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Author Topic: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5  (Read 16584 times)

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Kirian

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Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« on: April 20, 2012, 01:33:19 am »
0

We play with Prosperity this week!  Exactly 6 Prosperity cards.  Post your results here.

Skeletal thread for now, matchups are where they always have been, at http://isodom.challonge.com/
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Fabian

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 04:23:44 am »
+1

Note: This was on Monday immediately after our match.

Fabian beats Lekkit 5-2, some pretty intense games and a very fun match overall.

Game 1 Fabian 37 - 43 Lekkit
Pre-match, we discuss whether or not to use identical starting hands or not. I'm used to it in tournament matches, but we decide to not use it since we both really prefer random, with the added bonus that I can complain and whine when I get screwed by Mountebank. We start game 1, and Lekkit opens Mountebank/ while I open Horse Traders/Silver. FML. This whole game is actually hilarious, since I'm pretty sure both our draws are in the bottom 5-10 percentile in terms of "luck", or so it felt anyway. Lekkit does connect KC/Mountebank at a critical point in the midgame, and that probably is pretty decisive. In the end, I backdoor into a good amount of Duchies and Dukes, and when I get $10 and 2 buys I'm able to buy the two remaining Duchies and get a 3 point lead with only one Worker's Village left to end the game. I figure he's reasonably unlikely to get to $8 and Province on his next turn, and all I need is $4 on my next turn to win. As it turns out, he does get to $8, and I don't get to $4 anyway. Overall this game was kind of a mess for both us, but I guess that happens when you draw kinda terribly and Mountebank makes your decks even more terrible.

Game 2 Fabian 32 - 24 Lekkit
Lekkit goes for straight BM (with Venture) on this pretty boring board, but I see some potential in a King's Court deck thanks to decent trashing (Loan and Trading Post) and Saboteur. I plan on buying Highways and King's Courts, eventually buying a Saboteur and have a deck which can consistently fire off KC's Saboteurs with active Highways (which will mean only the most expensive cards in Lekkit's deck will be eligible for trashing, ignoring Silver is sweet). This goes pretty much exactly according to plan, and I even get to finish by Trading Post a Colony and King's Court into a Silver to afford the last Province, for extra style points.

Game 3 Fabian 47 - 24 Lekkit
I would say this is the one game which was very one-sided, with Lekkit's strategy never really coming together. I get 2 Vaults, 2 Hoards and start gaining Golds, which turns out to be very good, especially so since I draw very well this game, and I buy my 7th Province on turn 17. Meanwhile, Lekkit's deck hasn't done much, it seemed he went for some City rush but realized it would be way too slow, the end result being three essentially wasted $5 buys and no economy to speak of. I do like his Contraband opening here though, since I can't block both Hoard and Gold, and in the end game he can discard Contraband for Vault for some marginal use, at least (this is assuming he goes for a Vault/BM type deck though, which he didn't).

Game 4 Fabian 25 - Lekkit 22
Another pretty messy game where we open Quarry/Masquerade, looking to buy Border Villages/Mountebanks and, later on, Treasuries. I get 2 Masquerades which I think I like here, and eventually have a big enough lead (barely) where I feel comfortable Forging Copper into the last Curse, buy double Treasury and only needing $5 for the last Treasury (with three Treasuries on top) on my next turn to 3-pile. It turns out Lekkit can only afford Estate instead of Duchy on his turn, so I win by 3 points instead of 1.

Game 5 Fabian 66 - 69 Lekkit
Lekkit opens Ghost Ship/nothing and goes BM with 2 Ghost Ship and 2 Royal Seal. I open Monument/Loan and buy lots of Ventures and regular money. I feel lost for most of the game, but it gets very close in the end, when my deck arguably is more consistent than his. I need both remaining Colonies to win, and when I buy the penultimate and he's unable to buy the last one to win, I see a glimmer of hope for a few turns, but the closest I get is $10 on my final turn.

Game 6 Fabian 52 - 33 Lekkit
I open Warehouse/Loan with the idea of getting more Warehouses and Tunnel(s), buying a Goons, and getting lots of Golds while greening early. 6 Provinces, 3 Tunnels, a Duchy in 15 turns, nice draws! Oh, and 4 bonus VP chips from Goons. Lekkit opens Silver/Warehouse and goes for a slower version of the deck featuring two Vault (helping my Tunnels further), and doesn't stand much chance against my quicker deck and great draws.

Game 7 Fabian 41 - 33 Lekkit
Masquerade/King's Court/Grand Market/etcetc game which gets really complicated. Both our decks are really good, but the usual megaturn mirror match end game considerations are in place, and knowing how to edge towards ending the game without giving the opponent a chance to win is easier said than done. Lekkit has an Expand (later 2) in his deck, which is also very scary, and expands into 2 Province and buys 4 Duchy on turn 15, starting the victory card buying. This perhaps gives his deck a few too many green cards though, as my KC'd Rabble keeps him from drawing anything too great on his next turn, and when I see he has Copper and Silver in hand from two Masquerades (and 2 Province on top), I feel comfortable setting up an easy win for my next turn, buying the remaining 2 Grand Markets and 2 Province. Two of his remaining three cards in hand are KC and Grand Market, but he's unable to draw into enough stuff to really get going, and I'm able to close it out on my next turn with lots of green cards.

As usual, brief summaries and game logs aren't enough to do cool games justice, and I felt like we had quite a few very cool games. Overall I was very happy with my play and felt like my strategies were mostly sound, and a few tactical decisions I made were really cool/critical too, I thought. Can't ask for more, great match Lekkit! Thanks and good luck in the final matches :)
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rspeer

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 04:44:08 am »
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I'm going to point this out for the record. Nicki Menagerie's forum username is "Duck Sauce".

Was everyone looking all the way back to the sign-up thread and not saying anything for future people who would need to find out?
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Lekkit

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 05:18:09 am »
+1

Yeah, our games were really good, and if you don't play top notch (or luck out) agains someone like Fabian you will loose. I can tell you from experience. ;)
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zxcvbn2

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 04:15:34 pm »
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For those too lazy to click the link:
Atlantic Group:
Young Nick (26) vs. fit1one (12)
Jonts26 (42) vs. andwilk (31)
DG (28) vs. elahrairah13 (15)
Kirian (22) vs. Greystripe77 (6)

Eastern America Group:
Wandering Winder (27) vs. Robz888 (34)
Masticore (28) vs. blueblimp (20)
Mis Qsenoch (32) vs. zxcvbn2 (15)
angrybirds (18) vs. Voltaire (8)

Central Europe Group:
Fabian (44) vs. Lekkit (34)
StickaRicka (27) vs. Tonks77 (27)
ugasoft (29) vs. AngBoy (17)
ArjanB (22) vs. JanErik (24)

Eurasia Group:
Geronimoo (21) vs. Dubdubdubdub (dropped)
Mangsky (16) vs. luliin (12)
Nucleus (17) vs. MrEevee (36)
Rabid (34) vs. lespeutere (24)
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ugasoft

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 08:09:05 am »
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I don't know how to contact "angboy", I've searched for him on the forum, there's no user with this name...
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Geronimoo

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 08:16:50 am »
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So my next opponent DubDubDubDub dropped. What happens now?
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Tonks77

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 08:18:42 am »
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I don't know how to contact "angboy", I've searched for him on the forum, there's no user with this name...
Angboy is the son of mangsky. So just contact mangsky.
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ugasoft

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2012, 08:22:50 am »
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I don't know how to contact "angboy", I've searched for him on the forum, there's no user with this name...
Angboy is the son of mangsky. So just contact mangsky.

Great!

thank you! ^_^
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Eevee

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 02:54:36 pm »
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Havent been able to reach nucleus yet, any suggestions?
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Tonks77

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« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 05:34:49 am by Tonks77 »
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Eevee

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 04:28:50 am »
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Havent been able to reach nucleus yet, any suggestions?

Still nothing, whattodo?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 04:44:59 am »
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So, do I get 14 points this round because DubDub dropped?
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mangsky

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 04:59:54 am »
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Angboy and myself (Mangsky) are just waiting for the matches to be scheduled so please feel free to PM me your schedules
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Kirian

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 09:04:19 am »
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So, do I get 14 points this round because DubDub dropped?

Dubdubdubdub was supposed to have been replaced, but I'm uncertain by whom.

Also, if he ends up being scratched you get 0, but so does everyone else who may have played him.
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DG

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2012, 07:28:30 pm »
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Adjourned match from me and Elahrairah13 standing at 3:1. Transatlantic times are making it difficult to finish in one session.

DG 78 : 56 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-103528-7a90a181.html
DG 60 : 24 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-105253-8c8c3249.html
DG 18 : 19 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-105922-a0d9f3ba.html
DG 47 : 40 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-111213-56f81559.html

First game I managed to trash down to a 6 card bishop deck and that squeezed out a lead.
Second game had so many power cards that you had to make a messy deck and hope they powered up together. They did for me.
Third game we played with a similar jester/bridge/gardens strategy that swung both ways on the draws.
Fourth game I was also ready to write off but my deck came through very strongly on the final turns with king's court, torturer, and forge.
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angrybirds

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2012, 08:08:36 pm »
+1

angrybirds 5 wins (11 pts) vs Voltaire 1 in (3 pts) and 1 tie

angrybirds 59 - Voltaire 51 my opponent goes a little heavier into Bishops while I still Bishop but make Golds and Grand Markets a priority
angrybirds 33 - Voltaire 18 I open Spice Merchant/FV to his Moneylender/FV with King's Court, Quarry, Grand Market, Salvager and Monument being the key cards. I get 2 Quarries and get early GM and KC and then use Salvager to speed up the game.
angrybirds 67 - Voltaire 57 First Colony game. An early Envoy buy helped me get to Gold and Platinum faster and then to GM faster. Trade Routes at the end were useful.
angrybirds 33 - Voltaire 40 I think I played the early part of this set very well. I got early Tournaments with Ironworks and was able to get more Golds, Provinces and then Followers, Trusty Steed and Princess and led about 30-5. But my mid-game I think I fell asleep and let him make a great comeback... I ended up buying out both Tournament and Cities for activated Cities allowing him to make great use of that and then buy Diadem--which I forgot all about since I almost never buy it. Really good comeback by Voltaire.
angrybirds 60 - Voltaire 48 This game showed how effective Royal Seal can be. I bought two early which lead to a hopping 7 Platinums, most bought back to back of each other with Royal Seal putting back on top to buy one the next turn.
angrybirds 41 - Voltaire 41 Finally a Goons game. But it was a weird one. Hamlet was the only village type card and Voltaire had 7 and 7 Goons. I felt like turn 4 decided the game for me. Voltaire had $6 for his first Goons, I had $5 and struggled to get to $6 early. Voltaire bought coppers a little too early for me and I think allowed me to sneak back into it. I was down pretty bad.
angrybirds 71 - Voltaire 52 Another Goons game, this time with no village type card. My 2 Trader buys reacting to his Mountebank buy hurts me as I can't get above $4 until turn 9 but Voltaire still goes heavy with Goons though and again buys coppers putting me down early. I decide to go for GM/Peddlers instead and am able to pull it out late.

Thanks to Voltaire for the games.
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andwilk

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2012, 09:48:23 pm »
+1

andwilk defeats jonts26 5-2 (10 points - 4 points)

I definately would have to say that this was a very swingy series with the cards involved and also Goons-dominated.  It could have easily have gone 5-2 the other way (and I'll admit that's what I was expecting coming in to this match!)  Black Market rears its ugly head and basically decides a couple of the games.

Game 1: andwilk 37-27 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-170354-11508ebe.html)
Basically a big money game where we both open Remake/Silver.  This was easily the least interesting game of the set.  On turn 3, I draw S/C/C/E/E and this prompts me to add a second Remake fearing that my original one would fall to turn 5 and I didn't want to fall behind.  As it turns out, both of our Remakes fall to turn 5.  The extra Remake action for a few turns combined with some non-ideal draws for him lead me to victory.

Game 2: andwilk 47-28 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-171927-7ac97aa2.html)
Worker's Village/Goons/Watchtower is the obvious strategy here and we both pursue it.  Stables is there for draw support and Menagerie for additional defense against Goons.  The only difference here is that I am able to draw more Goons together more often than him.

Game 3: andwilk 43-29 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-172714-3686d63a.html)
KC/Montebank with Hunting Party support and we both open Silver/Silver.  He splits turns 3 and 4 $7/$2 and gets a KC on turn 3.  I add more Hunting Parties faster than he does but I lose the curse war 6-4.  I pile on the Provinces early and am able to keep enough steam going to outlast him.

Game 4: andwilk 19-23 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-173649-9d2e05c6.html)
Goons and Cities involved in this match.  He beats me in both piles.  I pull a stupid move on my last turn buying out the last Throne Room (2nd empty pile) powering up his Cities and allowing him to close out the game.

Game 5: andwilk 36-21 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-174438-186ec1a2.html)
This is the game I am most proud of in this set.  I open Develop/Silver to his Silver/Silver.  My plan was to Develop my Estates into Villages and use them to support Margraves and eventually into Peddlers with the extra buys.  This works better than I thought it would and I end up with all of the Peddlers by the end.  This is really the only game where our strategies diverged from the start.  I went for Village/Margrave/Peddler and he went with Margrave/Hoard (Big Money).

Game 6: andwilk 43-50 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-180401-33e267b8.html)
I try an anti-Goons strategy by Embargoing them early on.  I pull an Ambassador from the Black Market which helps but in the end his more Goons-centric deck is able to beat me.  By the time I decided to join in on Goons, it was too late.

Game 7: andwilk 89-2 jonts26 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/25/game-20120425-181714-a6f34be0.html)
More Goons and Cities.  Black Market decided this one as well when I pulled an early Apprentice and Moneylender.  This allowed me to trim my deck and also buy additional Coppers with Goons buys without cluttering my deck too much. 
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2012, 09:54:50 pm »
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andwilk defeats jonts26 5-2 (10 points - 4 points)
Gasp!
Now to read reports...

jonts26

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2012, 10:00:19 pm »
+1

This was a pretty dissapointing match. Overall, andwilk played very well. I think the only game I was clearly outplayed was game 5, and the only game I clearly outplayed him was game 6. Other than that, I'm pretty sure lady luck decided the rest of the series. Videos will go up when I get a chance but it's going to be a busy few days.

Game 1: Wharf/Hoard/Big Money was always the game plan. I'm not sure if the remake is the right opening, but missing the shuffle and never drawing it at good times made it a huge hindrance. My wharves also collided and missed shuffles a ton. Absolutely terrible luck.

Game 2: Goons strategy is obvious. I can't think of a single difference in our game plans so I'm gonna chalk this one up to luck as well.

Game 3: KC/Mountebank/HP. Obvious strat is MB with HP and KC support. I draw $7 on turn 3. I buy KC. Don't know if that's right but I feel this game is decided by who get more KC MB plays. I was wrong. I end up not getting as many hunting parties and not drawing my cards nearly as well as he does. I try for an earlyish trade route to try to keep my coppers/curses under control. But it's not nearly enough.

Game 4: Goons and Cities. I get the jump on both. He mistakenly buys last throne room. Other than that he might have squeaked out a victory, but I had the better luck this game.

Game 5: I go margrave/BM. He goes margrave/village with peddler/develop support. I figured that would be too slow to set up the engine but 6 provinces in 15 turns is fast and he likely did the right thing. That coupled with some pretty miserable luck on my side made this one not close.

Game 6: Goons again with good engine potential. He embargoes them but I don't really care. Still dominant. He does pull an ambassador from the BM which really slowed me down/sped him up, but my plan was just better and let me win.

Game 7: Ugh. Super miserable game. I made a couple dubious decisions and likely flubbed a touch, but this is mostly what gets pulled from the black market. My early economy never gets going either and he just snowballs me. Not pretty.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2012, 11:02:14 pm »
0

Thanks to angrybirds for the games. I've been clearly outclasses this tournament but it's been very fun. After losing a tournament game where I got Followers first to WW earlier today, it was nice to be on the winning end of that same scenario.  ;D
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Robz888

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2012, 01:33:09 pm »
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WanderingWinder defeats Robz888, 5 games to 2 (WW: 10 pts; Robz: 4 pts). I had been fearing this match-up, because I am pretty terrible at Prosperity, and my record against WW is much worse than against anyone else. Things went pretty much as badly as they possibly could, and I feel lucky to walk away with even 2 wins. Oh, and Game 2 is the one to look at. It's going to be one of the most famous (infamous?) games of Dominion, seriously, ever.

WanderingWinder 2 - 0 Robz888 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-090430-86f15a93.html
Colony game with Kings Court and Mountebank, and not much else: Ironworks, Worker's Village, Nomad Camp, Tunnel. He gets more KCs and Mountebanks, wins the Curse war, and I don't even notice piles run out, thanks to Ironworks. I don't think I could have won, though.

Robz888 69 - 76 WanderingWinder http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-091106-1eccf7d8.html
Hoo boy. This is something. Province game, Kings Court, Wharf, Monument, Workers Village. I draw better early on, getting lots of KCs and Wharves, connecting them, and my deck is singing. I buy 7 Provinces, KC some Monuments, and I have a 50 or 60 point lead on Turn 13. That's game, right?

.........

You know what, I don't even want to spoil it for you. Go read the log or watch the video.

Robz888 42 - 62 WanderingWinder http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-092023-ed771b5e.html
Hey look, another loss. Colony game where he does more interesting things with Forge, Develop, Alchemist. I get the dreaded $2P (missing the re-shuffle no less) and fall behind. I have a tight deck that can buy Colony every turn, but he's too far ahead. That $2P hand hurt, but honestly, I probably had a worse strategy anyway. I bought 2 Cities, and they did hit Level 2, but I was overdrawing my deck anyway, with no extra buy.

Robz888 83 - 40 WanderingWinder http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-093204-4fa78a91.html
The only game I get to boast about it. Colony game with Peddler, Kings Court, Upgrade, Young Witch with a good Bane, Oasis. We both YW/Oasis, picking up Peddlers, more Oases, and Upgrades. Our strategies diverge, as he makes an effort to Upgrade his Peddlers into Platinum. I go for KCs and connect them to Peddlers, and that ends up being much stronger. He's behind and picks up a bunch of Young Witches, but I have 5 Oases. We actually run out the Provinces. I Double Upgrade 2 KCs into the last 2 Provinces, which was crazy lucky, but I would have won anyway.

WanderingWinder 80 - 48 Robz888 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-094015-7bb526e8.html
Colony and Mountebank and Watchtower and Farming Village and Merchant Ship. If you look at the logs, you'll see I'm succumbing to frustration. I don't make any intelligent purchases, he has a nice deck, and that's that.

34 Robz888 - 46 Wandering Winder http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-094811-366777f9.html
Just a regular Minion affair in a Province game. Navigator/Loan is the obvious opening. If you look at our decks, you will see they are very similar, so I think I just drew much worse here.

Robz888 44 - 38 WanderingWinder http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-095341-5d51845d.html
A clear Envoy/Big Money game were good draws and first player advantage make it impossible for him (though he has certainly done the impossible, check out Game 2!). So, not a very strategic win for me, but I'll take what I can get.

Thanks for the games, WW. I'm sure he will post his recaps, and the videos. Really, you want to watch the Game 2 video.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2012, 02:11:00 pm »
0

Link to playlist with the videos:
My thoughts on the games:
Game 1: I get FOUR mountebanks very early, just want to pound him into submission. Worker's village and ironworks and to grab lots of WVs to play everything, and peddlers. And I spike some early KC. I end it quickly by buying the last two worker's villages, but I was all over the game like sliced bread (not that I outplayed him really - just I was way up by then), so I could have had a big lead instead.

Game 2: Watch the video.

Game 3: We have very similar strategies here, I think. But he gets very unlucky on the early alchemists, and I'm able to spike a forge on turn 8. So we end up splitting the alchemists and he gets a couple of what are very clearly and quickly level 2 cities. Well a couple things. I definitely get a lot luckier than him, but I don't get super super super lucky myself. Probably I'd put my luck here in as above average. Because my steward is sitting on the sidelines most all game. But then check out my turn 11. I draw everything, forge a bunch of coppers, an estate, my steward and my potion into a platinum, and buy a develop. Now, I like the develop, which I use to turn my not-so-useful-anymore forge into a province and hoard, and though I only really use it after this to trash the last couple coppers, I have many options with it should I have needed them. But there were lots of ways to win there, at that point. I do like the hoard too, because it helps give me something back as I go into my very fast greening. But most of all I like the trashing of the potion there. It's just not that useful anymore, in my super-trim deck, and I needed its $4 cost to get that platinum.

Game 4: I'm not actually thrilled about oasis, but if it moats for you... I think the big thing here is that he's able to get to KC a lot faster. Which then springboards everything. Now, I wanted more upgrades to clean everything off, and possibly eventually upgrade upgrade->gold, gold->KC, KC>province if necessary, peddler->platinum. But I don't get to KC fast enough, and he hits an early KC+upgrade to do the same thing, but faster, and with more other good cards! I eventually get my stuff up and running, but I'm WAY behind, so I look to try to KC some young witches, because I know I'm pretty much lost, and my only chance at a hope at a chance at a thought at a hope is to hit him with a bunch of curses. To that end, my first provinces should have probably been a KC. But I'm dead lost anyway. The only thing I can really think here is that I should have taken gold>upgrade on $6 probably, to help make sure I get that KC. Though I think with his first turn, good strategy, and reasonable draws, I'm probably losing anyway.

Game 6: Minion/loan, with navigator and worker's village thrown in. I can point to some differences, though without looking at all his hands, I'm not sure if I'd necessarily played it differently. Except in a couple places. Also, I definitely misplay the navigator/loan/minion interaction a bit, particularly early on. So used to the tertiary navigator effect (re-ordering) not mattering at all. And then I think it's important and precise play for me to attack him at least once a turn pretty often. And I like gold over harvest. But uh, mostly luck yes.

Game 7: I actually think this is one of the more interesting boards in the match, if the least interesting game. Envoy, rabble, stash, bank, mint, hoard. So envoy isn't actually that great with hoard - the high variance hoard gets you is not good for envoy. So I was looking at either trying for BM/Rabble with hoards, or BM envoy with stashes (stash and envoy work VERY well together). And I decide on the latter. But my turn 3 hand is 5 coppers, and I have a long think on whether to buy stash and stick with the plan, or to abandon it and go for mint. I can't pass up the mint, and though it gets me a deck that's way stronger eventually... that's way eventually, and as p2, I'm too far behind. Maybe I should have stuck with stash. I don't know, but I do want to find out.

Edit: Added links

philosophyguy

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2012, 02:36:46 pm »
+3

Wow. Game 2. Just…wow.
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Robz888

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 03:30:03 pm »
0

Wow. Game 2. Just…wow.

Imagine the horror of watching your 7 Province lead slip away, 3 Kinged Monuments at a time...
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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2012, 04:27:56 pm »
0

@WW: I whipped up a bot for your game 7. The simulator likes Hoard with Envoy (as I expected it would) despite the so called variance it creates. And adding Mint was surprisingly good despite the tempo loss. On average you're going to make up for it in the end game with a much stronger deck.

This Envoy-Hoard bot that buys Mint if it hits 5 Copper early beats the same bot without Mint 48-44 opening $4/$3 (far from optimized) :
Code: [Select]
<player name="Hoard + Envoy + Mint"
 author="WanderingWinder"
 description="The optimized Hoard strategy that buys no actions.">
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="isActionPhase"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Mint">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Mint"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Copper"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countTurns"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="7.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Envoy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Envoy"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 04:41:08 pm »
0

@WW: I whipped up a bot for your game 7. The simulator likes Hoard with Envoy (as I expected it would) despite the so called variance it creates. And adding Mint was surprisingly good despite the tempo loss. On average you're going to make up for it in the end game with a much stronger deck.

This Envoy-Hoard bot that buys Mint if it hits 5 Copper early beats the same bot without Mint 48-44 opening $4/$3 (far from optimized) :
Code: [Select]
<player name="Hoard + Envoy + Mint"
 author="WanderingWinder"
 description="The optimized Hoard strategy that buys no actions.">
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="isActionPhase"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Mint">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Mint"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Copper"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countTurns"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="7.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Envoy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Envoy"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>
I think you misunderstand my claim. I'm not saying that envoy isn't helped by hoard. I'm saying it isn't helped by hoard as much as a lot of other strategies are. Specifically here, Rabble. I whipped up this Rabble with Hoard bot, basically no tuning:
Code: [Select]
<player name="RabbleHoard"
 author="WanderingWinder"
 description="The optimized Rabble strategy that buys no other actions.">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="Attacking"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="getTotalMoney"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="16.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="6.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Hoard"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Rabble">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Rabble"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="getTotalMoney"/>
         <extra_operation type="divideBy" attribute="10.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>

philosophyguy

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 08:28:12 pm »
0

@Geronimoo: can you explain what this part of your simulator is doing?
Code: [Select]
  <buy name="Hoard">
      <condition>
         <left type="isActionPhase"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
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Rabid

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 09:04:42 pm »
0

I think it has to do with what to gain with Mint (in the action phase).
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DG

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2012, 09:24:29 pm »
0

That portion of the script gains hoards with the mint and buys gold. I suspect this isn't meaningful in itself but improves the script since it creates a reasonable balance between hoards and gold in the deck. A better approximation might be to buy/gain hoards instead of gold when there are at least 5 provinces in the supply.

I can't simulate any noticeable advantage in taking a mint or not taking the mint. The best alternative seems to be envoy/silver with rabble after turn four.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:54:51 pm by DG »
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Young Nick

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2012, 12:15:45 am »
0

Young Nick takes 4 and fit1one takes 3. They earn 8 and 6 points respectively. Logs included below:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-131034-728a301c.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-135806-f3bfe98e.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-134718-e0e70cc7.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-134041-22796091.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-133203-2c79f4a8.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-131816-6afb2580.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/26/game-20120426-140624-64a5c29d.html

Comments hopefully to come later. As always, I feel like my losses were when we went for similar strategies and couldn't get the shuffle luck. I never really felt that one of his strategies caught me off-guard or anything like that.

I was surprised by how dull this set of seven felt like. Prosperity cards are to be powerful, but the games just didn't feel that way. Mountebank and King's Court are definitely soul-numbing.
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ArjanB

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2012, 05:59:33 am »
0

I Haven't heard from my opponent JanErik...
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Kirian

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2012, 09:54:20 am »
0

I Haven't heard from my opponent JanErik...

Hrm.  I know he's active on isotropic, I played three games against him last night.  Try another PM maybe?
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Kirian

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2012, 11:06:27 pm »
0

Kirian 5-2 Graystripe77

Kirian 36-30 Graystripe77 Masquerade trumps Sea Hag
Kirian 35-20 Graystripe77 KC-City-Peddler plus luck
Kirian 20-32 Graystripe77 Inn-Wharf engine decimates Witch
Kirian 53-31 Graystripe77 Silk Roads are slightly too slow when uncontested
Kirian 77-57 Graystripe77 BM-Witch-Bishop beats Philosopher's Stone
Kirian 40-58 Graystripe77 Crossroads/Nobles beats Hamlet/Watchtower
Kirian 63-51 Graystripe77 Hamlet/Rabble beats Hamlet/CH

Game 1:  Not much to say, Masquerade beats cursers, and Forge is awesome with drawing power.
Game 2:  Oddly, this was the only real mirror match, and I feel it was mainly decided by luck--my luck grabbing KC-KC-City-City-Peddler on one turn, essentially.
Game 3:  Speaking of cursers, Witch just doesn't do enough damage to Gray's Wharf/Inn engine.  A few added Monuments give him the victory push.
Game 4:  I think if I'd tried to contest Silk Roads, I would have lost here.  Instead, I patiently went BM, stopping for just one SR (which was better that the alternative, a Duchy).
Game 5:  I just don't think Philosopher's Stone had the power to overcome here, and my early (and more often) Curses slowed him down too much.
Game 6:  One engine is just plain faster than the other, and it wasn't mine.
Game 7:  Gray makes CH competitive here, impressively, but drawing 10 Coppers form the discard doesn't have the buying power (and cycling power) of drawing 10 bigger cards from the deck.

I wanted to note, on the subject of luck and probability:  In seven games with 6 Prosperity cards, we never saw GM or Goons, and only had KC twice.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 04:11:34 pm by Kirian »
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DG

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2012, 09:49:34 am »
0

Elahrairah13 and I finished our series last night resulting in a 6:1 scoreline.

DG 61 : 59 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/30/game-20120430-104027-3c102231.html
DG 77 : 37 Elahrairah13 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/30/game-20120430-105720-2c8c2640.html
DG 50 : 36 Elahraihah13  http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/30/game-20120430-111236-1393546e.html

Fifth game (first of these three) had a strange mix of treasures and actions that suggested going heavily one way or the other. I went with treasures earlier and this seemed to work.

Sixth game was another difficult set for king's court but a just a couple of good king's court + envoy turns was enough for me.
Seventh game had plenty of options and I managed to set up a vault and platinum for quick colonies and forging out the supply to finish, just as my opponent could get cities rolling.

Thanks again for the series!
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Geronimoo

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 05:40:44 pm »
0

loes u beats Geronimoo 4-3

Mountebank dominated most games, but loes played well.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-121733-de336562.html
loes 40 - Geronimoo 37
Key cards: Council Room, Hoard
loes opens Fishing Village/Fishing Village which I don't like because the odds of getting to the all important $5 are low before the second reshuffle, so I open FV/Silver. Of course she gets $5 and I don't before the second reshuffle... I still like my chances because I have 2 Warehouses to her 1 and loes buys a Watchtower which is pretty bad when the opponent plays Council Room. Unfortunately the early game bad luck does me in.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-122743-f8b831de.html
Geronimoo 36 - loes 14
Key cards: Mountebank, Counting House
I get a lucky $5/$2 opening on a Mountebank board where loes opens Quarry/Silver. Mid game I buy Minions and Golds randomly because I can't decide between them (Minion is probably still slightly better), then I finally make a good decision and buy 2 Counting Houses which give me plenty money. Loes didn't buy the Mountebank counter.... this game...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-124603-17d410e5.html
Geronimoo 60 - loes 59
Key cards: Mountebank, Counting House...yes and Caravan
We both open Horse Traders/Silver on a Mountebank board and then concentrate on Caravans after the Mountebanks. I get a lot more Curses in then her and I only buy 1 Counting House. She gets 2 of them and buys extra Coppers to feed to it. I get extremely lucky this game as I'm able to 3-pile the game one turn before she buys the last Colony with her Counting House. I probably didn't green agressively enough this game because I was on the lookout to 3-pile the game while I was in the lead, which caused me to lose that lead. Tricky!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-125914-24ff8d54.html
loes 15 - Geronimoo 3
Key cards: Mountebank (whee), Young Witch, KC, Golem ... a whole bunch of cards...
We both open YW/Chancellor (bane). I get a second YW because I like the cycling and she only gets one bane. Then I decide I want Pawns to buy Peddlers so I have plenty of stuff to King's Court. Loes on the other hand gets a Potion, some real money and later King's Courts and Golems and I realize I'm dead unless she gets very unlucky. I hope I'll be able to 3-pile her before she connects a KC with a Golem, but no such luck and she only needs the one mega-turn to finish me off. I played this horribly.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-131027-19162d27.html
loes 9 - Geronimoo 8
Key cards: Mountebank... (of course), University, Rabble
I open Potion/Loan while loes goes for Silver/Potion. I like my opening a little better and I think it allows me to build up my engine a little faster. If you look at the end decks you can see my engine is much leaner. Unfortunately I get a very unlucky reshuffle and a single dead turn is enough for loes to end it on piles. I might have misplayed this because I could have had more end game control by not buying out all those piles, but I was sure I had this in the bag... This one really hurt.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-133543-9ae82a19.html
Geronimoo 84 - loes 19
Key cards: Mountebank (yes please), Alchemist, Margrave, Black Market
We both open Black Market/Potion because I see some nice stuff in the Black Market. I get a nice advantage in Alchemists and turn 10 I find a Chapel in the BM which I buy over another Alchemist. I wasn't sure at the time, but in the end it worked out fine because I got my deck cleaned up and the unstoppable Alchemy stack does the rest. A little tactical good practice: I always put back random actions first on the deck with Schemes, then Alchemists so loes' Margraves wouldn't discard my Alchemies.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-134245-6a745647.html
loes 53 - Geronimoo 38
Key cards: no Mountebank this time, but IGG and Bank
We both open Monument/Silver and get a few IGG's, then Banks (nice!). We have pretty much identical strategies, but I guess first turn advantage and Banks lining up a little better with IGG's make this an easy win for loes.

loes played these messy games well and I wasn't really on top of my game tonight.
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Dsell

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Re: Mustard's Bracket, Week 5
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2012, 01:53:13 am »
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AHoppy and I will be playing this match (my last week remaining) sometime in the next week, after he finishes finals.
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