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Author Topic: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw  (Read 8262 times)

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sitnaltax

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That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« on: April 10, 2012, 02:01:16 am »
+1

Several times, about 30% of the way through the game, there is a terrible moment where I realize that I'm going to lose because my "interesting" strategy has a flaw...

...Because Smugglers won't snuggle an Alchemist.
...Because even after two Highways, Talisman won't copy Nobles.
...Because after I discard to my opponent's Vault, I no longer can discard enough to my own to have $6.
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jonts26

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 02:02:50 am »
+4

...Because Smugglers won't snuggle an Alchemist.

To be fair, I've never taken smugglers to make the best snuggle buddies.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 02:08:20 am »
0

...Because Smugglers won't snuggle an Alchemist.

To be fair, I've never taken smugglers to make the best snuggle buddies.
A pity. You're really missing out.

Kuildeous

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 08:22:10 am »
0

...Because Smugglers won't snuggle an Alchemist.

To be fair, I've never taken smugglers to make the best snuggle buddies.

I know several women who would love to snuggle Han Solo. And a few guys.

Not me, though. I don't go for scruffy nerf herders.
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Davio

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 08:43:20 am »
0

Good ol' Han, Yohoho and a bottle of carbonite.
Han shot first! At least, before the edit.
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paddyodoors

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 08:48:45 am »
0

I really did lol at the snuggling.  ;D ;D ;D

I totally know what the OP is talking about here... just yesterday it happened to me that my heavy-Scheme-dependent plan was utterly and completely nullified by the opponent going for Minions.  How and why I thought it was a good idea to be doing this I am not sure.

And you're right, it was about a third of the way into the game that I realized it.  You get a real sinking feeling. :(
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Tables

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 08:53:30 am »
0

Glancing across the board... 'yes, this'll be an amazing engine board! I can probably set up a triple Province turn, and still keep my engine rolling.'

7 turns later

'Hang on, I'm sure there was extra buy... oh, right. It's Tactician. Oops.'
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Kahryl

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 09:44:41 am »
0

..because Courtyard in an engine deck basically reads "+2 cards"
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Papa Luigi

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 11:08:27 am »
0

A few things that I've done on Isotropic:

- Drawing a $6 hand near the end of the game, playing all my treasures, and buying a Farmland, intending to trash the Gold (that I had already played) into a Province, not realizing I had to leave something in my hand. Could have bought a Duchy...
- Playing an Envoy (or any other terminal draw) and then frantically clicking on a +action card I drew, reloading the page, checking the trackpad, and only then realizing that I have no actions left
- Playing a Remake when I only have one card in my hand that I want to trash
- Hitting the "play all treasures" button, forgetting to play my Contraband first. I did this two or three times in a row before I finally started playing Contraband first.
- The first time I played with Hamlet, I was discarding cards every time I played it. Then I realized I didn't have to.
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philosophyguy

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2012, 11:21:53 am »
+1

I can't count the number of times I've mapped out a Farmland strategy only to realize that it's a Fairgrounds, not a Farmland. I don't know why those cards are so easy to confuse while other Kingdom cards are not. I've never mixed up a Gardens and a Silk Road, nor a Contraband and a Cache.
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Voltgloss

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 01:45:00 pm »
0

I can't count the number of times I've mapped out a Farmland strategy only to realize that it's a Fairgrounds, not a Farmland. I don't know why those cards are so easy to confuse while other Kingdom cards are not. I've never mixed up a Gardens and a Silk Road, nor a Contraband and a Cache.

Same first letter (as opposed to Gardens/Silk Road) plus similar word length (as opposed to Contraband/Cache) = confusion ahoy.  See also:  Mint/Mine.
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Papa Luigi

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2012, 01:47:06 pm »
0

Oh yeah, one time I bought Cellar by accident when I meant to buy Chapel. Same number of letters, same cost, same starting letter... I ended up Chapeling the Cellar at one point. I think I even managed to win, don't remember.
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Robz888

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 01:52:27 pm »
+1

Oh yeah, one time I bought Cellar by accident when I meant to buy Chapel. Same number of letters, same cost, same starting letter... I ended up Chapeling the Cellar at one point. I think I even managed to win, don't remember.

When I first started playing on Isotropic back in August or so, confusing Chapel/Cellar was a recurring mistake I would make. "Okay, I'm just going to Cellar away that Province... what, I trashed it? NOOOOOOOOO....." Seriously, I did that once.
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Avin

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 02:14:44 pm »
0

I can't count the number of times I've mapped out a Farmland strategy only to realize that it's a Fairgrounds, not a Farmland. I don't know why those cards are so easy to confuse while other Kingdom cards are not. I've never mixed up a Gardens and a Silk Road, nor a Contraband and a Cache.

I definitely bought what I thought was a Fairgrounds and got very confused at why Isotropic forced me to trash the Province in my hand.
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AJD

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 02:38:25 pm »
0

See this thread for more cases of that type of confusion.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 01:46:29 am by AJD »
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GreyICE

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 07:27:04 pm »
0

Never happened to me, but I watched my opponent open a 5/2 by buying Mint, which he thought was a Mine.

I've tried it, and buying a mint in a 5/2 split is... not a good idea.  Maybe if Mandarin is on the board, and Chapel... though that's a really specific set of circumstances.
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dondon151

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2012, 08:51:49 pm »
0

Way back when a friend of mine didn't completely understand how King's Court worked, he thought he could KC a Shanty Town, reveal no actions in hand, and then draw 6 cards all at once. Needless to say, we pointed out that he had to reveal his hand every time that KC "plays" Shanty Town, and his plan went down the toilet.

One that I had recently was building a double Tactician deck that used Bishop to gain VP and generate a little bit of coin for buys, then accidentally trashing the last card in my hand that I had to discard when playing Tactician.
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Papa Luigi

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2012, 09:43:54 pm »
0

Never happened to me, but I watched my opponent open a 5/2 by buying Mint, which he thought was a Mine.

I've tried it, and buying a mint in a 5/2 split is... not a good idea.  Maybe if Mandarin is on the board, and Chapel... though that's a really specific set of circumstances.

Mint/Fool's Gold is a godly opening, but yeah, Mint is a pretty risky proposition on a 5/2 opening. Maybe Mint/Duchess to offset the loss of so much of your starting treasure?
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Axxle

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 10:27:11 pm »
0

Never happened to me, but I watched my opponent open a 5/2 by buying Mint, which he thought was a Mine.

I've tried it, and buying a mint in a 5/2 split is... not a good idea.  Maybe if Mandarin is on the board, and Chapel... though that's a really specific set of circumstances.

Mint/Fool's Gold is a godly opening, but yeah, Mint is a pretty risky proposition on a 5/2 opening. Maybe Mint/Duchess to offset the loss of so much of your starting treasure?

Really, Mint / Fool's Gold is the only great opening with Mint. Most other openings are very average or very bad.

Many times I have almost gone for a Golden Deck with Masquerade or a hand size decreaser on the board.  Luckily I noticed them before I did irreparable harm to my deck.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 10:30:09 pm by Axxle »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 10:32:58 pm »
0

Mint/Not-fool's-gold may not be great, but silver/- or something like silver/duchess, silver/secret chamber/ or silver/lighthouse are usually quite bad, so the mint route might be best anyway.

Kirian

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 09:31:18 am »
0

I think Mint/Lighthouse has a more-than-decent chance... with absolute worst luck you still get a second Lighthouse on T4, and your chances of Silver on T3 or T4 (or both) is quite high, with Gold by T7-8 and a very trim deck.

With a $4 TFB on board for later it's almost a no-brainer.
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Davio

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2012, 10:01:00 am »
0

Oh yeah, one time I bought Cellar by accident when I meant to buy Chapel. Same number of letters, same cost, same starting letter... I ended up Chapeling the Cellar at one point. I think I even managed to win, don't remember.
What's even more evil is that they provide the same interface response.
If you start with a 5 card hand, both Chapel and Cellar provide 4 checkboxes with card names.
One trashes them, one replaces them....
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verikt

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2012, 11:36:06 am »
0

I don't think mint embargo or mint secret chamber are that bad.
My worst game was as a noob. I forged everything and thought I still had a gold left that I didn't draw. Which left me three turns of buying copper midgame.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2012, 11:47:32 am »
0

Oh yeah, one time I bought Cellar by accident when I meant to buy Chapel. Same number of letters, same cost, same starting letter... I ended up Chapeling the Cellar at one point. I think I even managed to win, don't remember.
What's even more evil is that they provide the same interface response.
If you start with a 5 card hand, both Chapel and Cellar provide 4 checkboxes with card names.
One trashes them, one replaces them....
I have trashed Colony on a (opponent's) bishop thinking it was a copper.  That was heartbreaking. 
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theory

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Re: That realization that your strategy has a gaping flaw
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 10:15:47 am »
+1

When running a Cartographer/Conspirator/Ghost Ship engine, it is critically important, when your opponent attacks with Ghost Ship, to put your Conspirators back on the deck and have a hand full of Cartographers, not the other way around.
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