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Author Topic: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?  (Read 33206 times)

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rod-

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 12:48:19 pm »
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It relies a lot more on luck. In some regards, that could be a positive, because I know some people who don't like playing certain games because they just aren't as good with the strategy as someone else. With this game, I bet that a person could win just by buying random dice. I'm also willing to bet that the biggest part of this game is to manage your resources so that you make your own luck, so that inexperienced player could win, but it wouldn't be that often.
I'm still looking into Quarriors, but I'll probably end up buying it.
Managing your resources and making your own luck is not a huge part of quarriors, unfortunately - the creature options are all very very similar, the "variation" between the various creatures of the same type range from "unplayable" to "must-buy" with very little in-between.  Rolling money when you need money and creatures when you need creatures (and knowing which board is which) is the biggest factor.  I've played games where i've lost 15-2 and won 15-0 on the same board vs the same opponent (although more often than not games score 15-7)
My friend who refuses to play dominion against me loves it though, presumably for that same reason.
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Amaranth

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 01:22:13 pm »
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A friend of mine just picked up Rune Age and we played it today... it's very different from Dominion,. The cards you select from to build your army (aside from a very small pool of cards) are based on which one of the four races you choose. The variety comes from four different scenarios you choose from, whereupon the goal changes (buying some really expensive thing or defeating a dragon), and there are event cards that affect each turn (usually bad things).
Rune Age is pretty tough all right. It wasn't until my fourth solo game that I managed to beat the intro scenario with Elves, which are, along with Uthuk, one of the two straightforwardly efficient factions. (Undead and Humans suck you into more of a Counting House/Venture* strategy - they should get a faster start, but I think are prone to stallage.) I played Cataclysm (the cooperative scenario) once, and it was murderously difficult. I think in a future game, I'd like to help the Elves build a three demon deck, but it might be tough to get other players on board for that.

* Except that the Human version of Venture can only play other Ventures, which is a massive difference.
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DG

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2011, 02:27:20 pm »
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Ah, just remembered that I've played Rune Age too. It seemed alright and I'd play it again but it didn't excite me. Perhaps it will improve with better competition as our play improves.
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Davio

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2011, 03:45:03 pm »
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Quarriors has been mentioned a few times, here's my input: Don't buy it.

Okay, you may not yet be convinced, so I will elaborate.

You see Quarriors and, coming from Dominion, you think 'Hey! It's Dominion! With dice! I love Dominion and I love dice! This will be great!'
Unfortunately, it's more dice than Dominion and if there's some strategy involved it's certainly not more than in Risk for which good dice throwing is critical.

I played a game at a convention with pretty seasoned gamers and expected too much. I had read about the game on BGG as you might well have and though it would be great, so I had to see it for myself. It was a complete letdown. Basically we each just bought the most expensive monsters and summoned them everytime we could. We didn't have the same feeling as in Dominion in which you can build your deck and profit from it. Yes, there's luck in Dominion and your Sea Hag can be discarded by your opponent's every single time, but it's nothing compared to throwing dice. When you buy a card in Dominion, you can be pretty sure you get to play it a few times. With Quarriors, you just have to deal with what you get and what your opponents get. The scoring too is pretty awkward and very much luckbased. If you throw some good monsters, you win. Throw bad or have bad timing, you lose.

The game is also too short for the luck to even out and for you to have a sense of accomplishment for outwitting your opponents.

It's my biggest letdown of 2011.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2011, 04:14:08 pm »
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Who'd have though a dice game would be so luck based? It's a fun game if you don't expect it to be what it clearly isn't going to be.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2011, 04:28:25 pm »
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If I do purchase Quarriors, it'll be with the understanding that the game is pretty light. Factory Manager it is not.

It does look like a decent intermediate game so that my nonstrategizing friends can actually win some games (unlike others, such as Power Grid or Dungeon Keeper).

I'd probably liken this to Galaxy Trucker, except even more swingy.

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guided

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2011, 04:49:17 pm »
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Who'd have though a dice game would be so luck based?

I mean, there's something to be said for the idea that you could implement the Quarriors ruleset with a whole different set of cards that would make it a more skill-based game, and if somebody expected it to be more skill-based I don't blame them. Because given even the most rudimentary competence in play (spend most of your available money most of the time, summon your good creatures when you roll them), Quarriors isn't much more skill-based than LCR.
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Taco Lobster

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 02:11:44 pm »
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I had a friend suggest Fortunes of War for Android, but I have an iPhone and haven't been able to check it out.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 04:04:23 pm »
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I had a friend suggest Fortunes of War for Android, but I have an iPhone and haven't been able to check it out.

I haven't played FoW yet. I did download the free version to my phone. Based on the tutorial and the small bit I read on the web, I would argue against this being inspired by Dominion. It looks more like this is a reimagining of Dominion. The rules appear to be exactly the same as Dominion.

The interface looks pretty nice. It's way nicer than Androminion. Though, the latter had focus on usability. I'm not sure that FoW has that. I saw a few of the cards. One is an Orc. When it's played, your opponent gains a Wound card, which sounds like a Dominion Curse card to me. Okay, fine, -1 VP in a different package. The Elf card lets you destroy (trash) all Wound cards from your hand. So, it's like a Chapel, but it only removes the negative cards—not the Coppers and what passes for Estates.

Now, if Wounds were part of the game where there's always a chance you take Wounds, then I could see the benefit of the Elf. If not, then Elf is a poorly designed card since it does no good without the –VP cards (unlike Chapel, Steward, or any other trashing cards).

Edit: Okay, Elf has you drawing cards for each Wound you destroy. So, regarding –VP cards, it's more powerful than Dominion's Chapel. Elf at least has +1 Card/+1 Action, so it's not a dead card. Still, in Dominion, no card is completely dependent on having a specific card in play (except Potion, of course). I think that balance is important. Even the least useful cards aren't completely useless.

I'll check it out when I get home tonight. I have to go to the bank, and sometimes those lines can get long, so maybe I'll see if FoW can scratch an itch. I have fun with Androminion, but I do get bummed at playing a game with no chance of Prosperity, Cornucopia, and even Alchemy. And those AIs are dumb as bricks (seriously, you bought 9 Saboteurs?).
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 09:06:23 am by Kuildeous »
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DsnowMan

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2011, 12:23:03 pm »
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This Fortunes of War game is an amusing twist on Dominion. You get Wounds (curses) in every game, but they can easily be healed by lots of cards. When you head a wound, you always get +1 card. They kept copper, silver and gold, estate, duchy, province (which costs 9 now) and created a bunch of new cards. Some are good, some are dumb. Much more conflict. Good diversion.

Example of good card:
Stallion $6
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 $

ooo.... Lab +coin. Spammable fun

Example of weird card:
Ghost $6
3VP
+5 Cards
Each of your opponents gains a Ghost.

If your opponents never use it, the card basically reads: +5 Cards. Your opponents gain a Duchy.

Example of scary card:
Dragon $7
Your opponents gain 3 Wounds.
Trash a Treasure Card from your hand.
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ChaosRed

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2011, 12:27:37 pm »
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It's not "Dominion inspired", but a very fun, quick but clever card game I can recommend is GOSU.

It's a game where you are starving for cards...and can often reward patience (it has a built-in comeback mechanic when you are behind). It has random draws though, so you have to play with what you got...and sometimes a tactic developed early in the game will fail and you have to readjust. The artwork is excellent and its one of those games that seems simple, but you soon learn takes a while to really master...

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/66587/gosu

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rrenaud

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2011, 12:30:26 pm »
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I like gosu as well.

I think it was some annoying mechanical problems with seemingly unbounded turn lengths for players after one has passed, but I recommend people give it a try.
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ChaosRed

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2011, 12:43:33 pm »
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It's true, once you pass, your opponent can keep playing until they pass. But actually, passing early and letting your opponent take a "mega turn" can sometimes be a path to victory. Often you'll have card advantage and the comeback mechanic on your side. But yes, if standing there watching your opponent rack up points for 10 minutes sounds like it will annoy you, avoid the game. In a tournament variation, I believe you are limited to six turns post-pass...but I actually think that rule hurts the game.

Once you decide to "go for it" and burn cards to establish a big lead, you really do need to make sure you get as far ahead as you can.

So yeah, its a game of wild swings at times...and as such it produces very distorted rounds where one player makes 15 plays, while you maybe make just one (which could be as simple as drawing three cards and then passing). I agree that really puts some people off the game.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2011, 02:44:26 pm »
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This Fortunes of War game is an amusing twist on Dominion. You get Wounds (curses) in every game, but they can easily be healed by lots of cards. When you head a wound, you always get +1 card. They kept copper, silver and gold, estate, duchy, province (which costs 9 now) and created a bunch of new cards. Some are good, some are dumb. Much more conflict. Good diversion.

Curse you! I was working on a write-up, and you beat me to the punch.

Well, I was going to post it in its own topic, so I'll go do that.

But, I pretty much agree with what you've said.
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rrenaud

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2011, 02:34:46 am »
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The recent 200 post thread about the possibility of a severe imbalance in A Few Acres of Snow makes me much more hesistant to buy it.

Choice quote
Quote
Damn it I thought the Dominion "Matrix" dorks who mathematically figured out the best opening move forumlas that 100% guarantee a victory 34.3% of the time wouldn't bother with this game. I guess I was wrong.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/703495/can-france-beat-britains-settle-halifax-besiege-lo/page/4

I wonder if that qualifies me (us?) as an Uncivilized Dominion "Matrix" Barbarian of Statistics ;)


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Donald X.

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2011, 03:04:37 am »
+2

I wonder if that qualifies me (us?) as an Uncivilized Dominion "Matrix" Barbarian of Statistics ;)
Or a "dominatrix," for short.
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guided

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2011, 09:24:42 am »
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The recent 200 post thread about the possibility of a severe imbalance in A Few Acres of Snow makes me much more hesistant to buy it.
Bah, I kind of wish I hadn't just been linked to this.

Still, I suspect they will find a satisfying house-rule fix in short order, like by the time your copy arrives! One broken scripted strategy aside, I promise it's a great game.
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fencingmonkey

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2011, 06:42:06 pm »
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To bump this thread:

I played Rune Age at GenCon, enjoyed it, but wouldn't say it's very Dominion-like. It's just a card version of RuneWars, which I also enjoy, but it plays faster. It's got the same advantage as that game in that each of the 4 factions plays differently while still being well-balanced, so if you try it and hate your guys you might like a different group.

I also played Blood Bowl Team Manager. Also awesome. Also not Dominion-like. Actually not Dominion-like at all; you have a "deck" and you "build" it by winning games but you don't see the cards before you gain them. As I understand this was initially a much closer DomClone but they playtested that out of it and now we have a fun game that plays much cleaner than the tabletop and will never make you think of Smithies.
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ChaosRed

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2011, 05:38:45 pm »
+1

Who'd have though a dice game would be so luck based? It's a fun game if you don't expect it to be what it clearly isn't going to be.

I love luck games. There's something very democratic and friendly about them. As someone who has been a gamer now for over 30 years, I find games are often like a lot of things, like wine, or film, or books, certain ones fit a certain situation, others fit a certain group of friends or time of day.

One of the great things about luck games, is they let you focus your brain on other things, like the meta-game. A good luck game, mixed with friends who can talk smack, or meta-game with humor, is an awesome time. You add a little beer to the mix and some friendly banter about sports, movies and other bullshit and you have one helluva Thursday night.

Reading the "Acres of Snow" posts, reminds me of the nerdery surrounding Axis and Allies, and the numerous, endless derivatives, variants and house rules that game generates.
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guided

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2011, 06:02:11 pm »
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Having actually playtested that strategy in AFAoS now... man, no lie, the game is thoroughly broken once you learn it :-\ Desperately hoping for some kind of fix. Martin Wallace has at least acknowledged the issue at this point, so the designer is on the case I guess.
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DG

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2011, 06:36:11 pm »
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That's a shame, I'll have to behave myself and not read that thread.
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cdnza

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2011, 06:01:12 pm »
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We got AFAOS fairly recently and have found it to be excellent, admittedly after only <10 plays. I actually enjoy it more than Twilight Struggle (which we got at about the same time), though I think that might be because my concentration starts to fail me after three hours of TS!
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Davio

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #47 on: December 25, 2011, 06:06:53 pm »
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Can anyone comment about Thunderstone's evolution?

I believe it was just a general Dominion clone at first with some twists. From what I read on the internet it has developed into a good game of its own with the later expansions.

Haven't had the chance to play this myself however.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2011, 04:26:38 pm »
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Can anyone comment about Thunderstone's evolution?

I believe it was just a general Dominion clone at first with some twists. From what I read on the internet it has developed into a good game of its own with the later expansions.

Haven't had the chance to play this myself however.

I have the first two expansions for Thunderstone. I haven't really followed up with the others. Honestly, I haven't played Thunderstone in a while. Mostly, that's because TS games run longer, and it is more daunting for new players.

From what I've seen, they're introducing more player-damaging effects. I've seen more of the characters who damage others when played. There seems to be more multi-purpose cards. As you might know, in TS, you choose to go to the village or to the dungeon. Problem being, of course, that if you have village cards, then going to the dungeon sucks and vice-versa. So, having more flexibility is good too.

One thing about TS is that you can have some boring sets. In Dominion, if you have a poor kingdom, you still have Big Money to fall back on. There are threads about making the most useless Dominion kingdom. But, even the most useless of cards can still be used. Sure, they may not be optimal, but you can always make use of a Pearl Diver, Explorer, or Stash.

In TS, it's conceivable that you could draw cards that won't work. For example, some creatures require magic to defeat them. It's possible to lay out a village with no magic available. With each expansion, there are more options for this to happen. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it's possible to have all three monsters require magic, which means that no one can defeat one of them. This can be fixed by sending one to the bottom of the deck, but that requires someone to essentially give up his turn. And that's boring anyway. TS players need to be experienced enough to realize when this happens (or just focus entirely on published lists).

I like the game. It has multiple resources to juggle (coins, attack strength, light, experience, strength). It's a Dominion clone only in the regard that it has the deck-building engine. Everything else is done differently, though. 
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Are any Dominion inspired games worth playing?
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2011, 05:37:54 am »
+2

Not at all related to the current discussion, but the guy who runs my boardgame club picked up a copy of Ascension for cheap at Essen this year. He knew I was a fan of Dominion so he gave it to me to bring home for a couple of weeks and learn the rules and have a few test-plays so that I could teach it to people at club meets. Now, I know that some people here say that it is "everything I hate about Dominion made into a game" and stuff like that, but I actually had a great time with it. At home, the only person I have to play games with is my girlfriend. We've played Dominion in the past (we still do but rarely) and she likes the mechanics of the game, she just doesn't like playing that much because she can't win. That's not her fault, it's just that I have over a year's worth of Dominion strategy studying under my belt and she doesn't. I bought Quarriors when it came out because "it's like Dominion but it relies a bit more on luck", and that went down pretty well but for some reason we don't pull it out that much, probably because it takes so long to sort out the dice and some of the creatures' effects are pretty confusing. When we had 2 weeks of Ascencion she loved it. She kept asking for another game and in the end we must have played at least 10 games over the two weeks (and at one point we played until midnight because we lost track of time), compared to our usual 1 game of something per fortnight if I'm lucky.

Now, I can understand why some people don't like it. You can be screwed out of a win because the right cards don't turn up. There are only a limited number of strategies and after a few games you've learned everything there is to it (although I don't think Emily has memorised all of the cards yet like I have, but she still knows "Mechana Construct: that's a card that is worth a lot of points but doesn't let me do much else other than getting more Mechana Constructs"). But I'm glad the game is like that. If I want to play a deck building game where the game is actually over before the first purchase is made because the game is actually coming up with the best strategy before the game starts, I'll play Dominion. And hey, I still do play Dominion very often. I play pretty much every day apart from when I'm away from home for christmas and don't have internet access. But if I wan't to play a deck building game where my girlfriend wants to play with me and we can both have fun and the winner isn't already determined before we open the game box, Ascension turns out to be a great choice.

Now I just need to get a copy for myself since we don't have the club copy anymore...
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