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Author Topic: Not a misclick  (Read 7126 times)

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blueblimp

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Not a misclick
« on: April 13, 2012, 06:28:50 pm »
0

You play an Ambassador, revealing a Colony and returning one copy to the supply. Why?

Rules:
- It is not a Possession turn. (That would be too easy.)
- Returning a Colony to the supply is the best move to make in the situation.
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Galzria

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 06:39:01 pm »
0

Your opponent had played a lighthouse the turn before, and there is only one colony left in the supply, which you know he can buy his next turn (bureaucrat hand reveal showed you). You are running an alternate vp strategy, say vineyards, which are worth 10+. You can buy 2 of 4 this turn, with 2 herbalist and a scheme in play, and you are trailing by 19.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 06:43:38 pm by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 07:02:45 pm »
0

This was my first thought, but I don't think it's correct.

You are in a 3-player game and you have a decent lead.  There is 1 Colony left in the supply and you don't have enough to buy it.  The next player is set up to have a mega turn where she'll buy the last Colony and a bunch of Provinces to win.  Your move returns the 1 Colony and gives 1 each to the other players, emptying the Colony pile and giving you the win.

I think this answer is incorrect because you can opt to return 0 Colonies and still empty the pile with Ambassador.
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DG

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 07:46:36 pm »
+6

You've played a golem and turned over an ambassador and a trading post with only the colony in hand. Knowing that you have the coins to buy all the remaining colonies back at the end of the turn, due to previously playing many king's courts and grand markets, you send the colony to the supply rather than trash it. Your opponent has a lighthouse so the colony remains in the supply.
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ehunt

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 08:03:14 pm »
+2

I like DG's solution more than these two, but I'll post them. 1 is airtight but silly; 2 is vague but more likely to happen.

1. you've played a goons this turn and, after some serious king's courtin', you've managed to acquire enough money and buys to buy every single card in the supply. you compute that doing this will cause you to tie the score and thus lose on turns (your opponent's been goonsing a lot too, and has some seriously nasty business on an island mat, i dunno), but your opponent played a lighthouse last turn, so returning the colony (which is the only card in your hand) gives you the chance to buy it back and get that critical point from the goons.

2. again requires the opponent to block the attack, but maybe it's a goons game that you really want to last longer (e.g. you're a little behind but you're netting more than 20 points a turn at this stage of the game). your opponent will almost surely be able to buy the last colony next turn, and you want one more turn (even if it means him getting one more colony).
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ftl

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 09:13:19 pm »
+2

I like mine! I claim that in this case, ambassadoring the colony is the best move, though others may disagree :-p

You are far ahead in points, more than 20 points ahead of your two opponents, who are tied. There is one Colony remaining, but you won't have enough coin to buy it, so you decide to Ambassador a Colony of yours to end the game with a win. But you don't want to play kingmaker and break the fair tie between the other two players by giving one of them a free Colony, so you return one of your Colonies to the supply; both opponents gain a Colony; the game ends, with you the victor and both opponents tied for second/third.
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Galzria

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 09:25:58 pm »
0

I like mine! I claim that in this case, ambassadoring the colony is the best move, though others may disagree :-p

You are far ahead in points, more than 20 points ahead of your two opponents, who are tied. There is one Colony remaining, but you won't have enough coin to buy it, so you decide to Ambassador a Colony of yours to end the game with a win. But you don't want to play kingmaker and break the fair tie between the other two players by giving one of them a free Colony, so you return one of your Colonies to the supply; both opponents gain a Colony; the game ends, with you the victor and both opponents tied for second/third.

The game is called Dominion. Not "Let's be nice and let my opponents share in equal defeat." I want to CRUSH THEM. I *am* Kingmaker, and I'M THE KING.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

paddyodoors

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 09:45:18 pm »
0

I like mine! I claim that in this case, ambassadoring the colony is the best move, though others may disagree :-p

You are far ahead in points, more than 20 points ahead of your two opponents, who are tied. There is one Colony remaining, but you won't have enough coin to buy it, so you decide to Ambassador a Colony of yours to end the game with a win. But you don't want to play kingmaker and break the fair tie between the other two players by giving one of them a free Colony, so you return one of your Colonies to the supply; both opponents gain a Colony; the game ends, with you the victor and both opponents tied for second/third.

...
Rules:
...
- Returning a Colony to the supply is the best move to make in the situation.



IMHO, "the best move" is not simply a move chosen amongst other good moves.  :P

Unless you are positing that blueblimp intended to introduce some meta-ranking of moves based on how they would make people feel rather than a strict ranking of objective, self-interested in-game goods to be pursued... in that case, you'll have to ask the rule-maker.   ;)

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blueblimp

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 09:58:26 pm »
+2

Great answers. The king making one is quite creative. :)

Here's what I had in mind:

One colony in the supply. You have 4 colonies in your deck and your opponent has 3 and a province. Otherwise, VP is equal. Your opponent played a lighthouse the previous turn.

Your hand is Ambassador, Menagerie, Platinum, Copper, and two Colonies. You have 2 actions available, and since you've been paying attention you know your draw deck has just a Salvager, a Copper, and a Platinum. By sending back the Colony, you may then play your Menagerie to draw those three cards. You may then salvage the remaining Colony in hand, allowing you to buy both remaining Colonies to win the game.

If you hadn't sent the Colony back, your Menagerie might draw only the Copper, which would be disastrous.
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Galzria

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 12:28:53 am »
0

Is mine the only one so far that has THE BEST PLAY to be returning one BECAUSE you're behind, and absolutely know that the extra turn provided will net you a win?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 12:31:11 am by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

jimjam

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 03:16:00 am »
+5

Skirting blueblimp's rules to the max:

Your opponent has draw, KCs, Ambassadors.
You foolishly have nothing of note but one Ambassador, one Possession, and one Colony (and I guess a Village). The other 7 colonies are still in the pile.
You possess your opponent and send the Colony over.
On their turn, you KC Ambassador all 8 colonies back to yourself.
Your opponent then rage-quits Dominion forever.
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paddyodoors

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 08:40:22 am »
0

Skirting blueblimp's rules to the max:

Your opponent has draw, KCs, Ambassadors.
You foolishly have nothing of note but one Ambassador, one Possession, and one Colony (and I guess a Village). The other 7 colonies are still in the pile.
You possess your opponent and send the Colony over.
On their turn, you KC Ambassador all 8 colonies back to yourself.
Your opponent then rage-quits Dominion forever.


last line rofl rofl rofl
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blueblimp

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 02:27:42 pm »
0

Skirting blueblimp's rules to the max:

Your opponent has draw, KCs, Ambassadors.
You foolishly have nothing of note but one Ambassador, one Possession, and one Colony (and I guess a Village). The other 7 colonies are still in the pile.
You possess your opponent and send the Colony over.
On their turn, you KC Ambassador all 8 colonies back to yourself.
Your opponent then rage-quits Dominion forever.


Cute solution, but... isn't it better to return 0 Colonies to the supply instead of 1?
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jimjam

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 04:16:53 pm »
0

oh, right >.<

Ok, here's a crappy patchup: Your opponent is running Throne Rooms instead of KCs, and some Saboteurs/Swindlers; Since you start with no Colonies, you can play them first without fear of destroying anything important.
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Davio

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 05:47:01 pm »
0

A variation of: You are behind....


Having played all Highways, Colonies now cost $1 and the rest costs $0.
You Golemed or (Throne Roomed) into a Develop so you have to forcibly get the last Colony and put it on your deck.
You draw it somehow (Golemed into Lab too) and need to Ambassador it back to not end the game while behind.
Your opponent needs to have Lighthouse in play (or shows a Moat) so he isn't affected by your Ambassador.

Some cards can be replaced by others, but the idea will stay the same.
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occupy grand market

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 12:43:05 am »
+4


You're in a Gardens/Vineyard/Fairgrounds game and you have a lot of Hagglers in play. You've played sufficient Highways/Princesses/Bridges such that a Colony is worth $1 or $2 and everything else is worth $0. You're heavily laden with the aforementioned green cards. Your opponent has a lighthouse in play. You can maximize the size and diversity of your deck by maximizing the number of Colonies you buy this turn, since you'll be able to Haggle for more cards only from buying the Colonies.
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mDuo13

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 02:25:27 am »
0


You're in a Gardens/Vineyard/Fairgrounds game and you have a lot of Hagglers in play. You've played sufficient Highways/Princesses/Bridges such that a Colony is worth $1 or $2 and everything else is worth $0. You're heavily laden with the aforementioned green cards. Your opponent has a lighthouse in play. You can maximize the size and diversity of your deck by maximizing the number of Colonies you buy this turn, since you'll be able to Haggle for more cards only from buying the Colonies.

You might be able to come up with a variant of this that involves the Provinces being almost gone and your only chance of victory this turn being Haggler->Border Village->Duchy multiple times in the turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 02:57:34 pm »
+1

Not a single solution that doesn't involve Lighthouse?

Here's one:

Your opponent's hand contains 4 Curses and a Hamlet (which you know because of Cutpurse or whatever). His deck contains 10 Grand Markets and 10 Markets (which you know because you've been paying careful attention. Also, his entire deck is currently in his discard.

Your deck has 3 Curses, a Colony, an Ambassador, and a bunch of Peddlers and Treasuries. You also have your entire pile in your discard.

You are ahead by more than 20 points; the game is close to ending (1 card left in a third pile). This was your last action and you have no money to spend. If you do anything but give him your Colony, he will be able to buy the last Colony and a few Provinces on his turn to win. By giving him a Colony, he now has a 1 in 21 chance of drawing that Colony with his Hamlet, thus disabling him completely. On your turn you could then easily end the game with the win.

Sure it's just a 1 in 21 chance of winning, but that's the best move compared to an ensured loss!

So why not just return 0 to the supply? Because that give you a chance of drawing 3 Curses + 1 Colony + Ambassador; thus once again being unable to buy the last card. By returning 1 to the supply, you guarantee that you can buy the last card on your turn to win.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:04:27 pm by GendoIkari »
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occupy grand market

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2012, 03:47:42 pm »
+1

Not a single solution that doesn't involve Lighthouse?

Here's one:

Your opponent's hand contains 4 Curses and a Hamlet (which you know because of Cutpurse or whatever). His deck contains 10 Grand Markets and 10 Markets (which you know because you've been paying careful attention. Also, his entire deck is currently in his discard.

Your deck has 3 Curses, a Colony, an Ambassador, and a bunch of Peddlers and Treasuries. You also have your entire pile in your discard.

You are ahead by more than 20 points; the game is close to ending (1 card left in a third pile). This was your last action and you have no money to spend. If you do anything but give him your Colony, he will be able to buy the last Colony and a few Provinces on his turn to win. By giving him a Colony, he now has a 1 in 21 chance of drawing that Colony with his Hamlet, thus disabling him completely. On your turn you could then easily end the game with the win.

Sure it's just a 1 in 21 chance of winning, but that's the best move compared to an ensured loss!

So why not just return 0 to the supply? Because that give you a chance of drawing 3 Curses + 1 Colony + Ambassador; thus once again being unable to buy the last card. By returning 1 to the supply, you guarantee that you can buy the last card on your turn to win.


I'm not sure this one works. You could just as easily get rid of the Curses to get space in your deck (and fill up space in his).
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:52:25 pm by occupy grand market »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2012, 12:31:27 am »
0

Not a single solution that doesn't involve Lighthouse?

Here's one:

Your opponent's hand contains 4 Curses and a Hamlet (which you know because of Cutpurse or whatever). His deck contains 10 Grand Markets and 10 Markets (which you know because you've been paying careful attention. Also, his entire deck is currently in his discard.

Your deck has 3 Curses, a Colony, an Ambassador, and a bunch of Peddlers and Treasuries. You also have your entire pile in your discard.

You are ahead by more than 20 points; the game is close to ending (1 card left in a third pile). This was your last action and you have no money to spend. If you do anything but give him your Colony, he will be able to buy the last Colony and a few Provinces on his turn to win. By giving him a Colony, he now has a 1 in 21 chance of drawing that Colony with his Hamlet, thus disabling him completely. On your turn you could then easily end the game with the win.

Sure it's just a 1 in 21 chance of winning, but that's the best move compared to an ensured loss!

So why not just return 0 to the supply? Because that give you a chance of drawing 3 Curses + 1 Colony + Ambassador; thus once again being unable to buy the last card. By returning 1 to the supply, you guarantee that you can buy the last card on your turn to win.


I'm not sure this one works. You could just as easily get rid of the Curses to get space in your deck (and fill up space in his).



The Curses may have not been in your hand at the time. I guess that's only possible if you slightly change things though.... Just replace all curses in your deck with colonies and it should work.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:05:51 am by GendoIkari »
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cherdano

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2012, 01:14:24 am »
0

You've played a golem and turned over an ambassador and a trading post with only the colony in hand. Knowing that you have the coins to buy all the remaining colonies back at the end of the turn, due to previously playing many king's courts and grand markets, you send the colony to the supply rather than trash it. Your opponent has a lighthouse so the colony remains in the supply.
I think you can omit the story about king's courts and grand markets - forced to choose between trashing a colony and returning a colony to the supply, it's easy to think of situations where it's beneficial to return it to the supply. For example, you might prefer an even number of colonies left to an odd number because you own the tie-breaker from Monuments.
It even sounds realistic - don't we always draw trading post or ambassador when we play golem with just a colony in hand?  ;) ;D
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Grujah

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2012, 03:50:02 pm »
+2

Another one, no LIGHTHOUSES and ends game with a win in the same turn (would lose otherwise, and you are even losing on the start of the turn!).

You've KCed a TR. With your first 2 TR actions you managed to gain last few colonies (lets say Remodel + Platinums) and establish a 10 point lead, but are left with a Colony and Golem in your hand.
TR forces you to play the Golem. You draw a Trading Post and a Ambassador. Now, you know that the last 2 actions in your deck are SaboteurSwinder and Jester. You opponent has only 5 cards (all in his hand) and none in his deck or discard.
If you use the trading post first, you will destroy your Colony, Ambassador nothing and Jester and SabSwinder will hit nothing and you end up losing on turns. (Same happens if you play Ambassador first and do not return a Colony, as opponent cannot gain it).
Buut.. If you Ambassador a Colony first, and use TP on nothing, now when your TRed Golem hits SaboteurSwinder and Jester, you give him curse and destroy his Colony, and you win with 1 point advantage.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 04:16:25 pm by Grujah »
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blueblimp

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2012, 04:13:17 pm »
0

Nice. Might be more reliable if that Saboteur is a Swindler, since otherwise your opponent might downgrade that Colony to a Province or other VP card.
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Grujah

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2012, 04:16:34 pm »
0

Right. Fixed.

You can always say somehow all those are gone too, but its cleaner this way.  ;D
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Galzria

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Re: Not a misclick
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2012, 05:47:25 pm »
0

Grujah, why not TR the KC, playing both KC on remodels, using the first 4 plays to convert plat into colony, the last 2 to convert the colony to a province, and golem to X? You should still win by 6 + X (if X is a VP card)
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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