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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer  (Read 7378 times)

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Gubump

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Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« on: January 24, 2023, 06:54:47 pm »
+6

My prompt this time around is simple on the surface, but designing an interesting card that fits it may not be; my prompt is to...

Design a card with an "in games using this" effect.

Currently, I believe Duchess (which is 1e only), Charlatan, and Shaman are the only official cards that would qualify. It is fine for a landscape to have an "in games using this" effect, but that shouldn't be all it does (so no cheesing your way into qualifying by wording Landmarks or Edicts using the required phrase!)

I will be judging based on creativity, balance, if it looks fun to play with, how big an impact the "in games using this" effect has, and how well the top and bottom tie together, in no particular order.

Without any further ado, create away and have fun!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2023, 08:17:40 pm »
+3



A junking Chapel, if you've got all three Estates or some Silver to spare. Be warned, as the souls of the dead may come back to haunt you...

Costs less than $7 to minimize the Forge problem of being too expensive for a Chapel variant and more than $5 to avoid getting turn 1 without something like Desperation or Cursed Gold.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2023, 10:56:10 pm »
+2


Spotless Village only keeps its reputation through diligent work and no waste. It makes sure nothing (except Victory) gets left behind in your hand. They don't take "no" for an answer, so beware of colliding terminals.
If you only have pretty cards (+), they reward you with +2 Cards for preserving their image.

Edits: Accountability and specificity, per Gubump's suggestions
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 02:55:24 pm by czzzz »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2023, 11:22:23 pm »
+2


Spotless Village only keeps its reputation through diligent work and no waste. It makes sure nothing (except Victory) gets left behind in your hand. They don't take "no" for an answer, so beware of colliding terminals.
If you only have pretty cards (+), they reward you with +2 Cards for preserving their image.

The bottom needs to say to reveal your hand in order to work, since it doesn't have any accountability otherwise. It should also probably specify "at the start of Clean-up," since just "at Clean-up" isn't very specific.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 11:38:48 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2023, 12:16:03 am »
+1

Currently, I believe Duchess (which is 1e only), Charlatan, and Shaman are the only official cards that would qualify.

There's also Changeling.

Quote
Trash this. Gain a copy of a card you have in play.
-
In games using this, when you gain a card costing $3 or more, you may exchange it for a Changeling.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2023, 12:39:39 am »
+1

Currently, I believe Duchess (which is 1e only), Charlatan, and Shaman are the only official cards that would qualify.

There's also Changeling.

Quote
Trash this. Gain a copy of a card you have in play.
-
In games using this, when you gain a card costing $3 or more, you may exchange it for a Changeling.

Knew I was probably forgetting something. I realized partway through typing up the OP that I had forgotten about Shaman (my excuse is that it's on my banlist, so I never see it come up).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2023, 01:40:41 am »
+5



Quote
Mystic Workshop - $4
Action

Gain a card costing up to $4. If it costs less than this, gain a copy of that card; otherwise gain a Copper to your hand.
-
In games using this, the first time you discard a card from play during each of your turns, return it to its pile.

Wizards are unusual people.  They can perform grand feats of magic, but they still appreciate the small things that others would ignore.  They are wise beyond their years, and yet they constantly manage to misplace their belongings.

Mystic Workshop is the opposite of Shaman.  Shaman’s on-play lets you trash cards, but a card comes back every turn.  Mystic Workshop’s on-play lets you gain cards, but a card leaves your deck every turn.

It’s like a Cathedral that you automatically start the game with.  Cathedral is powerful, but it has two strong anti-synergies: games without extra gains/Buys, and handsize Attacks.  Games using Mystic Workshop will always have extra gains, and the card is removed at the end of the turn instead of the beginning, making handsize Attacks less painful.  Keep in mind that Mystic Workshop cannot remove your Estates or Curses, so other trashers can still be useful.

For wording, I copied Duplicate and Citadel. I chose to return cards to piles instead of trashing them to help prevent pile-outs.  That also provides unusual interactions with things that don’t have piles.  You can choose to discard Necropolis, a Prize or an Heirloom first to get around Mystic Workshop’s effect.  It can also be avoided by using cards that move other cards or themselves when they are discarded from play, such as Herbalist.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2023, 03:11:47 am »
+1

I changed my mind which one to enter, here's my real entry:
Quote
Loanshark
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards
+$1.
Each other player with less than 2 debt tokens takes 1 debt.
-
In games using this, at the start of your turn, you may discard a Treasure to gain a Silver.
The thing preventing debt attacks from working is the possibility of someone getting shut out of the game unable to buy anything, so this has the "In games using this" to prevent that.

Withdrawn entry:
Quote
Unicorn
$4 - Action - Liason
+2 Cards.
Discard any number of cards. +1 Favor for each card you discard this way.
-
In games using this, use Horse Trainers in addition to another Ally.
Kind of a Vault variant. Should be fine at $4 since favors are valued less than coin according to Underling.

Quote
Horse Trainers
Ally
At the start of clean-up, you may spend 2 Favors to gain a Horse, or 3 Favors to gain 2 Horses.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 03:19:42 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2023, 04:17:55 am »
+1

Quote
Landslide - Action Attack, $5 cost.
Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse onto their Tavern mat.
-
In games using this, after a player shuffles, they put a Curse from their Tavern mat onto their deck.
I did have a variant where the Curse entered the shuffle and an Action was taken out of it, but the same Action would keep getting taken out and that wasn't very interesting.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2023, 04:48:23 am »
+2



"Why the Curse thing", you probably don't ask, but maybe, "isn't it good to trash Coppers? Why would anyone do this?"

Hypothetically, we could get into a game state where people run out of good cards, and then it degenerates into buying a silver and trashing one each turn or whatever. The Curse option prevents that. In the worst case, the penalty disappears once Curses are out.

The more normal effect is of course to boost all decks massively since you get rid of Coppers for free.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2023, 10:17:10 am »
+9



Contessa is my replacement for Duchess, a cheap $2 cost that cares about Duchies but is actually fun. It turns Duchies into Moats and lets you play any number of them as Labs if you can line them up. Obviously it's a cantrip that doesn't do anything if you don't have any Duchies in hand, and $5 is a lot to pay for all your Moats, but hey they're worth points too.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2023, 01:18:41 pm »
+6

Let's try this:



Edit: Lmao Village Green.

Edit 2: Update the card.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 06:24:56 pm by X-tra »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2023, 01:39:22 pm »
+3


Spirit market: a black market for trashed cards. Maybe should cost 4 or 5 idk. Also has silly interactions w zombie, rogue, etc.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 08:08:05 pm by LordBaphomet »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2023, 03:00:20 pm »
+2

Quote
Landslide - Action Attack, $5 cost.
Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse onto their Tavern mat.
-
In games using this, after a player shuffles, they put a Curse from their Tavern mat onto their deck.
I did have a variant where the Curse entered the shuffle and an Action was taken out of it, but the same Action would keep getting taken out and that wasn't very interesting.
I feel like this is missing out on some interesting interactions by using the Tavern mat instead of Exile.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2023, 03:02:33 pm »
0



Quote
Daring Hero - $4
Action

Choose one: +2 cards; or discard 2 cards.
You may reveal a hand without Treasures to gain a Treasure.
-
In games using this, instead of paying a card's cost, you may trash a Treasure costing at least as much from you hand
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2023, 03:45:28 pm »
0



Quote
Daring Hero - $4
Action

Choose one: +2 cards; or discard 2 cards.
You may reveal a hand without Treasures to gain a Treasure.
-
In games using this, instead of paying a card's cost, you may trash a Treasure costing at least as much from you hand

Does this excessively weaken discard-down-to-3 Attacks (and discard attacks more generally)? With Daring Hero and 2 other cards in hand, you are guaranteed to be able to gain any Treasure in the Supply (at least a Gold, if not Platinum or something else). Early in the game, this can turn getting hit with a Militia from something that will significantly limit what you can gain to something that will significantly improve it.
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sumrex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2023, 04:28:26 pm »
+1

Archangel Hades
Action- Doom- Fate
5$
Choose one: Recieve the next hex;  take a Boon until the start of your next turnouEach other Player recieves it at the start of their next turn.
Choose one: Gain a gold onto your deck and +2$; gain 2 silvers to your hand; gain 5 coppers to your hand and +1 buy.

_______________
In games using this, no player can buy gold.

Pretty extreme, but if you think about it you will see there is no real pressure, even on the copper pile. Ignorable with strong action payload, but well thats not always there. Probably pretty nice with BM, but thats ok.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 04:40:07 am by sumrex »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2023, 04:56:02 pm »
+1



Quote
Daring Hero - $4
Action

Choose one: +2 cards; or discard 2 cards.
You may reveal a hand without Treasures to gain a Treasure.
-
In games using this, instead of paying a card's cost, you may trash a Treasure costing at least as much from you hand

Does this excessively weaken discard-down-to-3 Attacks (and discard attacks more generally)? With Daring Hero and 2 other cards in hand, you are guaranteed to be able to gain any Treasure in the Supply (at least a Gold, if not Platinum or something else). Early in the game, this can turn getting hit with a Militia from something that will significantly limit what you can gain to something that will significantly improve it.
I don't really think so. Spending a turn gaining nothing but a Gold isn't exactly powerful. Draw-to-X cards exist and weaken discard attacks more than this does.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2023, 05:40:06 pm »
+1

Let's try this:



Edit: Lmao Village Green.
I don’t get why this is priced at $3. Duration draw without the missing shuffles downsides of durations is similar in strength to immediate draw, i.e. this is stronger than Caravan and either a $4.5 or a $5.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 06:02:33 pm »
+1

I don’t get why this is priced at $3. Duration draw without the missing shuffles downsides of durations is similar in strength to immediate draw, i.e. this is stronger than Caravan and either a $4.5 or a $5.

I appreciate the analysis, but I do not think that it is a fair comparison, given that Caravan is stronger than Caravan when Boatswain is in the Supply. Strong Caravan appears to me stronger than Boatswain as-is, and Boatswain wants to be appealing enough to be bought over other buffed up Durations (which have a bargaining price for what they now offer).

However, I do have an idea to reshape the card without losing the core idea. I'll edit it soon, but the bottom will now read: "In games using this, at the start of your turns, you may discard a card you have in play that no longer has any effects."
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2023, 06:12:03 pm »
0

Archangel Hades
Action- Doom- Fate
5$
Choose one: Recieve the next hex, each other play recieves the next boon at the start of their next turn.
Choose one: Gain a gold onto your deck and +2$, gain 2 silvers to your hand, gain 5 coppers to your hand and +1 buy.

_______________
In games using this, no player can buy gold.

Pretty extreme, but if you think about it you will see there is no real pressure, even on the copper pile. Ignorable with strong action payload, but well thats not always there. Probably pretty nice with BM, but thats ok.

1. Official cards separate choices with semicolons ( ; ), not commas. That's because using semicolons makes it easier to parse where one choice ends and another begins.
2. The Boon choice has tracking issues, since the card doesn't stay in play (since it's not a Duration card) and it doesn't make the next Boon stay out to remind people to receive it nor what it is. Also, as worded, it sounds like each other player would be receiving the same Boon, which has even more tracking issues since it would get discarded upon the first player to the left of the AH player receiving it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 06:13:53 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2023, 06:13:40 pm »
+1

Let's try this:



Edit: Lmao Village Green.

If I have a non-Duration Action card set aside by Summon or Prepare, would I play it and then discard it, since it was played during the "start of turn" phase and is a card with no remaining effects?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2023, 06:26:07 pm »
+2

I just edited Boatswain to reflect the changes I mused about a little above this post.


If I have a non-Duration Action card set aside by Summon or Prepare, would I play it and then discard it, since it was played during the "start of turn" phase and is a card with no remaining effects?

Yes Sir you could.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2023, 08:01:38 pm »
0


Spirit market: a black market for trashed cards. Maybe should cost 4 or 5 idk. Also has silly interactions w zombie, rogue, etc.

I would suggest using the wording "cards in the trash cost less." As worded, cards you buy from the trash technically stay cost reduced, since they were trashed at some point, which leads to tracking issues. Another problem with the current wording is that it makes it sound like only cards trashed specifically by Spirit Market's effect get cost reduced, which also has tracking issues.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2023, 08:08:25 pm »
0


Spirit market: a black market for trashed cards. Maybe should cost 4 or 5 idk. Also has silly interactions w zombie, rogue, etc.

I would suggest using the wording "cards in the trash cost less." As worded, cards you buy from the trash technically stay cost reduced, since they were trashed at some point, which leads to tracking issues. Another problem with the current wording is that it makes it sound like only cards trashed specifically by Spirit Market's effect get cost reduced, which also has tracking issues.
Edited as per your suggestion
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2023, 10:35:16 pm »
+3

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action,
+1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action
(you can't go below 0).

In games using this, when you
shuffle, pick one of the cards to
trash.

Edit: Updated to specify that you can't go below 0 Actions (as Poor House and Souk do with their -$), as suggested by Gubump.



Old Version:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 01:55:08 pm by emtzalex »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2023, 11:09:07 pm »
0

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.

What happens if I don't have any unused Actions when I get the -1 Action?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2023, 11:45:58 pm »
+2

Factory
- Treasure
+ and +1 Buy
You may trash a Treasure from your hand or may gain a Treasure from the trash onto your deck.
____
In games using this, at the start of your turn you may trash a Gold from your hand for +3 Cards.

Notes: Clearly inspired by Treasurer. But also inspired by Encampment. It's fun when Gold is a useful engine component, and I really enjoy repeatedly trashing Golds only to get them back with Treasurer.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2023, 12:04:05 am »
0

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.

What happens if I don't have any unused Actions when I get the -1 Action?

As with the coin reduction in Poor House and Souk, it can't go down below zero.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2023, 12:26:21 am »
+1

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.

What happens if I don't have any unused Actions when I get the -1 Action?

As with the coin reduction in Poor House and Souk, it can't go down below zero.

In that case, you might want to state that on the card like the aforementioned Poor House and Souk do.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2023, 02:16:24 am »
0

I don’t get why this is priced at $3. Duration draw without the missing shuffles downsides of durations is similar in strength to immediate draw, i.e. this is stronger than Caravan and either a $4.5 or a $5.

I appreciate the analysis, but I do not think that it is a fair comparison, given that Caravan is stronger than Caravan when Boatswain is in the Supply. Strong Caravan appears to me stronger than Boatswain as-is, and Boatswain wants to be appealing enough to be bought over other buffed up Durations (which have a bargaining price for what they now offer).

However, I do have an idea to reshape the card without losing the core idea. I'll edit it soon, but the bottom will now read: "In games using this, at the start of your turns, you may discard a card you have in play that no longer has any effects."
Sure, you have to reflect that this buffs other Durations. But delayed draw is not that much worse than immediate draw (there are folks who would argue that it is better, which I agree only with in the case of terminal draw) and the card also has to work well in Kingdoms with few or no other Durations.

So yeah, without Caravan in the Kingdom this is a $4.5 and with Caravan it is so close in strength to Caravan that $3 makes it underpriced.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2023, 03:20:23 am »
+3

My submission:



Idk which wording to use, so I just submitted both. Same effect; draw a card for each card you trash.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2023, 04:41:22 am »
0

Archangel Hades
Action- Doom- Fate
5$
Choose one: Recieve the next hex, each other play recieves the next boon at the start of their next turn.
Choose one: Gain a gold onto your deck and +2$, gain 2 silvers to your hand, gain 5 coppers to your hand and +1 buy.

_______________
In games using this, no player can buy gold.

Pretty extreme, but if you think about it you will see there is no real pressure, even on the copper pile. Ignorable with strong action payload, but well thats not always there. Probably pretty nice with BM, but thats ok.

1. Official cards separate choices with semicolons ( ; ), not commas. That's because using semicolons makes it easier to parse where one choice ends and another begins.
2. The Boon choice has tracking issues, since the card doesn't stay in play (since it's not a Duration card) and it doesn't make the next Boon stay out to remind people to receive it nor what it is. Also, as worded, it sounds like each other player would be receiving the same Boon, which has even more tracking issues since it would get discarded upon the first player to the left of the AH player receiving it.

Thanks, I reworded it and stole the wording from blessed village, so now it shouldn't be a problem any longer.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2023, 05:34:14 am »
0

My submission:



Idk which wording to use, so I just submitted both. Same effect; draw a card for each card you trash.
Both wordings are ok, but the effect is not the same: With the first version, you do trash one card, draw one card, then trash the next card (trashing, unlike discarding, is one at a time). So with version 1, you could choose a card that you drew from trashing the first card as your second trashing target, but with version 2 arguably not.

Also, Landfill is strictly worse than Chapel when they're in the same kingdom, that may be an issue. If there is any other decent trashing, you'll probably never get Landfill, it's just too expensive.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2023, 05:38:18 am »
0

Let's try this:



Edit: Lmao Village Green.

Edit 2: Update the card.
What does it mean to have an effect? In a game with Tormentor, can I discard a Boatswain at the start of my turn?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2023, 05:41:28 am »
+3



Basically a touch of alt-VP enabler: those Estates and Duchies might become more worthwile. Might. Perhaps.
It could be too strong.
I first considerd "In games using this, Victory cards are worth an extra VP." but the current version seems more fun as it opens up gain and trash interactions (Shaman, Ambassador, Workshop Estates and then trash them).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2023, 11:15:35 am »
+1

My submission:



Idk which wording to use, so I just submitted both. Same effect; draw a card for each card you trash.
Both wordings are ok, but the effect is not the same: With the first version, you do trash one card, draw one card, then trash the next card (trashing, unlike discarding, is one at a time). So with version 1, you could choose a card that you drew from trashing the first card as your second trashing target, but with version 2 arguably not.

If you were right, Chapel would be able to trash cards drawn by trashing a Cultist, which it can't. Trashing isn't one at a time either, actually.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2023, 11:18:28 am »
+1

Sure, you have to reflect that this buffs other Durations. But delayed draw is not that much worse than immediate draw (there are folks who would argue that it is better, which I agree only with in the case of terminal draw) and the card also has to work well in Kingdoms with few or no other Durations.

So yeah, without Caravan in the Kingdom this is a $4.5 and with Caravan it is so close in strength to Caravan that $3 makes it underpriced.

I have made a second version of Boatswain where only one Duration card can get swept away now. This should check the power level of the card itself in check, and you'll probably like to use this power onto a more potent card (such as Wharf), should they be in the Supply. Until then, a single Boatswain at should keep you going until you find better stuff to discard from play.

What does it mean to have an effect? In a game with Tormentor, can I discard a Boatswain at the start of my turn?

I'm sorry, I do not quite understand the Tormentor question. A card that no longer has an effect is a card that is done doing anything, a card you'd discard from play this turn. It shouldn't be ambiguous in theory, otherwise, people wouldn't know which turn to discard their Duration cards as normal.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2023, 11:36:45 am »
0


With so many good ideas already, hopefully this is competitive enough. I though about modifying Duchy an idea i have employed on more than one Project, but it seams less wordy to just make another card instead.

Quote
City Builder
$5 Action
+2 Actions; You may discard a Victory card for +2 Cards.
City Wall costs $1 less with this in play, but not less than $2.
-----------
In games using this, include City Wall in the Kingdom.


Quote
City Wall
$5 Action - Victory
+1 Card, +1 Action
------------
2 Victory


update 20230126:
* Added "City Wall costs $1 less with this in play." to make City Builder a more compelling card.
* Added ", but not less than $2." to City Builder to provide a price floor.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 03:10:07 pm by BryGuy »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2023, 11:46:50 am »
+1

My submission:



Idk which wording to use, so I just submitted both. Same effect; draw a card for each card you trash.
Both wordings are ok, but the effect is not the same: With the first version, you do trash one card, draw one card, then trash the next card (trashing, unlike discarding, is one at a time). So with version 1, you could choose a card that you drew from trashing the first card as your second trashing target, but with version 2 arguably not.

If you were right, Chapel would be able to trash cards drawn by trashing a Cultist, which it can't. Trashing isn't one at a time either, actually.
Yeah, you're partially right in that all cards need to be selected first.

Trashing is however still technically one at a time, in the sense that if you choose to trash Catacombs and and 2 other cards, you can trash Catacombs first, gain a Priest, play it with Innovation, and get +$2 from the other cards you are trashing ... But that's admittedly more of a fringe case.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2023, 12:08:53 pm »
+2

What does it mean to have an effect? In a game with Tormentor, can I discard a Boatswain at the start of my turn?

I'm sorry, I do not quite understand the Tormentor question. A card that no longer has an effect is a card that is done doing anything, a card you'd discard from play this turn. It shouldn't be ambiguous in theory, otherwise, people wouldn't know which turn to discard their Duration cards as normal.

I think your current wording is understandable, but it would be nice to do it without adding new terminology.  The last part of your reply about knowing when to discard cards normally gave me an idea.  Maybe it can copy wording from Improve:

Quote
In games using this, at the start of your turn, you may discard a card from play that you would discard in Clean-up this turn.

Also, I removed the “s” from “at the start of your turn(s),” because that’s the way it is phrased in Shaman.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2023, 01:11:04 pm »
+1

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.

I like this submission.  :)
I would suggest a below line revision to "In games using this, before you shuffle, trash one card from the discard pile." That way it is obvious instead of inferred from where a card is trashed.  :)

« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 01:37:44 pm by BryGuy »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2023, 01:37:06 pm »
+1


Spirit market: a black market for trashed cards. Maybe should cost 4 or 5 idk. Also has silly interactions w zombie, rogue, etc.

I like this submission.  :)
Seams like both the above line text and below line text would indicate this should cost at least $4. This may be a powerful $4 or a weak $5. Maybe adding a little something like "+1 Buy" to justify a price of $5?  :)

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2023, 01:59:49 pm »
0

My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.

What happens if I don't have any unused Actions when I get the -1 Action?

As with the coin reduction in Poor House and Souk, it can't go down below zero.

In that case, you might want to state that on the card like the aforementioned Poor House and Souk do.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've updated it to reflect that.


My Submission:



Quote
Way of the Sword • $5 • Action
+4 Cards
Discard a card. If it's an Action, +1 Action, otherwise, -1 Action.


In games using this, when you shuffle, pick one of the cards to trash.
I like this submission.  :)
I would suggest a below line revision to "In games using this, before you shuffle, trash one card from the discard pile." That way it is obvious instead of inferred from where a card is trashed.  :)

Thanks! I adopted the language from Star Chart, which is the closest official equivalent. When language like that is available, I prefer to use it.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2023, 04:03:47 pm »
0

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2023, 04:24:05 pm »
+1

Expel
Event
$4

Exile 2 cards from your hand.
___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this, when scoring +2VP per differently named card you have in Exile
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2023, 11:16:16 pm »
+2

Evangelist - $4
Action - Liaison

+1 action
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face down, +2 favour. If it's face up +2 cards and you may trash a card from your hand.

___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this there is an additional ally. The normal ally applies to you only when your journey token is face up, the additional ally only when it's face down.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 02:32:40 pm by Kingreaper »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2023, 12:39:25 am »
+3

Pilgrim - $4
Action - Liaison

+1 action
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face down, +2 favour. If it's face up +2 cards and you may trash a card from your hand.

___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this there is an additional ally. The normal ally applies to you only when your journey token is face up, the additional ally only when it's face down.

1. I assume with this that Plateau Shepherds gives you if and only if your Journey token is face up at the end of the game?
2. Pilgrim is already the name of an existing card.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2023, 05:32:18 am »
+4

A back-to-front Remodel. Timing is a bit more flexible but it can't green at the end. At least it's easy to keep out of your deck when you've finished with it!

As a bonus, Estates can be turned into $5s. And $9 Provinces should slow the game down a bit.



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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2023, 06:09:58 am »
0

^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2023, 06:29:25 am »
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^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.
Transmogrify is an Upgrade variant, not a Remodel variant.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2023, 06:31:58 am »
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^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.
Ooh, good point! I liked the idea of deciding what you want to get before figuring out how to get it, which Transmogrify doesn't do. Also making it a Duration rather than a Reserve makes it Throne Roomable, which Transmogrify isn't. But I agree that they are pretty similar, possibly too similar.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 06:34:17 am by Udzu »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2023, 06:33:55 am »
0

^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.
Transmogrify is an Upgrade variant, not a Remodel variant.
It's sort of in between: it's $1 not $2 but it's "up to $1" not "exactly $1".
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2023, 06:47:57 am »
+2

Bookkeeper
Action - $4
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand
___________
In games using this, don't discard Actions and Treasures from your hand during Clean-Up (reveal your hand before you discard).

Rules clarification: You still draw 5 cards for your new hand in Clean-Up. Basically if you don't play an Action or Treasure, you get to "Save" it to your next hand for free. This is not optional.

Note: The new wording for Patron only gives you Coffers during an Action phase.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 06:55:21 am by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2023, 08:01:29 am »
0

^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.
Transmogrify is an Upgrade variant, not a Remodel variant.
It's sort of in between: it's $1 not $2 but it's "up to $1" not "exactly $1".
Sure, there are tricks that Transmogrify can do like milling Provinces which Upgrade can not do.

My point was that Transmogrify is most similar to Upgrade (cantrip, with the „draw“ being delayed) whereas your card has nothing to do with Transmogrify (except for being delayed) and more with Remodel (terminal, Coin delta of $2).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 08:02:47 am by segura »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2023, 08:52:29 am »
+1

"Up to" makes a big difference when comparing Transmogrify to Upgrade. Upgrade can get rid of Coppers whereas Transmogrify may not. That is a fundamentally big difference between the two cards that pooling them in the same category is dubious at best.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2023, 09:07:35 am »
+2



I don’t think “at least $X less than it” is ever used to refer to card costs, so it’s difficult to tell for sure, but I think “at least” might be used incorrectly here.  The closest comparison I could find is Wine Merchant, which says “if you have at least $2 unspent.”  It works with $2 unspent or $3 unspent, or $7 unspent; any number greater than or equal to 2.

But that makes me think that for Pre-Order you could trash a card costing $2 less than it, or $3, less than it, or $7 less than it (e.g. a Copper for a King’s Court), and that’s not what we want.  So maybe it needs to be “costing at most $2 less than it” or “costing up to $2 less than it,” but with things reversed the way they are, it’s tricky to tell for sure.


Edit:  I just thought of the reference card: the removed Saboteur, which uses “a card costing at most $2 less than it.”

Edit2:  But Saboteur wants to gain cards costing less than or equal to the specified amount, while Pre-Order wants to trash a card costing greater than or equal to the specified amount.  So we definitely don’t want to use “at most.”  While “at least” isn’t used this way on any official cards, it should be what we want here.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 01:24:06 pm by SignError »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2023, 09:14:49 am »
+1

^ This seems like a super cool idea, but also very similar to Transmogrify.
Transmogrify is an Upgrade variant, not a Remodel variant.
It's sort of in between: it's $1 not $2 but it's "up to $1" not "exactly $1".

I mean, I think this is mostly noise from a design perspective. The idea of transmogrify is to let you choose what to trash on a later turn (and then use it right away). Whether it's up to 1$ or up to 2$ or exactly 1$, that stuff impacts power level a lot, but in design space it's just a nudge.

I think the much more relevant objection is what you said initially, you have to choose what card you want ahead of time, so it's not that similar.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2023, 10:52:56 am »
0

"Up to" makes a big difference when comparing Transmogrify to Upgrade. Upgrade can get rid of Coppers whereas Transmogrify may not. That is a fundamentally big difference between the two cards that pooling them in the same category is dubious at best.
So you think that Transmogrify is more of a Remodel than an Upgrade variant?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2023, 01:26:43 pm »
0

Pilgrim - $4
Action - Liaison

+1 action
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face down, +2 favour. If it's face up +2 cards and you may trash a card from your hand.

___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this there is an additional ally. The normal ally applies to you only when your journey token is face up, the additional ally only when it's face down.

1. I assume with this that Plateau Shepherds gives you if and only if your Journey token is face up at the end of the game?
2. Pilgrim is already the name of an existing card.
1 is correct, assuming that Plateau Shepherds was the first Ally (if the second, then it only counts if your journey token is face down). 2 is dang annoying, I've played with the Pilgrim several times and just forgot about it. Will have a think on a new name.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 02:34:26 pm by Kingreaper »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2023, 02:59:23 pm »
+9



Forsaken City
Action ($3)

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
---
In games using this, when you discard an Action other than in Clean-up, if you don't have a copy of it in play, you may play it.

FAQ: When discarding multiple cards at once (such as with FC itself), you may choose the order they get played in (provided all discarded cards are not yet in play of course).
Discarding multiple of the same Action will only let you play 1, as the first is already in play by the time you would resolve the second one.

The top looks really bad for $3, but that's when the bottom sticks out to you. It essentially gives Weaver's/Village Green's reaction to anything you don't have in play. If you're able to discard 2 Actions you haven't played yet, this can act as a Lost City! But you'll quickly run out of differently named cards to play, and you always have to discard 2 cards. If anyone has a different wording to get the same idea across, that would be greatly appreciated (since I know the current one is a little long).

EDIT: Slight rewording to clarify that you cannot play multiple of the same Action if they are discarded at the same time.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2023, 01:22:02 pm by AJL828 »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2023, 04:39:27 pm »
0


With so many good ideas already, hopefully this is competitive enough. I though about modifying Duchy an idea i have employed on more than one Project, but it seams less wordy to just make another card instead.

Quote
City Builder
$5 Action
+2 Actions; You may discard a Victory card for +2 Cards.
City Wall costs $1 less with this in play, but not less than $2.
-----------
In games using this, include City Wall in the Kingdom.


Quote
City Wall
$5 Action - Victory
+1 Card, +1 Action
------------
2 Victory


update 20230126:
* Added "City Wall costs $1 less with this in play." to make City Builder a more compelling card.
* Added ", but not less than $2." to City Builder to provide a price floor.


Is City Wall also a Kingdom card that could appear in a game without City Builder accompanying it, or can it only be in the game if CB is?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2023, 04:49:09 pm »
0


With so many good ideas already, hopefully this is competitive enough. I though about modifying Duchy an idea i have employed on more than one Project, but it seams less wordy to just make another card instead.

Quote
City Builder
$5 Action
+2 Actions; You may discard a Victory card for +2 Cards.
City Wall costs $1 less with this in play, but not less than $2.
-----------
In games using this, include City Wall in the Kingdom.


Quote
City Wall
$5 Action - Victory
+1 Card, +1 Action
------------
2 Victory


update 20230126:
* Added "City Wall costs $1 less with this in play." to make City Builder a more compelling card.
* Added ", but not less than $2." to City Builder to provide a price floor.


Is City Wall also a Kingdom card that could appear in a game without City Builder accompanying it, or can it only be in the game if CB is?

It looks like i did make City Wall generic enough that it could be in any set of ten Kingdom cards, but designed it specifically to be a modified Duchy so as to reduce words on City Builder. City Builder would add City Wall as an 11th Kingdom card.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2023, 04:51:17 pm »
0


With so many good ideas already, hopefully this is competitive enough. I though about modifying Duchy an idea i have employed on more than one Project, but it seams less wordy to just make another card instead.

Quote
City Builder
$5 Action
+2 Actions; You may discard a Victory card for +2 Cards.
City Wall costs $1 less with this in play, but not less than $2.
-----------
In games using this, include City Wall in the Kingdom.


Quote
City Wall
$5 Action - Victory
+1 Card, +1 Action
------------
2 Victory


update 20230126:
* Added "City Wall costs $1 less with this in play." to make City Builder a more compelling card.
* Added ", but not less than $2." to City Builder to provide a price floor.


Is City Wall also a Kingdom card that could appear in a game without City Builder accompanying it, or can it only be in the game if CB is?

It looks like i did make City Wall generic enough that it could be in any set of ten Kingdom cards, but designed it specifically to be a modified Duchy so as to reduce words on City Builder. City Builder would add City Wall as an 11th Kingdom card.


Well, I realize it would be an 11th Kingdom card, but I'll take that as a no, you cannot have City Wall in the Kingdom without City Builder.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2023, 04:54:06 pm »
+2



Forsaken City
Action ($3)

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
---
In games using this, when you discard an Action you don't have a copy of in play other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

FAQ: When discarding multiple cards at once (such as with FC itself), you may choose the order they get played in (provided all discarded cards are not yet in play of course).

The top looks really bad for $3, but that's when the bottom sticks out to you. It essentially gives Weaver's/Village Green's reaction to anything you don't have in play. If you're able to discard 2 Actions you haven't played yet, this can act as a Lost City! But you'll quickly run out of differently named cards to play, and you always have to discard 2 cards. If anyone has a different wording to get the same idea across, that would be greatly appreciated (since I know the current one is a little long).

Is it intentional that if you discard 2 of the same Action you don't have copies of in play, you can play both of them, since you had no copies in play when they were discarded?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2023, 06:19:44 pm »
0



Forsaken City
Action ($3)

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
---
In games using this, when you discard an Action you don't have a copy of in play other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

FAQ: When discarding multiple cards at once (such as with FC itself), you may choose the order they get played in (provided all discarded cards are not yet in play of course).

The top looks really bad for $3, but that's when the bottom sticks out to you. It essentially gives Weaver's/Village Green's reaction to anything you don't have in play. If you're able to discard 2 Actions you haven't played yet, this can act as a Lost City! But you'll quickly run out of differently named cards to play, and you always have to discard 2 cards. If anyone has a different wording to get the same idea across, that would be greatly appreciated (since I know the current one is a little long).

Is it intentional that if you discard 2 of the same Action you don't have copies of in play, you can play both of them, since you had no copies in play when they were discarded?
No, I had intended for them to be resolved separately, 1 at a time (which would prevent doubling up on the same action). I’m not sure how to reword it to reflect that though.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2023, 06:33:00 pm »
+3



Forsaken City
Action ($3)

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
---
In games using this, when you discard an Action you don't have a copy of in play other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

FAQ: When discarding multiple cards at once (such as with FC itself), you may choose the order they get played in (provided all discarded cards are not yet in play of course).

The top looks really bad for $3, but that's when the bottom sticks out to you. It essentially gives Weaver's/Village Green's reaction to anything you don't have in play. If you're able to discard 2 Actions you haven't played yet, this can act as a Lost City! But you'll quickly run out of differently named cards to play, and you always have to discard 2 cards. If anyone has a different wording to get the same idea across, that would be greatly appreciated (since I know the current one is a little long).

Is it intentional that if you discard 2 of the same Action you don't have copies of in play, you can play both of them, since you had no copies in play when they were discarded?
No, I had intended for them to be resolved separately, 1 at a time (which would prevent doubling up on the same action). I’m not sure how to reword it to reflect that though.

Even though it sounds like it means the same thing, I believe that "In games using this, when you discard an Action, if you don't have a copy of it in play, you may play it" would check the condition when you'd potentially play the cards rather than when you discard them.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2023, 09:54:56 pm »
+3



Forsaken City
Action ($3)

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards.
---
In games using this, when you discard an Action you don't have a copy of in play other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

... If anyone has a different wording to get the same idea across, that would be greatly appreciated (since I know the current one is a little long).
Is it intentional that if you discard 2 of the same Action you don't have copies of in play, you can play both of them, since you had no copies in play when they were discarded?
No, I had intended for them to be resolved separately, 1 at a time (which would prevent doubling up on the same action). I’m not sure how to reword it to reflect that though.
Even though it sounds like it means the same thing, I believe that "In games using this, when you discard an Action, if you don't have a copy of it in play, you may play it" would check the condition when you'd potentially play the cards rather than when you discard them.

Don't forget the "... when you discard an Action, other than in Clean-up, ..."

You definitely still need that to avoid issues.  Add that, and I think the rewording is much better.  No need to reveal, just like with Trail.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Change
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2023, 03:00:27 am »
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I haven't tested this and it might be very unfun, and even if it works with 2 players, I think it scales very poorly for multiplayer.
Basically the idea is that you can hand out unlimited curses, but they might come back to hurt you.
It's called Loyal Witch because it helps its king (the player) not just cursing the others, but also removing his curses as well.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2023, 03:02:53 am by d4mn13l »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2023, 09:25:44 am »
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While the potential for unlimited discarding is limited, you don’t want a Militia that can bring you down to zero.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2023, 02:16:41 pm »
0

The whole point is that you can't spam it but make sure that that doesn't happen. As I said, I didn't test this, so it could either be really interesting or really bad.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2023, 02:58:18 pm »
+1

The whole point is that you can't spam it but make sure that that doesn't happen. As I said, I didn't test this, so it could either be really interesting or really bad.
I don't think that you got my point: while the limit for hard discarding is mitigated by the fact that everybody is affected and that there are only so many Curses that are ordinarly trashed, you never ever want an unlimited discard attack in Dominion lest somebody gets pinned down.

I mean, you can easily imagine a draw engine with sufficient draw and Buys, 2 Loyal Witches or Chapel and the eternal pin happens: Buy 4-5 Curses and useful things, draw your stuff, trash the Curses. Boom, your turn again. Rinse and repeat.

So it is not even that theoretical ... but even if it were theoretical, don't open up even the faintest possibility for pins!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2023, 04:43:24 pm »
+2



I have play-tested this a little and it doesn´t slow games down as much as one might think.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2023, 05:56:44 pm »
0

The whole point is that you can't spam it but make sure that that doesn't happen. As I said, I didn't test this, so it could either be really interesting or really bad.
I don't think that you got my point: while the limit for hard discarding is mitigated by the fact that everybody is affected and that there are only so many Curses that are ordinarly trashed, you never ever want an unlimited discard attack in Dominion lest somebody gets pinned down.

I mean, you can easily imagine a draw engine with sufficient draw and Buys, 2 Loyal Witches or Chapel and the eternal pin happens: Buy 4-5 Curses and useful things, draw your stuff, trash the Curses. Boom, your turn again. Rinse and repeat.

So it is not even that theoretical ... but even if it were theoretical, don't open up even the faintest possibility for pins!

I completely forgot that you could simply buy the curses. Oops. Then it's obviously not good. When creating the card, I thought about making it only discard down to two or three cards, but I feel like that would kill the entire point of the card. Maybe it doesn't, but you could still do it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2023, 05:58:19 pm by d4mn13l »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2023, 11:48:30 am »
+2


Quote
Bluffs | Action - Victory
+2 Cards
+1 Action

1 VP
In games using this, when any one gains a Victory card, each other player draws up to 6 cards in hand

The image editor made the font all tiny, unfortunately.

I wanted some fun mechanic to turn every victory card into a party of the council-room/lost city sort. So that's the purpose of this card. The top-half is just, some victory card, and something you want in most games. A lab does that. I'm not certain of the cost... I think it could be $5, but maybe it should be $6. If I compare it to lost city, this one seems slightly better (assuming there is another village, you might prefer to have the extra point -- if there is no other village, then you have to get another lost cities in your deck as you need, and then you prefer Bluffs). But maybe not good enough to double the price point. The main reason for $6 is to make it harder to get two in one turn, although I could be convinced to move it back down to $5.

The card name is a hidden pun off of "council bluffs" a city in Iowa.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2023, 12:35:11 pm »
+4

I know this is supposed to be a weekly design contest, but I won't have time to judge until this Thursday. Just a heads up.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2023, 07:57:43 pm »
+3



Quote
Midnight Witch - $5
Night - Duration - Attack
Each other player gains a Curse.
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards, then discard a card.
---
In games using this, Curse is also a Night-Duration card with "At the start of your next turn, +1 Card, then discard a card."

A Witch variant. Non-terminal as it is a Night card, but now has a delayed Fugitive draw and Curses don't clog the deck as bad as they normally do. Was originally going to have this cost $4, but figured that would be too good. Not sure if the delayed draw 2 then discard is too weak or not. Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 08:52:49 pm by Xen3k »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2023, 10:29:33 pm »
+3


Quote
Elixir -
Treasure
+2 Cards
If it is your first Buy phase this turn, you may pay to return to your Action phase and +1 Action.
-
In game using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may discard an Action card for +.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 11:21:47 am by Ethan »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2023, 02:54:59 am »
+1


Quote
Elixir -
Treasure
+2 Cards
If it is your first Buy phase, you may pay to return to your Action phase and +1 Action.
-
In game using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may discard an Action card for +.

I assume this is supposed to be "if it is your first Buy phase this turn"? As worded, you only get the return-to-Action-phase effect if it's your first Buy phase, period.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2023, 06:12:05 am »
+3

I think Elixir makes potions too easy to get.

Turn 1. I draw Copper, Copper, Copper, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate. I discard Necropolis for +Potion and buy a Familiar.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2023, 07:07:54 am »
+3

I think Elixir makes potions too easy to get.

Turn 1. I draw Copper, Copper, Copper, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate. I discard Necropolis for +Potion and buy a Familiar.
To be fair though, Necropolis makes a bunch of stuff easy to get that shouldn't be easy otherwise.

Necro + Advance? Open with a $6.
Necro + Peril? Open with a Loot.

Necro + Woodworkers' Guild allows you to open Familiar already.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2023, 09:31:57 am »
0


Quote
Elixir -
Treasure
+2 Cards
If it is your first Buy phase, you may pay to return to your Action phase and +1 Action.
-
In game using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may discard an Action card for +.

I assume this is supposed to be "if it is your first Buy phase this turn"? As worded, you only get the return-to-Action-phase effect if it's your first Buy phase, period.
Thank you. I have corrected it.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2023, 10:49:55 am »
+4

I think Elixir makes potions too easy to get.

Turn 1. I draw Copper, Copper, Copper, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate. I discard Necropolis for +Potion and buy a Familiar.
To be fair though, Necropolis makes a bunch of stuff easy to get that shouldn't be easy otherwise.

Necro + Advance? Open with a $6.
Necro + Peril? Open with a Loot.

Necro + Woodworkers' Guild allows you to open Familiar already.

granted, but even without Necropolis, any action card is now almost strictly better than Potion, which makes Potion cards very easy to get. Which you can defend as a desired effect but I don't think it's good. I think it would make most potion cards dominate whatever game they're in.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2023, 11:59:19 am »
+1

How high are the chances that there is another Potion card in the Kingdom besides Elixir? Also, if you run a deck without a Potion in it you cannot use the Villa-style effect of Elixir and buy another Elixir at the same time which is highly dubious.
So you most likely want to run a Potion in your deck in an Elixir Kingdom.

I really like Elixir, it is a cool Treasure drawer which is anything but easy to design. I think it could be buffed though, i.e. get rid of the limitation to only only Villa effect per turn.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2023, 12:02:49 pm »
0

granted, but even without Necropolis, any action card is now almost strictly better than Potion, which makes Potion cards very easy to get. Which you can defend as a desired effect but I don't think it's good. I think it would make most potion cards dominate whatever game they're in.
I understand your criticism, my design intent did include making potion more accessible (and providing more way to use potion, also, linking the Actions theme of Alchemy), but I seem to have gone too far.
Anyway, I'd rather keep it as it is, as I can't think of the perfect way of tweaking it.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2023, 12:15:05 pm »
0

If you were wanting to reduce potion accessibility, you could raise the discard requirement -- discard two Action cards, or maybe discard an Action and some other type.
But it seems like there are some that want you to buff it and others that want you to nerf it. You're wanting to keep it as-is and I think that's totally justified. It's a cool card  :D I personally don't think you've gone too far
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2023, 01:20:57 pm »
+1

granted, but even without Necropolis, any action card is now almost strictly better than Potion, which makes Potion cards very easy to get. Which you can defend as a desired effect but I don't think it's good. I think it would make most potion cards dominate whatever game they're in.
I understand your criticism, my design intent did include making potion more accessible (and providing more way to use potion, also, linking the Actions theme of Alchemy), but I seem to have gone too far.
Anyway, I'd rather keep it as it is, as I can't think of the perfect way of tweaking it.

 :)
Here are two options that came to mind for tweaking the below line text:
Option-A: In game using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may discard an Action card, costing more than $3 or $1, for +.

Option-B: In game using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may spend $3 for +.
 :)

« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 09:11:11 am by BryGuy »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2023, 12:47:39 am »
+3

Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.



Might look strong, but it is an conditional libary, with some potential upside.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2023, 01:33:41 am »
+3

Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.



Might look strong, but it is an conditional libary, with some potential upside.

I assume it's supposed to be "play up to 3 Treasures from your hand?"
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2023, 04:09:51 am »
+1

Thank you guys for the advice. These ideas have crossed my mind before. I think,
A) discard two Action cards is too mean.
B) pay coins to get potion, actually, this is first idea of my beta version for this card, before I finalized the effect above the line. Later, I wanted to link this card with the Action theme, so I changed it to what it is now, somehow inspired by Arena.
C) discard a costly Action card, for me it's the best way to tweak it. It is difficult to say which is better compared to the current version, so I decide to keep it as it is.
D) trash an Action card, well, I have considered this. Too mean and unpleasant.
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SignError

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2023, 10:34:49 am »
+3

Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.

Might look strong, but it is an conditional libary, with some potential upside.

I assume it's supposed to be "play up to 3 Treasures from your hand?"

Also, the below-the-line part can base its wording on Duchess:

In games using this, when you gain a Victory card, gain a Copper.
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2023, 01:16:35 pm »
+3

Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.



Might look strong, but it is an conditional libary, with some potential upside.

I'd say it is a conditional double Lab, since it's nonterminal (unlike Library). So it seems very strong to me...
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2023, 01:18:04 pm »
+3

Agreed, also the comparison to Storyteller is insightful

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2023, 01:22:40 pm »
+2

Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.



Might look strong, but it is an conditional libary, with some potential upside.

I'd say it is a conditional double Lab, since it's nonterminal (unlike Library). So it seems very strong to me...
You draw one card less with every play so it becomes harder, even with a high Treasure density in your deck, to play this consistently as (Double)Lab.
I have a hard time to evaluate the strength but playing instead of discarding Treasures is a serious nerf compared to Stables.

So either this is used as a draw for pure money or as support draw (syncs quite well with DtX) in an engine. It can hardly be used as mono-draw like other Lab variants though.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2023, 03:59:04 pm »
+2

Agreed, also the comparison to Storyteller is insightful
You mean, like the comparison between Lab and DoublePeddler?
Because that is literally what the two cards convert Silvers into. And the one card is non-terminal whereas the other is a cantrip.

So beyond the superficial „do buff Treasures“ the cards play very differently.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2023, 05:19:32 pm »
+2

I brought up the comparison for its powerlevel; I agree the cards are not similar.

Using this on a Copper is 1$ better than Storyteller, and storyeller is a medium strength 5$. And you use Storyteller on Copper all the time.

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2023, 05:58:36 pm »
0

I brought up the comparison for its powerlevel; I agree the cards are not similar.

Using this on a Copper is 1$ better than Storyteller, and storyeller is a medium strength 5$. And you use Storyteller on Copper all the time.
Last time I checked, Peddler is worse than Lab.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2023, 06:19:16 pm »
+3

I brought up the comparison for its powerlevel; I agree the cards are not similar.

Using this on a Copper is 1$ better than Storyteller, and storyeller is a medium strength 5$. And you use Storyteller on Copper all the time.
Last time I checked, Peddler is worse than Lab.

When playing a Copper with Storyteller, you turn the Copper into a cantrip, not a Lab.  And Peddler is better than a vanilla cantrip.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2023, 07:44:59 pm »
+2

Submissions Closed!

Judging will occur soon.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2023, 09:54:28 pm »
+9

Results


Rundown Chapel
--
Augie279
To be honest, I don't really have much to say about this one. It doesn't have any glaring flaws as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't call it stellar either.



Spotless Village
--
czzzz
Wowza, that's a pretty massive bottom effect! I like how it makes it easier to get the top effect to trigger. It's also nice that the bottom comes on a Village so that you don't have to worry as much about being forced to trash dead Actions. Nice job on this!



Mystic Workshop
--
SignError
An unusual Workshop indeed! The Copper gaining looks like a pretty major downside until you read the bottom, and then you realize that it's actually a boon (lowercase, of course  :P). Very clever.



Loanshark
--
LibraryAdventurer
Quote
Loanshark
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards
+$1.
Each other player with less than 2 debt tokens takes 1 debt.
-
In games using this, at the start of your turn, you may discard a Treasure to gain a Silver.
Smart of you to limit the Debt it can give out. That said, I don't think the bottom is too different from Delve, and the - token is a better version of the attack imo.



Landslide
--
Aquila
Quote
Landslide - Action Attack, $5 cost.
Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse onto their Tavern mat.
-
In games using this, after a player shuffles, they put a Curse from their Tavern mat onto their deck.
A Soothsayer whose drawback doesn't make the card completely awful! Unfortunately, I do worry that it might stack too well by dumping a bunch of Curses onto people's decks all at once.



Rummager
--
silverspawn
This seems way too dependent on the presence of TFB to me. I think it would be easy to just trash your Coppers, and then it becomes "Moat, gain a Copper to your hand" for . Which is terrible. I get that you can eventually run out of cards you want to trash and might want to get a Rummager to get back good cards that were trashed, but a game state like that doesn't exactly sound like fun to me.



Contessa
--
4est
Like Shepherd, but much more interesting; and Shepherd is already a very interesting card to begin with! Brilliant submission. Very well done.



Boatswain
--
X-tra
An awesome Duration card that reduces the downside inherent to Durations (for just one Duration each turn). Limiting it to once a turn was a good call; I would've decried the bottom as being too good if it worked on all your Duration cards. I still would've given it an honorable mention at worst; I really love this card.



Spirit Market
--
LordBaphomet
A terminal Silver that can let you spike specific cards. I'll be honest and admit that I didn't like this card at first, but I like it a lot now after thinking about it more. I really like how the bottom forces you to populate the trash before you're ready to start buying from it. Unfortunately, I worry that it might be too potent at shortening the game length, and I'm also worried about potential rules issues with some copies of given cards costing different from others.



Daring Hero
--
faust
Clever how you've managed to make it make sense to have a choose one between drawing two cards or discarding that many. It seems weak to me, though. Not having any Treasures in hand is frequently quite hard to proc for the payoff (barring games where Gold isn't the best target for restriction-less Treasure-gaining).



Archangel Hades
--
sumrex
Quote
Archangel Hades
Action- Doom- Fate
5$
Choose one: Recieve the next hex;  take a Boon until the start of your next turnouEach other Player recieves it at the start of their next turn.
Choose one: Gain a gold onto your deck and +2$; gain 2 silvers to your hand; gain 5 coppers to your hand and +1 buy.

_______________
In games using this, no player can buy gold.
The bottom seems kind of tacked on, as if you just want the card to force people to use it if they want Gold. An "in games using this" effect that feels like it's only there to annoy people doesn't sound like fun. It also feels like the Copper option is only there to make the card more thematic rather than to actually improve its gameplay or make it more interesting. Lastly, I plugged this into the image generator, and it's 7 lines of microtext even without the bottom. That's a sign that it probably ought to be simplified.



Way of the Sword
--
emtzalex
The top and bottom are so unrelated to each other that it feels like you made the top and then just smacked the bottom on to make it qualify. I really like the top, but I'm afraid you don't score very well on how the top and bottom tie together, unless I'm missing something.



Factory
--
JW
Quote
Factory
- Treasure
+ and +1 Buy
You may trash a Treasure from your hand or may gain a Treasure from the trash onto your deck.
____
In games using this, at the start of your turn you may trash a Gold from your hand for +3 Cards.
The top and bottom tie together here perfectly. The top isn't too imaginative, but combined with the bottom, it makes for yet another genius submission. You guys are really making this contest hard to judge!



Landfill
--
Builder_Roberts
I used the image that uses my preferred wording. Being able to both trash and draw looks crazy, and it is, but you'll quickly run out of fuel if you want to keep using it as a Moat or Smithy. I'm tempted to say that the bottom might be too strong with too many cards, but that may not actually be true. I like it; I think it might be my favorite card of yours. Definitely at least 2nd. I also just like combos with trashing; there's a reason Dark Ages was my favorite expansion for the longest time out of all expansions, after all.



Army
--
segura
Tokens galore! (Plus a card adaptation of +Card tokens.) Going with the bottom you chose instead of "Victory cards are worth an extra VP" was definitely the right call. I do think that either bottom does go a bit too far in encouraging Victory card gaining for just , though.



City Builder & City Wall
--
BryGuy
Quote
City Builder
$5 Action
+2 Actions; You may discard a Victory card for +2 Cards.
City Wall costs $1 less with this in play, but not less than $2.
-----------
In games using this, include City Wall in the Kingdom.


Quote
City Wall
$5 Action - Victory
+1 Card, +1 Action
------------
2 Victory

A pretty meh submission. The top is made less exciting by City Wall already being a cantrip (so it only gives you 1 more card than playing the City Wall), and it's really just a far less interesting version of Shepherd imho.



Mad Scientist
--
grrgrrgrr
I think this bottom effect makes Cursers (including itself) too strong. Even without the Bridge effect, this is almost equivalent to "+1 Buy, +, +3." Which is absurd for . And most other Cursers only become even more broken.



Expel
--
xyz123
Quote
Expel
Event
$4

Exile 2 cards from your hand.
___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this, when scoring +2VP per differently named card you have in Exile
I think this compares too favorably to Banish. You can Exile differently named cards (be honest, how often do you Banish 3+ cards?), and it scores in the process.



Evangelist
--
Kingreaper
Quote
Evangelist - $4
Action - Liaison

+1 action
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face down, +2 favour. If it's face up +2 cards and you may trash a card from your hand.

___________________________________________________________________________
In games using this there is an additional ally. The normal ally applies to you only when your journey token is face up, the additional ally only when it's face down.
I've tried a card with the same concept of "use an extra Ally that's only sometimes in use" before, but this is a brilliant way of doing that while avoiding rules issues. The top is already interesting on its own, but the bottom only makes it even better. This is an amazing card.



Pre-order
--
Udzu
Sadly, this is another one I don't really know what to say about. It's not bad, but it's not great either.



Bookkeeper
--
NoMoreFun
Quote
Bookkeeper
Action - $4
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand
___________
In games using this, don't discard Actions and Treasures from your hand during Clean-Up (reveal your hand before you discard).
I think automatically Saving all your Actions and Treasures usually trivializes a lot of otherwise important decisions in this game and makes the game less interesting.



Forsaken City
--
AJL828
Like I said about trashing combos on Builder_Roberts' submission, I love discarding synergies. I really like this; it's a really cool sidegrade of Imp. I'm glad I clarified with you whether you intended to be able to play 2 of the same card; it would've been too good if you did.



Loyal Witch
--
d4mn13l
As segura pointed out, I think being able to discard opponents' hands with this makes this irredeemable. The bottom looks like it makes Cursers miserable anyway. Normally, trashing gives you a reprieve from getting Cursed. This allows you to ping-pong your Curses back to your opponents, or allows them to give you your Curses back after you trash them. No thanks!



Charcoal Burner
--
LTaco
Clever use of the bottom to limit its trashing power. That's all I have to say about it unfortunately.



Bluffs
--
anordinaryman
I think this would be fine for its price without nerfing all Victory cards.



Midnight Witch
--
Xen3k
A non-terminal Curser that gives out Curses immediately without looking like it would be miserable. Nice, that's hard to do. Good job on this!



Elixir
--
Ethan
Another one I don't really have anything to say about.



Local Stable
--
lompeluiten
Quote
Local stable $4
Action
+1 action
Play up to 3 treasure.  +1 card per treasure played this way
-
In games using this, whenever an player gains an victory card, they gain an copper.
I think punishing Victory cards in this way looks unfun. This also just isn't a very creative card imo.



Honorable Mentions (Unordered): Spotless Village by czzzz, Factory by JW, Landfill by Builder_Roberts, Army by segura, and Forsaken City by AJL828

Runners-up:
3rd place: Contessa by 4est
2nd place: Boatswain by X-tra

Winner: Evangelist by Kingreaper
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 02:18:57 am by Gubump »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2023, 01:56:48 am »
0

I brought up the comparison for its powerlevel; I agree the cards are not similar.

Using this on a Copper is 1$ better than Storyteller, and storyeller is a medium strength 5$. And you use Storyteller on Copper all the time.
Last time I checked, Peddler is worse than Lab.

When playing a Copper with Storyteller, you turn the Copper into a cantrip, not a Lab.  And Peddler is better than a vanilla cantrip.
Nonsense. You ignore that „baseline“ Storyteller is a cantrip, i.e. it draws one card more than the Stable variant:

Storyteller + Copper = +1 Action +2 Cards
Local Stable + Copper = + 1 Action + 1 Card keep the Coin from the played Copper

Lab and Peddler are the literal effects of playing either of the two cards together with one Copper.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 02:08:32 am by segura »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #176 - Game Changer
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2023, 05:32:03 am »
0

Right, the initial card. That's a good point.
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