Dominion > Rules Questions
Lantern, Elder, Harbor Village, Moat
Jeebus:
Hoping that Donald can reply to this.
With Enchantress, Highwayman and Ways, and the second iteration from Reckless, you're not following the on-play instructions of the played card.
Donald has ruled that Lantern and Elder care about the on-play instructions of the played card: If you don't follow those instructions, Lantern and Elder do nothing.
According to the Plunder rulebook, Harbor Village is different somehow. It works even when you don't follow the on-play instructions of the played card. If you followed some other instructions instead of the card's on-play instructions, Harbor Village cares about those instructions.
There has been no ruling on Moat (and Lighthouse, Champion, Guardian). I assume that the general assumption has been that it's like Harbor Village.
What is the difference between Lantern and Elder, and Harbor Village and Moat? None of them refer to the played card's instructions. They all refer to the played card doing something or having some effect. It absolutely seems to me like they should all work the same.
Donald X.:
--- Quote from: Jeebus on December 29, 2022, 06:41:39 am ---Hoping that Donald can reply to this.
--- End quote ---
I'll do what I can, Jeebu.
--- Quote from: Jeebus on December 29, 2022, 06:41:39 am ---With Enchantress, Highwayman and Ways, and the second iteration from Reckless, you're not following the on-play instructions of the played card.
Donald has ruled that Lantern and Elder care about the on-play instructions of the played card: If you don't follow those instructions, Lantern and Elder do nothing.
According to the Plunder rulebook, Harbor Village is different somehow. It works even when you don't follow the on-play instructions of the played card. If you followed some other instructions instead of the card's on-play instructions, Harbor Village cares about those instructions.
--- End quote ---
The rules for Ways say: "Each Way gives Action cards an additional option: you can play the Action for what it normally does, or play it to do what the Way says to do."
So when you play a card and use Way of the Sheep to get +$2, you "played the card" to get +$2. "...Play it to do what the Way says..."
Harbor Village asks if playing the Action gave you +$, and if you used Way of the Sheep, it did. That is the logic there.
--- Quote from: Jeebus on December 29, 2022, 06:41:39 am ---There has been no ruling on Moat (and Lighthouse, Champion, Guardian). I assume that the general assumption has been that it's like Harbor Village.
--- End quote ---
I am not clear as to what the question is here. Moat happens before you decide to use a Way or not.
--- Quote from: Jeebus on December 29, 2022, 06:41:39 am ---What is the difference between Lantern and Elder, and Harbor Village and Moat? None of them refer to the played card's instructions. They all refer to the played card doing something or having some effect. It absolutely seems to me like they should all work the same.
--- End quote ---
Elder should work the same as Harbor Village. If a Way said "choose one," Elder would give you an extra choice.
Lantern is a kludgy bit of nonsense, but its instructions make no sense if you aren't doing Border Guard's text, so it only applies when you are. It's specifically talking about the text on Border Guard.
I don't imagine that's done the trick, but that's this round of answers. It is not always clear what the question is.
dz:
I think the Moat question Jeebus is asking is:
-what happens if you Moat a Reckless attack? I'm still voting for: you can only reveal Moat once, at the start of the attack, and that single reveal blocks both iterations.
-how can Moat block a Chameleon'd Witch if you aren't following the Witch's instructions?
Actually while we're asking questions about Harbor Village: if you play Harbor Village, then Steward for +cards, then you Royal Carriage the Steward for +coins, does Harbor Village give +$1? I think not, as the Royal Carriage is a separate play. Meanwhile if you did the same thing with Reckless Steward, then I think Harbor Village should work.
GendoIkari:
Yea with Moat, I think the question boils down to “what is the ‘it’ in ‘to be unaffected by it’?” I think Jeebus is thinking it means “unaffected by the card’s instructions”. But with Chameleon and Reckless, you aren’t following the card’s instructions.
If we look at the natural reading of the sentence, “it” seems to be “the playing of the attack card”. But where does that end exactly? If Cultist 1 plays Cultist 2 as part of playing Cultist 1, Cultist 2 can still affect you (unless you reveal Moat a second time when Cultist 2 is played). So what is the limit of the scope of what Moat protects you from?
Wizard_Amul:
I'm not too sure about Moat vs the other cards Jeebus asked about, but like Donald X said, I thought Moat was pretty clear. Maybe I'm forgetting about some other ruling, but Moat doesn't care what the card says or which instructions you're following, just that you play a card with the type "Attack" on the bottom--since Moat says "first," it doesn't matter what happens with the Attack card once you put the Attack card in your play area, because you reveal the Moat before reading any instructions (wherever the instructions are coming from). So, for the Reckless attack, I think it should be what dz said--you can only reveal Moat once, at the start of the attack, and that single reveal blocks both iterations; you only put the attack card in play once, and then how many times you follow which instructions doesn't matter. This also agrees with the Cultist scenario by GendoIkari--even though Cultist 2 is put into play by Cultist 1, it the the playing of the Cultist 2 attack card that allows Moat to react to it, like how Moat can react to the playing of any other attack card.
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