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Author Topic: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...  (Read 5752 times)

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Quadell

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If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« on: April 06, 2012, 09:05:06 pm »
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So if Secret Chamber is the Bane card in a game with Young Witch, and I am attacked, can I first use Secret Chamber's reaction ability (to draw 2 and put 2 back on my library) and then reveal the Secret Chamber to prevent the attack from affecting me?
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Tables

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 09:20:13 pm »
+3

Yes. Why wouldn't you be able to?

In fact, you need to reveal the Secret Chamber a second time, during the bane phase, if you want to avoid getting that curse. This is because Secret Chamber reacts to an attack being played, but revealing a bane happens strictly later. If you put your Secret Chamber on your deck, then you can't reveal it as the bane anymore.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Quadell

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 01:44:55 pm »
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Thanks, that's how I thought it worked, but I wanted to be sure.
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Grujah

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 09:41:05 pm »
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You can also reveal it to prevent getting a curse, then reveal it again, pick 2, and put SC on deck, so you can do the same next turn.
Also, loved the MTG reference.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 09:56:01 pm by Grujah »
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Brando Commando

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 10:13:22 pm »
+4

From the Cornucopia rulebook: "When you play Young Witch, after you draw 2 cards and discard 2 cards, each other player may reveal a Bane card from his hand; if he does not, he gains a Curse."

"If Secret Chamber (from Dominion: Intrigue) is the Bane card, first you can reveal it for its Reaction ability, and then, if it's still in your hand, you can reveal it to avoid getting a Curse."

The way I read this, Grujah's comment is wrong; the Bane revealing phase would happen too late for you to reveal SC then use SC's ability to put it in your draw deck. I believe Reactions that happen on the play of an attack (like SC) occur when the card is played but before it's instructions are executed (which matters a lot for things like Pirate ship and Minion) -- but, as in the part above, the ability to reveal a Bane card clearly happens after Young Witch's executed instructions.

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Deadlock39

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 06:56:10 pm »
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Yes, Grujah's comment is incorrect.  The Bane card is revealed when the card text indicates which is strictly after the time when the card is played (reactions my be revealed).  If you reveal SC, and put it back on the deck, it is no longer in your hand when it must be revealed to block the Curse, and cannot be.  If you try this out on Isotropic it will correctly not allow you to block the Curse if you put SC back on the deck.

Grujah

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 09:57:07 pm »
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Actually makes sense. Sowwy.  ::)
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GigaKnight

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 06:09:28 pm »
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I don't like this rule at all.  Is there a rule saying that you have to reveal Moat after you reveal Secret Chamber?  No?  Then why make a special rule for the Bane card?  It seems like the general rule of "the active player decides the order to resolve things" fully encompasses this scenario while allowing for creative play.  The limitation feels arbitrary and inconsistent, at least at first glance.

EDIT: I just read Deadlock39's comment and that does make sense with the wording on the card, but slightly different wording would have avoided this special case, no?  "When you play a Young Witch, each other player gains a curse unless he reveals a Bane card from his hand."  Does this create any weirdness that I'm missing?

EDIT EDIT: Well, my wording would make Young Witch stronger in that you'd get to see who had Bane cards before you discarded.  Not sure that's a bad thing, though.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:17:40 pm by GigaKnight »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 06:17:54 pm »
0

It's perfectly consistent. The rules for resolving cards have always been to do as much as you can in order from top to bottom, and Young Witch states "+2 Cards. Discard 2 cards" before it states "Each other player may reveal a Bane card...", so that's the order it happens in.
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Deadlock39

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2012, 08:08:01 pm »
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Yeah, it would be a mess to make it work any other way.  The setup rules would have to say that the Bane card becomes a reaction card with "virtual text" that says "When another player plays a Young Witch card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by Young Witch."  As it is, the rules for the Bane card are part of resolving Young Witch, and have to occur after reaction cards.

Jeebus

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 03:28:54 am »
+1

Yeah, it would be a mess to make it work any other way.  The setup rules would have to say that the Bane card becomes a reaction card with "virtual text" that says "When another player plays a Young Witch card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by Young Witch."

Not really.

+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards. Each other player gains a Curse.
---
When you play this, each other player may reveal a Bane card from his hand. If he does, he is unaffected by this.
---
Setup: <as before>


It would be more text though.

GigaKnight

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 02:02:34 pm »
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What Jeebus said.  At first glance, most people already assume it works like a Reaction, so the concept is intuitive and would also allow for more creative play (interacting Reactions).  It's a moot point since Donald X & Co decided to go the other way, but I'd like to hear why they did.  The best reason I can come up with is space on the card, but that seems circumventable.
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Donald X.

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 05:37:37 pm »
+2

What Jeebus said.  At first glance, most people already assume it works like a Reaction, so the concept is intuitive and would also allow for more creative play (interacting Reactions).  It's a moot point since Donald X & Co decided to go the other way, but I'd like to hear why they did.  The best reason I can come up with is space on the card, but that seems circumventable.
I think letting you reveal the Bane prior to Young Witch doing anything is way more complicated, and anyway I am specifically avoiding making cards with two dividing lines (the German Lighthouse has two, but that's a mistake on their part).
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GigaKnight

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Re: If Secret Chamber is the Bane...
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 05:28:26 pm »
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What Jeebus said.  At first glance, most people already assume it works like a Reaction, so the concept is intuitive and would also allow for more creative play (interacting Reactions).  It's a moot point since Donald X & Co decided to go the other way, but I'd like to hear why they did.  The best reason I can come up with is space on the card, but that seems circumventable.
I think letting you reveal the Bane prior to Young Witch doing anything is way more complicated, and anyway I am specifically avoiding making cards with two dividing lines (the German Lighthouse has two, but that's a mistake on their part).

And now I know. :)  Thanks!
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