Dominion > Rules Questions

Harbor Village and Inspiring

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Jeebus:
Oh no, more Harbor Village stuff.

From the wiki:
Normally, playing 2 consecutive Harbor Villages won't give +$. However, if your 2nd Harbor Village causes you play an Action giving +$ (e.g. the Harbor Village is Inspired), then the 2nd Harbor Village will give +$, which will cause the 1st Harbor Village to give +$1.

No source is given. I don't see how this can be correct. Inspiring says you play another card afterwards, which must be the same timing as Royal Carriage and League of Shopkeepers. None of those cause Harbor Village to give +$1. And you can of course choose in which order to resolve Inspiring, Royal Carriage and League of Shopkeepers. A Throne Room playing a Market also does not cause Harbor Village to give +$1.

AJD:
Harbor Village also has the same timing as Inspiring, Royal Carriage, etc.—i.e., "after" you play an Action—so you can also choose in which order to resolve it and Inspiring. So I guess formally, what this ruling should say is that you may receive the +$1 from the first Harbor Village in that scenario, if you choose to order them properly. Here's how it works:

Play Harbor Village [1].
..Get +1 card and +2 Actions.
..Inspiring triggers: you may play a card you don't have a copy of in play. Decline to do so.
Play Harbor Village [2].
..Get +1 card and +2 Actions.
..Inspiring and Harbor Village [1] both trigger.
....Choose to resolve Inspiring first.
......Play Guildmaster
........Get +$3.
........Harbor Village [2] triggers.
..........Did Guildmaster give you +$? Yes it did. Therefore, Harbor Village [2] gives you +$1.
....Resolve Harbor Village [1] second.
......Did Harbor Village [2] give you +$? Yes it did. Therefore, Harbor Village [1] gives you +$1.

I guess your comment about Royal Carriage has to do with, if you play Harbor Village, Steward for+cards, call Royal Carriage, Steward for +$, then Harbor Village doesn't give you +$ for the second play of Steward? That reason you don't get the +$ there doesn't have anything to do with the timing; you're right that the timing is the same as the Inspiring scenario above. It's because what Harbor Village cares about (apparently) is whether the first act of playing an Action card after it gave you +$, not whether additional acts of playing the same card give +$.

This interpretation of Harbor Village is comparable to that of Conspirator, which says "If you’ve played 3 or more Actions", but actually means 'if you've played Actions three or more times'. This is why Throne Room / Conspirator gives you a cantrip effect from the replaying of Conspirator, even though you've only actually played two Action cards. Similarly, the "it" in Harbor Village's "if it gave you +$" doesn't actually mean 'that Action card', but rather 'that time playing the Action card'.

Jeebus:

--- Quote from: AJD on January 27, 2023, 09:21:42 am ---Harbor Village also has the same timing as Inspiring, Royal Carriage, etc.—i.e., "after" you play an Action—so you can also choose in which order to resolve it and Inspiring. So I guess formally, what this ruling should say is that you may receive the +$1 from the first Harbor Village in that scenario, if you choose to order them properly. Here's how it works:

Play Harbor Village [1].
..Get +1 card and +2 Actions.
..Inspiring triggers: you may play a card you don't have a copy of in play. Decline to do so.
Play Harbor Village [2].
..Get +1 card and +2 Actions.
..Inspiring and Harbor Village [1] both trigger.
....Choose to resolve Inspiring first.
......Play Guildmaster
........Get +$3.
........Harbor Village [2] triggers.
..........Did Guildmaster give you +$? Yes it did. Therefore, Harbor Village [2] gives you +$1.
....Resolve Harbor Village [1] second.
......Did Harbor Village [2] give you +$? Yes it did. Therefore, Harbor Village [1] gives you +$1.

I guess your comment about Royal Carriage has to do with, if you play Harbor Village, Steward for+cards, call Royal Carriage, Steward for +$, then Harbor Village doesn't give you +$ for the second play of Steward? That reason you don't get the +$ there doesn't have anything to do with the timing; you're right that the timing is the same as the Inspiring scenario above. It's because what Harbor Village cares about (apparently) is whether the first act of playing an Action card after it gave you +$, not whether additional acts of playing the same card give +$.

This interpretation of Harbor Village is comparable to that of Conspirator, which says "If you’ve played 3 or more Actions", but actually means 'if you've played Actions three or more times'. This is why Throne Room / Conspirator gives you a cantrip effect from the replaying of Conspirator, even though you've only actually played two Action cards. Similarly, the "it" in Harbor Village's "if it gave you +$" doesn't actually mean 'that Action card', but rather 'that time playing the Action card'.

--- End quote ---

I meant, the fact that they have the same timing shows that it's something that triggers after you played and completely finished resolving the played card, so it's not something that would be seen as "gotten from playing the card".

Example with Inspiring on Sycophant:

Play Harbor Village (+1 Card, +2 Actions)
Play Sycophant (+1 Action, don't discard)
..Harbor Village, Royal Carriage, League of Shopkeepers and Inspiring all trigger.
....Resolve Royal Carriage (replay Sycophant, this time discard and get +$3)
....Resolve League of Shopkeepers (get +$1)
....Resolve Inspiring (play Guildmaster and get +$3)
....Resolve Harbor Village (You didn't get +$ from playing Sycophant the first time)

Why would Inspiring be different from Royal Carriage and League of Shopkeepers here? They all trigger and are resolved after you have finished resolving Sycophant.

AJD:

--- Quote from: Jeebus on January 27, 2023, 09:50:17 am ---I meant, the fact that they have the same timing shows that it's something that triggers after you played and completely finished resolving the played card, so it's not something that would be seen as "gotten from playing the card".
--- End quote ---

I'm not quite sure what the "it" in this sentence refers to. If you get +$1 from Harbor Village, it's "gotten from playing" Harbor Village, not from playing the Action card after Harbor Village (even though you don't get it till after playing that next Action). Similarly, Merchant, not Silver, gives you +$1 after you play a Silver.


--- Quote ---Example with Inspiring on Sycophant:

Play Harbor Village (+1 Card, +2 Actions)
Play Sycophant (+1 Action, don't discard)
..Harbor Village, Royal Carriage, League of Shopkeepers and Inspiring all trigger.
....Resolve Royal Carriage (replay Sycophant, this time discard and get +$3)
....Resolve League of Shopkeepers (get +$1)
....Resolve Inspiring (play Guildmaster and get +$3)
....Resolve Harbor Village (You didn't get +$ from playing Sycophant the first time)

Why would Inspiring be different from Royal Carriage and League of Shopkeepers here? They all trigger and are resolved after you have finished resolving Sycophant.

--- End quote ---

I don't see how this example is relevant? Inspiring isn't different from Royal Carriage and League of Shopkeepers here. None of them cause (the first play of) Sycophant to give you +$ and activate Harbor Village. But the question is about Inspiring Harbor Village, not Inspiring Sycophant. And it is possible for Inspiring on Harbor Village to cause the Harbor Village to give you +$, precisely because Inspiring causes you to play another Action and Harbor Village's +$ cares about whether you play another Action. Sycophant's +$ does not depend on whether you play another Action after it or not, so in your example above, Inspiring has no bearing on whether Sycophant gives you +$ (and therefore on whether the preceding Harbor Village gives you +$).

Jeebus:
("It" referred to Inspiring.)

Yes, I see now. I misunderstood the clarification. I thought it meant that the card after Harbor Village (whether it was a second Harbor Village or any other card) would give you +$ if Inspiring caused you to play a card that gave you +$. I didn't catch the chain reaction effect.

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