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[AJD]

This isn't really a rules question, more like a rules observation: Frigate joins Outpost as a card that is not usually actually discarded from play during Cleanup of the last turn on which it does something. If you play Frigate, it has no effect at all on your next turn; the last turn where it does anything is your right-hand opponent's turn. But it stays in play through your turn anyway.

...Right?

[kieranmillar]

If you play Frigate, it has no effect at all on your next turn; the last turn where it does anything is your right-hand opponent's turn.

No. The card says "until the start of your next turn" so something does happen on your next turn: the attack effect ends. And it ends on your turn, not on the turn of the player to your right, so it wouldn't be discarded during their clean up.

[AJD]

That's like saying the Bridge has an effect on the turn after I play it: the cost reduction ends. Frigate's Attack effect ending doesn't constitute Frigate doing something on your next turn—that specifically constitutes Frigate not having an effect.

[GendoIkari]

That's like saying the Bridge has an effect on the turn after I play it: the cost reduction ends. Frigate's Attack effect ending doesn't constitute Frigate doing something on your next turn—that specifically constitutes Frigate not having an effect.

Well no, there’s a difference in timing between “at the end of this turn” and “at the start of next turn”. But I do think you’re right that this is the first card to rely solely on “until your next turn” as a form of “having something to do”.

[chipperMDW]

But I do think you’re right that this is the first card to rely solely on “until your next turn” as a form of “having something to do”.

"At the start of your next turn, +1 Substance."

[AJD]

That's like saying the Bridge has an effect on the turn after I play it: the cost reduction ends. Frigate's Attack effect ending doesn't constitute Frigate doing something on your next turn—that specifically constitutes Frigate not having an effect.

Well no, there’s a difference in timing between “at the end of this turn” and “at the start of next turn”. But I do think you’re right that this is the first card to rely solely on “until your next turn” as a form of “having something to do”.

True, but the end of Frigate's effect doesn't have "at the start of your next turn" timing. If it did, you'd be able to choose the order of it with respect to other "at the start of your next turn" effects. You can't, for example, remodel a card with Enlarge and then end Frigate's effect. It's just, if it's your next turn, that means Frigate is no longer doing anything.

[Ingix]

It's just, if it's your next turn, that means Frigate is no longer doing anything.

That still means it can't be discarded at the usual time in Cleanup before, as you then may not know what kind of turn by what player will happen next. Island Folk makes that possible, effects like Lich can "eat" a turn. I think it would be counterproductive to try any kind of prediction at discard-during-cleanup time what will happen, even if Island Folk didn't exist.

[AJD]

It's just, if it's your next turn, that means Frigate is no longer doing anything.

That still means it can't be discarded at the usual time in Cleanup before, as you then may not know what kind of turn by what player will happen next. Island Folk makes that possible, effects like Lich can "eat" a turn. I think it would be counterproductive to try any kind of prediction at discard-during-cleanup time what will happen, even if Island Folk didn't exist.

Sure, by all means. Just like Outpost, I suppose.

[GendoIkari]

But I do think you’re right that this is the first card to rely solely on “until your next turn” as a form of “having something to do”.

"At the start of your next turn, +1 Substance."

My second-favorite bit of Magic history, after the brief period where decks containing nothing but 1,000 Forests were considered competitive.

[Jeebus]

That still means it can't be discarded at the usual time in Cleanup before, as you then may not know what kind of turn by what player will happen next. Island Folk makes that possible, effects like Lich can "eat" a turn. I think it would be counterproductive to try any kind of prediction at discard-during-cleanup time what will happen, even if Island Folk didn't exist.

Sure, by all means. Just like Outpost, I suppose.

Why like Outpost? You discard Outpost in the Outpost turn, right?

Btw, when your right-hand player is in their Clean-up phase, their turn has not even ended yet, so why would Frigate be discarded then when it does something until your turn begins?

[GendoIkari]

That still means it can't be discarded at the usual time in Cleanup before, as you then may not know what kind of turn by what player will happen next. Island Folk makes that possible, effects like Lich can "eat" a turn. I think it would be counterproductive to try any kind of prediction at discard-during-cleanup time what will happen, even if Island Folk didn't exist.

Sure, by all means. Just like Outpost, I suppose.

Why like Outpost? You discard Outpost in the Outpost turn, right?

Btw, when your right-hand player is in their Clean-up phase, their turn has not even ended yet, so why would Frigate be discarded then when it does something until your turn begins?

He's not suggesting that Frigate should be discarded sooner. Just pointing out that Frigate and Outpost are 2 cards that stay out not because they do something next turn, but because they aren't done doing something during cleanup of the turn before your next turn.

There was a bunch of discussion/question a couple months ago about whether the Duration rule was "discarded on the last turn they do something" or "don't discard if they have something left to do during cleanup". With most Durations, those 2 rules function identically. Frigate, like Outpost, requires the second version of the rule to function; they are not actually discarded on the last turn that they do something.

[AJD]

That still means it can't be discarded at the usual time in Cleanup before, as you then may not know what kind of turn by what player will happen next. Island Folk makes that possible, effects like Lich can "eat" a turn. I think it would be counterproductive to try any kind of prediction at discard-during-cleanup time what will happen, even if Island Folk didn't exist.

Sure, by all means. Just like Outpost, I suppose.

Why like Outpost? You discard Outpost in the Outpost turn, right?

Right, but Outpost doesn't actually do anything on the Outpost turn.

[Jeebus]

He's not suggesting that Frigate should be discarded sooner. Just pointing out that Frigate and Outpost are 2 cards that stay out not because they do something next turn, but because they aren't done doing something during cleanup of the turn before your next turn.

There was a bunch of discussion/question a couple months ago about whether the Duration rule was "discarded on the last turn they do something" or "don't discard if they have something left to do during cleanup". With most Durations, those 2 rules function identically. Frigate, like Outpost, requires the second version of the rule to function; they are not actually discarded on the last turn that they do something.

Okay, I see.

The rule had actually been "don't discard in cleanup if it has something left to do" since the beginning. The phrase "discard on the last turn it does something" is/was in the rulebooks, but was never technically accurate in all cases. (It's even an early ruling that Outpost 1E stayed in play even when it didn't give you an extra turn.) I haven't seen a discussion about that recently.

There was a discussion about Cargo Ship and Garrison though, since they can cause you to do stuff after clean-up. The rule was then changed to "don't discard in cleanup if it has something left to do after this turn".