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Author Topic: Fan card idea: Vintner  (Read 3898 times)

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Adrienaline

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Fan card idea: Vintner
« on: April 19, 2012, 01:00:50 pm »
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I've been thinking about the wording of this, not too sure it works as priced or with the negative idea, but I like the ideas seperately.

$2: Action: Vintner
+1 Buy
+1 Potion OR +$2
When you gain this, gain two cards costing less than this.

Effectively it's a cheaper woodcutter with a Cache downside, but slightly more power in alchemy decks, particularly vineyards (hence the name).

Is it too broken in its current form with the combos available? Too cheap? Should it just be priced at $4 and remove the downside?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 03:04:53 pm »
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Without the drawback it becomes rather difficult to price.  You can't put it at $3 because it is strictly better than Woodcutter.  On the other hand, if there are no potion-cost cards on the board, it is exactly the same as Woodcutter while being more expensive.  If both are on the board without potions there is no point getting this card (barring interaction with Haggler and trash-for-benefit cards).

Is there a reason why you phrased it as "two cards costing less than this" rather than just "two copper"?  People could choose to gain curses, but that would happen very, very rarely.  I suppose you could also play two highways and avoid the drawback... but still, this is a really cheap card; if you've already got highways going you probably have better things to buy.
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Ozle

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 03:59:54 pm »
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It wouldn't work with highways would it, because then the card itself could cost less, and your gaining them on the same turn. (so two highways and you would get nothing)

Oh wait, I see, thats what you mean, nevermind!
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Jorbles

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 04:37:26 pm »
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Edit: You can ignore all this. I hadn't read eHalcyon's post.

It wouldn't work with highways would it, because then the card itself could cost less, and your gaining them on the same turn. (so two highways and you would get nothing)

Oh wait, I see, thats what you mean, nevermind!

Highways could break this card. What happens if you play two Highways? Then it costs $0 and nothing can cost less than it, but you still have to gain two cards that cost less than it. I guess that means you just don't have to gain anything, but that seems to be against what you designed. (Ditto for Bridges, Quarries, Princess)

Why not change it to say gain two Coppers or Curses?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 04:40:41 pm by Jorbles »
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Adrienaline

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 01:20:42 am »
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It's actually intended that way, I like the idea of a cheap card that has this downside, but can be comboed easily with highway, bridge, peddler, quarry, watchtower etc to remove it. The card isn't good enough to break the game otherwise (it's cheap woodcutter plus) on purpose.

Maybe this card isn't the best one to chain this downside to. Something like +1 action +$2, gain two cards costing less than this when you gain it for $2 could work, and just price this at $4. But then it's a more expensive woodcutter if there are no potion cards, it becomes impossible to price.

Also, with the phrasing the way it is, does it allow you to gain curses if the curse pile runs out (similar to torturer)? Because that was the intent.
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chwhite

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 02:00:26 am »
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If both are on the board without potions there is no point getting this card (barring interaction with Haggler and trash-for-benefit cards).

Gardens begs to disagree.
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Powerman

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 08:00:14 am »
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To make it better than Woodcutter:

Choose 2: +2 Buys; or +2$; or +P.

Not that people want 2 buys from one card that often but...
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Adrienaline

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 08:13:47 am »
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So like this?

Vintner - $4
Choose 2
+2 buys
+$2
+P

Which leaves room for
Artistian - $2
+1 action
+$2
When you gain this card, gain two cards costing less than this.
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AJD

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 09:52:27 am »
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Also, with the phrasing the way it is, does it allow you to gain curses if the curse pile runs out (similar to torturer)? Because that was the intent.

Nope. "Gain a card costing up to X" requires you to actually carry out the gain with a card that exists if possible.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 02:00:25 pm »
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Also, with the phrasing the way it is, does it allow you to gain curses if the curse pile runs out (similar to torturer)? Because that was the intent.

As AJD said, no. But you could say "choose 1: Gain 2 Curses, or Gain 2 Coppers." That would allow you to not gain anything after Curses are gone.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 04:46:07 pm »
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If both are on the board without potions there is no point getting this card (barring interaction with Haggler and trash-for-benefit cards).

Gardens begs to disagree.

Oops.  This too!
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Ozle

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 06:53:38 pm »
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Could work for peddler as well!
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Schneau

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Re: Fan card idea: Vintner
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 09:22:29 pm »
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Vintner in it's original description is almost definitely better than Woodcutter or Workshop in a Gardens game. But as far as I'm concerned, that's not a problem, but a bonus.
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