Trash up to two treasure cards

Card hovers somewhere between 3-4$ without the Prize effect.

I like all the cards except Necromancer. It's way too niche to be picked up frequently enough.
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Powerman

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 09:40:42 pm »
0

These are very nice cards!  Where'd you get the images?  :P

I really like Jewel... amazing card!
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Axxle

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 09:42:53 pm »
0

Not being able to draw Bribe with 2 cards that make $6 absolutely kills your turn, though, because the trash is mandatory.

Trash up to two treasure cards

Card hovers somewhere between 3-4$ without the Prize effect.

I like all the cards except Necromancer. It's way too niche to be picked up frequently enough.
It's worth 10 points in an average cursing game with no trashing.  That's pretty good!  Whether you can get it in a cursing game, no idea.
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Insomniac

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 10:22:11 pm »
0

Not being able to draw Bribe with 2 cards that make $6 absolutely kills your turn, though, because the trash is mandatory.

Trash up to two treasure cards

Card hovers somewhere between 3-4$ without the Prize effect.

I like all the cards except Necromancer. It's way too niche to be picked up frequently enough.
It's worth 10 points in an average cursing game with no trashing.  That's pretty good!  Whether you can get it in a cursing game, no idea.

You can BUY curses
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ycz6

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 10:39:03 pm »
0

Yeah, having a Necromancer in your deck in a non-cursing game effectively turns Curses into $0-cost Estates. You'd need +Buys to really get any benefit out of that, though, and I'd be hard pressed to find a situation where it'd be better than all the other Prizes...
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jotheonah

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 11:53:10 pm »
+3

Dude, gain it for the on-gain effect. Restarting the curse war after everyone's handed out all the curses AND trashed them all? Hilarious.

I really like these cards all around.
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blueblimp

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 12:01:59 am »
+1

I love Necromancer. It'd make absolutely no sense as a kingdom card, but as a prize it's really interesting.
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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2012, 06:41:38 am »
0

I really like all of the prizes. I'm not as big of a fan of Bribe giving you a curse when you get a prize. Is that penalty really necessary? Sure, it works well with Necromancer, but I don't see the other cards being powerful enough to warrant trashing either a Gold or two Silvers AND gaining a curse. You are reducing your buying power by $4 this turn by trashing the treasures, that seems like a big enough penalty, especially since Bribe costs $5 to begin with.
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2012, 08:07:23 am »
0

I really like all of the prizes. I'm not as big of a fan of Bribe giving you a curse when you get a prize. Is that penalty really necessary? Sure, it works well with Necromancer, but I don't see the other cards being powerful enough to warrant trashing either a Gold or two Silvers AND gaining a curse. You are reducing your buying power by $4 this turn by trashing the treasures, that seems like a big enough penalty, especially since Bribe costs $5 to begin with.
If anything has proven to need change through testing, it is this. That part of the ability is from an old version of the card which definitely needed it, but since things have been changed, it probably should be taken out. I'll look into it.

Oh, and most of the art comes from deviantart.com ... used without permission ... so, yeah ...
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Fragasnap

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 06:28:49 pm »
0

Why does Banquet make a player with no $3+ cards in his hand gain a Curse? That only increases the chance that the player won't have a $3+ card in his hand next time you play it! I'd just make a player who does not have any $3+ cards in his hand discard his hand and draw to 4 cards (to prevent most any benefit [yeah, Tunnel]).

Guard's reaction is worded poorly. Try "When another player trashes a Treasure you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player gains the trashed card."
Regardless, this is a bit aggressive towards an individual player. And unless you really get a pounce on this card (perhaps with Bribe), its Action and Reaction effects are largely useless because you won't have any Treasures to trash and other players won't be trashing any treasures.

Guild Crest should likely refer to a Guild Crest token, as opposed to a Coin token. Otherwise, it seems okay. It's just about useless in most 2 player games, and quite maybe too strong in 4+ player games, but that's alright.

I like Jewel.

Putting all the Curses back and making Curses good for you with Necromancer could be pretty fun, but you might want to make some other sort of catch for it. If you "restart the Curse war," it's not as big a deal for you since you could actually want the Curses, but it could mess everyone else up. If you grab it towards the end (as its on-gain would indicate), it ultimately reads: You can decrease opponents' scores but they can only increase yours. You probably want the player with Necromancer to stop gaining Curses during other players' turns somehow.

Bribe probably doesn't need to put a Curse into your deck since it requires you to trash 2 Silvers or a Gold (barring Bridge, Highway, and Princess) which is punishment enough. In addition, it doesn't stick the Prize on top of your deck like Tournament does.

Have you considered only including 5 random Prizes? It would make Tournament and Bribe much more dynamic, I think.
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dondon151

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 06:35:19 pm »
0

Guild Crest should likely refer to a Guild Crest token, as opposed to a Coin token. Otherwise, it seems okay. It's just about useless in most 2 player games, and quite maybe too strong in 4+ player games, but that's alright.

Just put the Guild Crest token on the Provinces every single time.
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 07:39:14 pm »
0

Why does Banquet make a player with no $3+ cards in his hand gain a Curse? That only increases the chance that the player won't have a $3+ card in his hand next time you play it! I'd just make a player who does not have any $3+ cards in his hand discard his hand and draw to 4 cards (to prevent most any benefit [yeah, Tunnel]).
Excellent idea, but I'm not sure if there is room for that on the card. I'll try fiddling with that a bit.

Quote
Guard's reaction is worded poorly. Try "When another player trashes a Treasure you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player gains the trashed card."
Regardless, this is a bit aggressive towards an individual player. And unless you really get a pounce on this card (perhaps with Bribe), its Action and Reaction effects are largely useless because you won't have any Treasures to trash and other players won't be trashing any treasures.
That wording is probably better. I am not sure how this card would interact with Thief though. As to the iffiness of the reaction ability, I am aware, but that is why I thought it would be a fun thing to have one a one-of-a-kind, hard-to-get Prize card. Also, while you might be able to help one player and hurt others with this card, there won't be much that that person can do back to you in return, so you're just an idiot for attempting to make another player king.

Quote
Guild Crest should likely refer to a Guild Crest token, as opposed to a Coin token. Otherwise, it seems okay. It's just about useless in most 2 player games, and quite maybe too strong in 4+ player games, but that's alright.
Well, there is no such thing as a Guild Crest token, which is the main reason I didn't use that in the ability. Although using Trade Route as precedence, it seems fine to me. Also, yes, it is stronger with more players, but 1) It is a minimally recyclable Duration card, and 2) it is intentionally worded to count your own purchases, which can often make up the bulk of the benefit (especially if you have Necromancer and some buys).

Quote
Putting all the Curses back and making Curses good for you with Necromancer could be pretty fun, but you might want to make some other sort of catch for it. If you "restart the Curse war," it's not as big a deal for you since you could actually want the Curses, but it could mess everyone else up. If you grab it towards the end (as its on-gain would indicate), it ultimately reads: You can decrease opponents' scores but they can only increase yours. You probably want the player with Necromancer to stop gaining Curses during other players' turns somehow.
I think of it like this, people generally hate Curses, and they hate Estates a little bit less, at least until the end of the game. Cards that give you Curses might be a little less annoying, but you're still getting Estates, which (at least during the phase of the game where you are probably gaining Prize cards) you still hate and would probably like to trash if you could. So Necromancer is pretty much entirely a future investment, which will almost always be gained at the expense of a significantly more useful Prize card, such as Jewel, which could be getting you points AND cash right now. However, gained later, it can have a significant impact on the game by restarting the Curse war, which could actually help you point-wise, but will significantly clog your deck (as will Necromancer), reducing your purchasing power. In testing, this has proved to be a very fun and strategic card, and in fact its gainer seldom wins. It might change a bit if I change the Curse part of Bribe, but I'll have to see.

Quote
Have you considered only including 5 random Prizes? It would make Tournament and Bribe much more dynamic, I think.
One element of Tournament which I wanted to dampen was the race element. In certain games, certain Prizes are noticeably more powerful, and so the first person to be blessed with a Province not only gets to thwart the other players' Tournament attempts, but also gets significantly higher quality Prizes. Yuck. One reason I like having more Prizes is so that pretty much everyone gets a chance to get a good one if they want. Also, as I said before, the usefulness of each prize varies from game to game, so that element makes Tournament and Bribe more dynamic. (Guard: What trashers are out? Necromancer: What Cursers or extra buys are being used? Guild Crest: How many players are there, and are they all buying the same things? Etc...)
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 11:25:43 pm »
0

How about this wording for Banquet:

Banquet
+2 Actions
Each other player trashes an Action or Treasure card costing $3 or more from his hand and draws a card (or reveals and discards a hand with no Action or Treasure cards costing $3 or more). You may gain one of the trashed cards into your hand. Each player draws up to 4 cards in hand.
(This is not in the Supply.)
($0* Action – Attack – Prize)

And this wording for Guard:

Guard
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. +2 Cards per Victory card trashed. +$2 per Treasure card trashed.
-----
When a player trashes his Treasure card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player gains the trashed card.
(This is not in the Supply.)
($0* Action – Reaction – Prize)

And this wording for Bribe:

Bribe
+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards. Trash up to 2 Treasure cards from your hand. If the total cost of the trashed cards is $6 or more, gain a Prize (from the Prize pile).
($5 Action)

EDIT: Also, to anyone who thinks having 10 prizes is too much, you might like a rule that I fiddled with in testing: all prizes are available, but once 5 have been gained, the rest are cut off.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 11:08:02 am by BubbleBoy »
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Morgrim7

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 11:34:50 pm »
0

Banquet
+2 Actions
Each other player trashes an Action or Treasure card costing $3 or more from his hand and draws a card (or reveals and discards a hand with no Action or Treasure cards costing $3 or more). You may gain one of the trashed cards into your hand. Each player draws up to 4 cards in hand.
(This is not in the Supply.)
($0* Action – Attack – Prize)
This card is way too overpowered. It's about twice as good as followers.
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2012, 07:46:19 am »
0

It (usually) doesn't draw, it doesn't change any scores, all people have to trash is Silvers if they want (which no one likes that much anyway and which are easy to get), and it doesn't reduce anyone's hand size unless they had a crappy hand anyway (which can actually be helpful).
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Davio

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2012, 08:05:19 am »
0

I wonder if one of the coming expansions will include new prizes, although Donald doesn't like to revisit old mechanics.

The way things are now, you're basically toast if you lose the first Tournament and your opponent snags away that Followers. It could be less aggrevating if there were more cards of that power level. On the other hand, having more prizes that are good may swing the game even more in favor of whoever wins the first Tournament, because the prize allows him to win more Tournaments.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2012, 08:54:13 am »
0

It (usually) doesn't draw, it doesn't change any scores, all people have to trash is Silvers if they want (which no one likes that much anyway and which are easy to get), and it doesn't reduce anyone's hand size unless they had a crappy hand anyway (which can actually be helpful).
Right. I am thinking about Tournament... How it would have been better because by the time you had matched a tournament with a province their decks would have better things than silvers… "Beyond Silver"………
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Tejayes

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 09:44:33 am »
+3

"Congratulations, young ruler! You have completed (or cheated on) the task admirably. As your reward, you shall receive...
  • ...a Trusty Steed!
  • ...some loyal Followers!
  • ...this lovely Diadem!
  • ...the hand of the Princess!
  • ...a neverending Bag of Gold!
  • ...a massive Banquet!
  • ...a trustworthy Guard!
  • ...your very own Guild Crest!
  • ...this gorgeous Jewel!
  • ...some creepy guy who revives corpses to do his unholy bidding... yeah...

My point is, Necromancer is a good name for the card in question. A good name for a prize, though? Compared to the canon Prizes and BubbleBoy's other four, probably not. I know it's a minor quibble, but it still bothers me enough to post and complain about.
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BubbleBoy

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 11:22:30 am »
0

Necromancer is a good name for the card in question. A good name for a prize, though? Compared to the canon Prizes and BubbleBoy's other four, probably not. I know it's a minor quibble, but it still bothers me enough to post and complain about.
I feel you here. I thought and thought and simply could not come up with a prize-worthy name that would work with this ability. Maybe "Necromancer's Staff," or just "Magic Staff," or "Charm," or "Blessing," or something like that?
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jotheonah

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 12:39:00 pm »
+1

Maybe like "Dark Power." Like, you can choose those rewards or choose POWER OVER THE DEAD.
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dondon151

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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 02:10:29 pm »
+3

Maybe "Necromancer's Staff," or just "Magic Staff,"

Spectre's Sceptre  :D
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Re: Bribing for Prizes
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2012, 04:46:44 pm »
0

love these cards, would like to have legit copies of them to play test (not a big fan of using just blanks, or crappy stickers)
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